Police abuse

1102104106107108

Comments

  • dignindignin Posts: 6,639
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Care to answer my previous question?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Care to answer my previous question?
    You’re asking how I came up with the millions of encounters? I didn’t answer it because I don’t know how to. Its widely reported how many cops are out there, I didn’t think it needed an explanation. It’s common knowledge and basic math to get to the number I quoted you. It’s usually reported about 600,000 police in the country. Police departments report about 1/3 to 1/4 are “street cops.” The only stat that isn’t regularly reported and common knowledge is how many of those report to work every day, but based on scheduling I’d guess about half hit the street at some point during the day. So you’re looking at about 75,000 cops on the conservative estimate on the street every single day. Depending on what you consider police interacting with others that can range from a few dozen a day to literally hundreds. If you count just who a cop speaks to filing out reports and writing tickets it’s a dozen or two on a slow day. If you count everyone he sees and makes a decision to stop for not signaling, speeding, and countless other potential reasons to start an interactions it is literally hundreds of opportunities each cop has every day. Let’s go with the low conservative number of just a dozen. That’s still about a million people who interact with a cop every day. 
    Now out of those million daily interactions, how many result in harassment or worse? Very, very few in comparison.

  • dignindignin Posts: 6,639
    mace1229 said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Care to answer my previous question?
    You’re asking how I came up with the millions of encounters? I didn’t answer it because I don’t know how to. Its widely reported how many cops are out there, I didn’t think it needed an explanation. It’s common knowledge and basic math to get to the number I quoted you. It’s usually reported about 600,000 police in the country. Police departments report about 1/3 to 1/4 are “street cops.” The only stat that isn’t regularly reported and common knowledge is how many of those report to work every day, but based on scheduling I’d guess about half hit the street at some point during the day. So you’re looking at about 75,000 cops on the conservative estimate on the street every single day. Depending on what you consider police interacting with others that can range from a few dozen a day to literally hundreds. If you count just who a cop speaks to filing out reports and writing tickets it’s a dozen or two on a slow day. If you count everyone he sees and makes a decision to stop for not signaling, speeding, and countless other potential reasons to start an interactions it is literally hundreds of opportunities each cop has every day. Let’s go with the low conservative number of just a dozen. That’s still about a million people who interact with a cop every day. 
    Now out of those million daily interactions, how many result in harassment or worse? Very, very few in comparison.

    That's not what I asked for.

    I quoted the part where you said "My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it". 

    I would like to see those statistics.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 17,459
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Care to answer my previous question?
    You’re asking how I came up with the millions of encounters? I didn’t answer it because I don’t know how to. Its widely reported how many cops are out there, I didn’t think it needed an explanation. It’s common knowledge and basic math to get to the number I quoted you. It’s usually reported about 600,000 police in the country. Police departments report about 1/3 to 1/4 are “street cops.” The only stat that isn’t regularly reported and common knowledge is how many of those report to work every day, but based on scheduling I’d guess about half hit the street at some point during the day. So you’re looking at about 75,000 cops on the conservative estimate on the street every single day. Depending on what you consider police interacting with others that can range from a few dozen a day to literally hundreds. If you count just who a cop speaks to filing out reports and writing tickets it’s a dozen or two on a slow day. If you count everyone he sees and makes a decision to stop for not signaling, speeding, and countless other potential reasons to start an interactions it is literally hundreds of opportunities each cop has every day. Let’s go with the low conservative number of just a dozen. That’s still about a million people who interact with a cop every day. 
    Now out of those million daily interactions, how many result in harassment or worse? Very, very few in comparison.

    That's not what I asked for.

    I quoted the part where you said "My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it". 

    I would like to see those statistics.
    You won’t ever see them there statistics. They don’t exist.
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    dignin said:
    mace1229 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mace1229 said:
    I don't think anyone should be hassled without cause. My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it.

    You are right.  Statistically, there's no way that is true.  But what if we amend the sentence: if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not if you are white.
    I would agree with that.
    I think it can be explained (not necessarily justified, but explained without calling cops racist).
    Can we agree that there is more crime in among blacks? That is a commonly accepted statistic. That accounts for some, but not all of the difference.
    Some of it is bad cops and improper training. But I think there is another, more common reason.

