Kavanaugh

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

one thing that really knocked me off my chair is "of course there's a chance Ford is a victim". a chance? a CHANCE?

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

You could say the same about Weinstein, Cosby, Spacey, Trump, etc, etc ..... If anyone thinks not having heard about accusations in the media before a certain point in time indicates possible innocence at this point or is a solid argument for a possible conspiracy, I would suggest they haven't been paying much attention to #metoo and the issues it's helped bring to light.

Yes, there is indeed a process before someone is considered guilty.... in a court of law. As has been discussed a lot already, that simply cannot be the only method used to deal with sex predators/accusations, for many very good reasons. Bringing evidence to the police and bringing charges against the person is usually not an option in cases like this. We absolutely cannot turn to that black and white perspective with this issue. It doesn't work and it would fuck over the vast majority of accusers/victims. That's why Trump is advocating for the same thing.

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

This is jacked up. Renate Alumni reference is really messed up

This guy is a total schmuck. The people that I knew like him in high school sure as hell don't belong on the supreme court.

How does a guy like this make it to a supreme court nomination hearing with all this garbage in his closet. There are so many complaints about cops who shouldn't be cops and they go through months of background checks where classmates, co-workers, roommates and relatives are interviewed in person and this stuff is properly vetted. All these red flags means no. Suck it up and nominate someone else.

Yeah I knew guys just like this...he's only a few years older than me.  That yearbook reference is pretty damning if you ask me.  I hope they ask him lots of questions about that. (i.e. what did that refer to?  surely more than a kiss right?)

edit: to me this alumni reference backs up the claim that Avenatti has hinted at...that there are women who were victims of "conquests" by Kavanaugh and his friends.  They would get them drunk/drugged and then take advantage of them.  That hits close to home because my daughter was a victim of that and that guy is lucky I didn't beat his head in with a baseball bat....I seriously considered it.

I'm not sure how you stopped yourself.

I'm not either. 

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

You could say the same about Weinstein, Cosby, Spacey, Trump, etc, etc ..... If anyone thinks not having heard about accusations in the media before a certain point in time indicates possible innocence at this point or is a solid argument for a possible conspiracy, I would suggest they haven't been paying much attention to #metoo and the issues it's helped bring to light.

Yes, there is indeed a process before someone is considered guilty.... in a court of law. As has been discussed a lot already, that simply cannot be the only method used to deal with sex predators/accusations, for many very good reasons. Bringing evidence to the police and bringing charges against the person is usually not an option in cases like this. We absolutely cannot turn to that black and white perspective with this issue. It doesn't work and it would fuck over the vast majority of accusers/victims. That's why Trump is advocating for the same thing.

I can’t bold things easily with my phone and I’m too lazy to do so anyway so I just quoted your whole post, but why can’t we correctly use the legal system with regards to this issue?  If it’s a criminal act youre suggesting, that’s how it is done.  One can’t simply decide when the constitution works for them and when it doesn’t.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/24/business/brett-kavanaugh-yearbook-renate.html

This is jacked up. Renate Alumni reference is really messed up

This guy is a total schmuck. The people that I knew like him in high school sure as hell don't belong on the supreme court.

How does a guy like this make it to a supreme court nomination hearing with all this garbage in his closet. There are so many complaints about cops who shouldn't be cops and they go through months of background checks where classmates, co-workers, roommates and relatives are interviewed in person and this stuff is properly vetted. All these red flags means no. Suck it up and nominate someone else.

Yeah I knew guys just like this...he's only a few years older than me.  That yearbook reference is pretty damning if you ask me.  I hope they ask him lots of questions about that. (i.e. what did that refer to?  surely more than a kiss right?)

edit: to me this alumni reference backs up the claim that Avenatti has hinted at...that there are women who were victims of "conquests" by Kavanaugh and his friends.  They would get them drunk/drugged and then take advantage of them.  That hits close to home because my daughter was a victim of that and that guy is lucky I didn't beat his head in with a baseball bat....I seriously considered it.

I'm not sure how you stopped yourself.

I'm not either. 

It was hard.  It happened right around this time of year.  I knew where the kid lived (in an apartment with his buddies...turns out his parents had kicked him out for being such a douche but they still supported him...he's actually in the military now) and the initial thought was that my son and I would "visit" him on Halloween. It would have been perfect to knock on his door in costume and just beat the living fuck out of him.