    It is my personal belief that as a result of that difference in crime, cops can be more likely to be cautious/suspicious of blacks. Also Picture all of protesters who shouted out things like "only good cop is a dead cop," and all the ambushes on cops the last few years. The majority of those have been black, have they not? To expect cops to go into those neighborhoods and not be impacted by that is unlikely (again, not justified, just human nature to be affected by that.).
    Because the above is true, it leads people to exaggerate that truth.  People do believe the original form of my statement that you amended, that they are better or safer by not cooperating. This false belief puts everyone in more danger.
    Not to mention that the relation between police and the black communities is probably the worst, that would also lead to higher tensions and resisting that would escalate more quickly and lead to altercations that would otherwise not have occurred. 
    I guess my point is there are so many more obvious conclusions to jump to before you get to cops are racist that so many have claimed. 
    Care to answer my previous question?
    You’re asking how I came up with the millions of encounters? I didn’t answer it because I don’t know how to. Its widely reported how many cops are out there, I didn’t think it needed an explanation. It’s common knowledge and basic math to get to the number I quoted you. It’s usually reported about 600,000 police in the country. Police departments report about 1/3 to 1/4 are “street cops.” The only stat that isn’t regularly reported and common knowledge is how many of those report to work every day, but based on scheduling I’d guess about half hit the street at some point during the day. So you’re looking at about 75,000 cops on the conservative estimate on the street every single day. Depending on what you consider police interacting with others that can range from a few dozen a day to literally hundreds. If you count just who a cop speaks to filing out reports and writing tickets it’s a dozen or two on a slow day. If you count everyone he sees and makes a decision to stop for not signaling, speeding, and countless other potential reasons to start an interactions it is literally hundreds of opportunities each cop has every day. Let’s go with the low conservative number of just a dozen. That’s still about a million people who interact with a cop every day. 
    Now out of those million daily interactions, how many result in harassment or worse? Very, very few in comparison.

    That's not what I asked for.

    I quoted the part where you said "My point was with literally millions of police interactions every day, the media and anti-cop crowd would have you believe if you are black you are more likely to get hassled, beat or shot than not. That is simply not true, the statistics prove it". 

    I would like to see those statistics.
    I beleieve I did just answer your question. With police encounters in the millions daily, assuming even just 10% are with blacks, if blacks were likely to be hassled than not you’d see tens of thousands of case every day of police abuse. That just simply isn’t the case. The fact that there are not abuse cases in the thousands daily suggests that you’re more likely to not be hassled.
    Are you suggesting that blacks are more often hassled than not? That if your black you have a better chance of being mistreated than to be treated fairly?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,185
    edited April 10
    I don't think you're going to find any statistics or evidence where blacks/minorities don't feel more targeted, whether or not the interaction was initiated legally isn't really relevant. It's more of the fact that they perceive, and several studies back up that perception, police are more likely to stop, detain and engage them in general. If the inherent bias is what led to the interaction no data is going to be able to determine that, but I think we've seen enough evidence that it exists. While several of those interaction don't end up in harassment, beating or other abuse from an external perspective, doesn't mean there wasn't some unconscious bias in play from the onset which is only being felt by the non-cop part of the equation.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/10/30/560382301/poll-6-in-10-black-americans-say-theyve-been-unfairly-stopped-by-police
    http://news.gallup.com/poll/3421/racial-profiling-seen-widespread-particularly-among-young-black-men.aspx

    On the flip side, you then have the police feeling like they are being treated unfairly. Perception is reality for all sides and continues the struggles to some middle ground and improved relations.

    http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/25/most-officers-say-the-media-treat-police-unfairly/
    Post edited by tbergs on
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,471
    Shocker.  Murder is OK if you're a cop.

    Cop won’t be charged in “swatting” death of Kansas man

    Victim’s family is “devastated” by the decision, their lawyer says.



    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/04/cop-wont-be-charged-in-swatting-death-of-kansas-man/


  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 5,185
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    edited April 27
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I think it was the safest move he could make to protect his life from these assholes.

    Maybe if Eric Garner had done some pretending he would still be alive.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    edited April 27
    Resisting the entire time? Are you fucking kidding?
    You condone this thug behavior don't you??

    I suppose the only proper thing he could have done would be to promptly fall on his own head.
    Post edited by rgambs on
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I don't know if you meant it that way, but this reminds me of muskydan and his fond recollections of "bumpy rides".
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 17,459
    Seems to me Toronto cops have much bigger balls than the average US cop.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,157
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    Just saw this. More crazy excessive force. 

    Any background to what happened before police involvement? 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    Just saw this. More crazy excessive force. 

    Any background to what happened before police involvement? 
    I haven't seen any, the police initially declined to provide it and I haven't seen a follow-up.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    I don't find it to be relevant at all.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014
    rgambs said:
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I think it was the safest move he could make to protect his life from these assholes.

    Maybe if Eric Garner had done some pretending he would still be alive.
    Eric Garner died of a heart attack. The media liked the hype of reporting it as being choked though.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I think it was the safest move he could make to protect his life from these assholes.

    Maybe if Eric Garner had done some pretending he would still be alive.
    Eric Garner died of a heart attack. The media liked the hype of reporting it as being choked though.
    I never heard it reported as choked to death.  I always heard it reported accurately as heart attack due to chokehold.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    mace1229 said:

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
    He was handcuffed and presenting no reasonable semblance of a threat.  What else matters?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I think it was the safest move he could make to protect his life from these assholes.

    Maybe if Eric Garner had done some pretending he would still be alive.
    Eric Garner died of a heart attack. The media liked the hype of reporting it as being choked though.
    I never heard it reported as choked to death.  I always heard it reported accurately as heart attack due to chokehold.

    Heart attack due to chokehold? I never realized the chokehold was one of the risk factors for a heart attack.

    As for the recent video you posted... I'd like to see a bit of context as well. It looks bad, but some context might help.