After charges were filed the police scared the shit out of him.  The police seemed to be pretty convinced that it wasn't a rape...just a sexual assault which the hospital checkup seemed to support.

even so. I have often thought of this scenario and that I hope to god neither of my daughters has to go through something like that, even though it seems statistically the deck is stacked against them. 

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

oftenreading said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

Maybe go back and read the thread where issues like this are discussed before just churning the same excuses again. 

Excuses?  Sorry, but I’m living in the world of facts, and unfortunately for her, having someone make a claim isn’t a fact.  Neither is a an eye witness unless they can prove what they’re saying.  I’ll believe a rape test, physical evidence from the scene, photos, videos, etc.  A great example is Cosby- there was a LOT of evidence to convict him, and convict and punish him they have done.  Our justice system isn’t based on claims, it’s based on evidence, and it always will be.  It’s not nice to those who decide not to come forward when these acts happen, but that’s how it works.

have you read this thread though? As others and myself have mentioned, there are very good reasons why you can't just rely on facts they way you're suggesting, and there is a tons of info out there that you could go through to understand why that is in fact NOT how it works. Are you planning on just ignoring all of it?

As has also been pointed out, the confirmation hearings are not a court of law. They're basically a job interview. Since when do job interviews require facts that stand up in a court of law before the applicant is rejected?

I haven’t read the thread, and I don’t plan on it- fill me in on the reasons you can’t go through the legal process.  I have empathy for the accused in these situations as much as I do for the victim- both are human beings until the gavel hits the bench.  You can’t go around making claims about people and disrupting or maybe worse their careers or personal
lives without repercussion- that’s why the legal system exists- so both parties are protected and we don’t have a Wild West of no rule and everyone just shouts over everyone.

100% agree with the fact that this is similar to a job interview, you’re absolutely correct.  That’s part of my point, it’s not the place for this type of claim.  If I were interviewing someone (and I’ve done hundreds of them) and someone came to me telling me that a candidate if spoken with had raped someone (but there was no court case) I would disregard it because they need to go to the police, not me.

HughFreakingDillon said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

oftenreading said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

Maybe go back and read the thread where issues like this are discussed before just churning the same excuses again. 

Excuses?  Sorry, but I’m living in the world of facts, and unfortunately for her, having someone make a claim isn’t a fact.  Neither is a an eye witness unless they can prove what they’re saying.  I’ll believe a rape test, physical evidence from the scene, photos, videos, etc.  A great example is Cosby- there was a LOT of evidence to convict him, and convict and punish him they have done.  Our justice system isn’t based on claims, it’s based on evidence, and it always will be.  It’s not nice to those who decide not to come forward when these acts happen, but that’s how it works.

have you read this thread though? As others and myself have mentioned, there are very good reasons why you can't just rely on facts they way you're suggesting, and there is a tons of info out there that you could go through to understand why that is in fact NOT how it works. Are you planning on just ignoring all of it?

As has also been pointed out, the confirmation hearings are not a court of law. They're basically a job interview. Since when do job interviews require facts that stand up in a court of law before the applicant is rejected?

I haven’t read the thread, and I don’t plan on it- fill me in on the reasons you can’t go through the legal process.  I have empathy for the accused in these situations as much as I do for the victim- both are human beings until the gavel hits the bench.  You can’t go around making claims about people and disrupting or maybe worse their careers or personal
lives without repercussion- that’s why the legal system exists- so both parties are protected and we don’t have a Wild West of no rule and everyone just shouts over everyone.

100% agree with the fact that this is similar to a job interview, you’re absolutely correct.  That’s part of my point, it’s not the place for this type of claim.  If I were interviewing someone (and I’ve done hundreds of them) and someone came to me telling me that a candidate if spoken with had raped someone (but there was no court case) I would disregard it because they need to go to the police, not me.

if you can't be bothered to read the thread, I can't be bothered to respond to you. 

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

oftenreading said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

Maybe go back and read the thread where issues like this are discussed before just churning the same excuses again. 

Excuses?  Sorry, but I’m living in the world of facts, and unfortunately for her, having someone make a claim isn’t a fact.  Neither is a an eye witness unless they can prove what they’re saying.  I’ll believe a rape test, physical evidence from the scene, photos, videos, etc.  A great example is Cosby- there was a LOT of evidence to convict him, and convict and punish him they have done.  Our justice system isn’t based on claims, it’s based on evidence, and it always will be.  It’s not nice to those who decide not to come forward when these acts happen, but that’s how it works.

have you read this thread though? As others and myself have mentioned, there are very good reasons why you can't just rely on facts they way you're suggesting, and there is a tons of info out there that you could go through to understand why that is in fact NOT how it works. Are you planning on just ignoring all of it?

As has also been pointed out, the confirmation hearings are not a court of law. They're basically a job interview. Since when do job interviews require facts that stand up in a court of law before the applicant is rejected?

I haven’t read the thread, and I don’t plan on it- fill me in on the reasons you can’t go through the legal process.  I have empathy for the accused in these situations as much as I do for the victim- both are human beings until the gavel hits the bench.  You can’t go around making claims about people and disrupting or maybe worse their careers or personal
lives without repercussion- that’s why the legal system exists- so both parties are protected and we don’t have a Wild West of no rule and everyone just shouts over everyone.

100% agree with the fact that this is similar to a job interview, you’re absolutely correct.  That’s part of my point, it’s not the place for this type of claim.  If I were interviewing someone (and I’ve done hundreds of them) and someone came to me telling me that a candidate if spoken with had raped someone (but there was no court case) I would disregard it because they need to go to the police, not me.

tbergs said:

Anyone that ignorant is either living in a silo or just troooooooooooooolling.

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

PJ_Soul said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

oftenreading said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Interesting to remember that no one thought ANY of this through this guy’s last 30 years in his career.  Law school, civil court, DC appeals court, nothing.  None of his friends were wanted for assault, none were even questioned.  Not even the guy who helped him supposedly drug and have sex with women, none of the folks who signed his yearbook with Rennet or whatever the word is in there were even asked about assaults.  not a peep.  Now they’re suddenly like “oh, THAT Brett Kavanaugh?!?”

Just saying that before all of the conspiracists start throwing out crazy stuff, and before we all try to attack and ruin someone’s personal life or career because we don’t agree with their politics or hate Trump, be human beings first.  There’s a process before someone is considered guilty in this country, let’s go through that first.  

By the way, in case people forgot like it seems they did about Brett for the last 30 years, the process doesn’t include a circus hearing like we have planned on Thursday, or even an FBI investigation.  It involves bringing evidence to the police, and bringing charges against the person you’re accusing.  Not writing a letter to a senator.  

Again, I just want to pump the conspiracy breaks here.  There’s of course a chance Ford is a victim.  There’s also a chance this another Duke Lacrosse team.

Maybe go back and read the thread where issues like this are discussed before just churning the same excuses again. 

Excuses?  Sorry, but I’m living in the world of facts, and unfortunately for her, having someone make a claim isn’t a fact.  Neither is a an eye witness unless they can prove what they’re saying.  I’ll believe a rape test, physical evidence from the scene, photos, videos, etc.  A great example is Cosby- there was a LOT of evidence to convict him, and convict and punish him they have done.  Our justice system isn’t based on claims, it’s based on evidence, and it always will be.  It’s not nice to those who decide not to come forward when these acts happen, but that’s how it works.

have you read this thread though? As others and myself have mentioned, there are very good reasons why you can't just rely on facts they way you're suggesting, and there is a tons of info out there that you could go through to understand why that is in fact NOT how it works. Are you planning on just ignoring all of it?

As has also been pointed out, the confirmation hearings are not a court of law. They're basically a job interview. Since when do job interviews require facts that stand up in a court of law before the applicant is rejected?

I haven’t read the thread, and I don’t plan on it- fill me in on the reasons you can’t go through the legal process.  I have empathy for the accused in these situations as much as I do for the victim- both are human beings until the gavel hits the bench.  You can’t go around making claims about people and disrupting or maybe worse their careers or personal
lives without repercussion- that’s why the legal system exists- so both parties are protected and we don’t have a Wild West of no rule and everyone just shouts over everyone.

100% agree with the fact that this is similar to a job interview, you’re absolutely correct.  That’s part of my point, it’s not the place for this type of claim.  If I were interviewing someone (and I’ve done hundreds of them) and someone came to me telling me that a candidate if spoken with had raped someone (but there was no court case) I would disregard it because they need to go to the police, not me.