    Police need to be reasonable, but I'm hoping people here aren't expecting police to treat criminals like kindergarten children that need timeouts.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
    He was handcuffed and presenting no reasonable semblance of a threat.  What else matters?
    I just need more. I can’t defend or condemn what the cops did without knowing more. There would be circumstances where what the cops did was justified, and many where it was not. I’m just not a fan of partial videos without any story and creating a judgement from that.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 17,459
    Do you need more than Randy Paul endorsing Team Trump Treason after Randstanding to send an American to Saudi Arabia, to I guess be tortured, put on trial or imprisoned? Talk about police abuse? Geeze, I guess our system of justice doesn’t work for everyone? Only “THEY” go free. Putin on the ritz got a go fund me site going yet?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    tbergs said:
    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    You believe that unconscious bit?That's an interesting video and a half-assed "I'm unsconcious" job by the suspect, but I call bullshit. The cop's hand doesn't go over his throat or windpipe, it's on the area between the should/neck and being applied to keep him under control. He was resisting the entire time. Speaking from experience, I had someone go as far as pretending they were unconscious to where they made us carry him to the back of the squad and lay him on the seat. He then took it one step further and rolled off the seat on purpose and we had to unwedge him from between the cage and the seat. That's where a sternum rub comes in handy.
    I think it was the safest move he could make to protect his life from these assholes.

    Maybe if Eric Garner had done some pretending he would still be alive.
    Eric Garner died of a heart attack. The media liked the hype of reporting it as being choked though.
    I never heard it reported as choked to death.  I always heard it reported accurately as heart attack due to chokehold.

    Heart attack due to chokehold? I never realized the chokehold was one of the risk factors for a heart attack.

    As for the recent video you posted... I'd like to see a bit of context as well. It looks bad, but some context might help.

    Police need to be reasonable, but I'm hoping people here aren't expecting police to treat criminals like kindergarten children that need timeouts.
    You are clearly not a medical professional.

    I expect police not to be thugs.  You expect them to "rough them up a little" like Trump does.  Sad.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
    He was handcuffed and presenting no reasonable semblance of a threat.  What else matters?
    I just need more. I can’t defend or condemn what the cops did without knowing more. There would be circumstances where what the cops did was justified, and many where it was not. I’m just not a fan of partial videos without any story and creating a judgement from that.
    What circumstances?  Please explain to me the circumstances that lead to a handcuffed individual who isn't resisting needing to be slammed on their head.  If he was a violent threat he wouldn't have been handcuffed on his feet, he would be on the ground and he would go directly into the cruiser.

    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    And, if we are going to split hairs on Eric Garner, the medical examiners report was that it was a homicide due to compression asphyxia.  I only ever heard the police claim heart attack.  I wonder why?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    ThirtyBills and Trump, like minds?


    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 3,014
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
    He was handcuffed and presenting no reasonable semblance of a threat.  What else matters?
    I just need more. I can’t defend or condemn what the cops did without knowing more. There would be circumstances where what the cops did was justified, and many where it was not. I’m just not a fan of partial videos without any story and creating a judgement from that.
    What circumstances?  Please explain to me the circumstances that lead to a handcuffed individual who isn't resisting needing to be slammed on their head.  If he was a violent threat he wouldn't have been handcuffed on his feet, he would be on the ground and he would go directly into the cruiser.

    But we don’t know any of that. Maybe he was handucced on the ground and got up. Who knows what happened. You and I certainly don’t, we’re only given a clip that begins about 2 seconds before he was slammed and nothing that lead up to that, but we’re asked to make judgements anyway.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,525
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:

    rgambs said:
    Just another "rare incident" caught on camera.

    This impartial video does nothing for me. If I had the rest of the story I could form an opinion on this incident. But I have no idea of the cops were called because he was a violent threat and refused orders to lay on the ground, or if he was just J-walking. One case I’d say it’s justified and the other the cops should be fired and looked into for assault.
    He was handcuffed and presenting no reasonable semblance of a threat.  What else matters?
    I just need more. I can’t defend or condemn what the cops did without knowing more. There would be circumstances where what the cops did was justified, and many where it was not. I’m just not a fan of partial videos without any story and creating a judgement from that.
    What circumstances?  Please explain to me the circumstances that lead to a handcuffed individual who isn't resisting needing to be slammed on their head.  If he was a violent threat he wouldn't have been handcuffed on his feet, he would be on the ground and he would go directly into the cruiser.

    But we don’t know any of that. Maybe he was handucced on the ground and got up. Who knows what happened. You and I certainly don’t, we’re only given a clip that begins about 2 seconds before he was slammed and nothing that lead up to that, but we’re asked to make judgements anyway.
    Quite the burden of proof you are laying on a citizen with the right to due process.  
    It comes off like desperation, just dying to find a way to excuse the behavior and then copping out with a refusal to pass judgement when that fails.

    I'm willing to admit there are extremely unlikely circumstances that warranted this use of force, but those circumstances could only arise from poor police work.  If he was a violent threat he should have been handled properly, but that's quite a stretch given that he wasn't charged with any crime that occurred prior to his confrontation with police.  Every sign points to police who felt disrespected and sought to put this black man in his place.  Classic story supported by the available facts and any other concoction is a stretch that shows bias.  
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
Sign In or Register to comment.