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Police abuse

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  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,303
    edited September 2020
    mace1229 said:
    I would imagine there will be changes that involve restrictions on no knock warrants, and video of all warrants. Really no reason to not have video, if not body cameras you could easily have 1 officer video with a phone, because isn't there some dispute about making an announcement when breaking in?
    Rand Paul actually introduced legislation to ban no-knock warrants called the Justice For Breonna Taylor act. 

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3955

    And following the RNC, "protesters" harassed him in the street chanting "say her name" at him. Just ignorance beyond belief. 
    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,559
    edited September 2020
    I'm not too up on the story either, to be honest.  What was the warrant related to?  Drugs?  Race aside (to whatever degree that's possible), there's nothing worse than cops busting down doors and endangering lives because of fucking drugs. Legalize 'em all and then tax and regulate 'em.
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    mace1229 said:
    I would imagine there will be changes that involve restrictions on no knock warrants, and video of all warrants. Really no reason to not have video, if not body cameras you could easily have 1 officer video with a phone, because isn't there some dispute about making an announcement when breaking in?
    Rand Paul actually introduced legislation to ban no-knock warrants called the Justice For Breonna Taylor act. 

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/3955

    And following the RNC, "protesters" harassed him in the street chanting "say her name" at him. Just ignorance beyond belief. 
    Ha yes, I remember that. Forgot about the bill until you brought it up. 
    I disagree about banning all no knock warrants, I could see times where they are needed for the safety of the cops. Like a known violent criminal who has already killed. But a case like this I don't see how it was necessary, so there needs ot be stronger requirements for a no knock warrant. 
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    edited September 2020
    OnWis97 said:
    I'm not too up on the story either, to be honest.  What was the warrant related to?  Drugs?  Race aside (to whatever degree that's possible), there's nothing worse than cops busting down doors and endangering lives because of fucking drugs. Legalize 'em all and then tax and regulate 'em.
    I don't think she was even the target, I think she was an known associate (ex boyfriend) of who they were going after. So a no knock warrant does seem excessive. And thats why I don't see how manslaughter would even stick. Its a fault of the warrant and the system, not the cops. The cops broke in, the dude didn't know it was a cop so he opened fire, the cops returned fire. Bad policy and procedures, not manslaughter. 
     I disagree about legalizing all drugs though, I don't want heroine and cocaine shops around. 
  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 698
    OnWis97 said:
    I'm not too up on the story either, to be honest.  What was the warrant related to?  Drugs?  Race aside (to whatever degree that's possible), there's nothing worse than cops busting down doors and endangering lives because of fucking drugs. Legalize 'em all and then tax and regulate 'em.
    Having spent much of my teens and early 20s in an altered state of mind, there are definitely a variety of substances that should not be readily available. I don't want the car approaching me to see my vehicle as a magic carpet for them to drive onto and chase the cloud that was waving them into the sky.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    JW269453 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I'm not too up on the story either, to be honest.  What was the warrant related to?  Drugs?  Race aside (to whatever degree that's possible), there's nothing worse than cops busting down doors and endangering lives because of fucking drugs. Legalize 'em all and then tax and regulate 'em.
    Having spent much of my teens and early 20s in an altered state of mind, there are definitely a variety of substances that should not be readily available. I don't want the car approaching me to see my vehicle as a magic carpet for them to drive onto and chase the cloud that was waving them into the sky.
    well it would still be illegal to drive under the influence. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TXPosts: 698
    JW269453 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    I'm not too up on the story either, to be honest.  What was the warrant related to?  Drugs?  Race aside (to whatever degree that's possible), there's nothing worse than cops busting down doors and endangering lives because of fucking drugs. Legalize 'em all and then tax and regulate 'em.
    Having spent much of my teens and early 20s in an altered state of mind, there are definitely a variety of substances that should not be readily available. I don't want the car approaching me to see my vehicle as a magic carpet for them to drive onto and chase the cloud that was waving them into the sky.
    well it would still be illegal to drive under the influence. 
    True, but that generally doesn't deter the masses already.

  • Randy Paul's introduction of legislation was a political stunt, as he knows full well that it would never pass the Senate, being controlled by the party of state's rights and all. Just another empty gesture by the gRand Stander. If he had real moral courage, he'd be advocating for accountability via DOJ reform and getting more than two co-sponsers. Hell, there are 50+ repubs in the senate.

    Police in the United States kill far more people than do police in other advanced industrial democracies (13). While a substantial body of evidence shows that people of color, especially African Americans, are at greater risk for experiencing criminal justice contact and police-involved harm than are whites (1419), we lack basic estimates of the prevalence of police-involved deaths, largely due to the absence of definitive official data. Journalists have stepped into this void and initiated a series of systematic efforts to track police-involved killings. These data enable a richer understanding of the geographic and demographic patterning of police violence (17) and an evaluation of the magnitude of exposure to police violence over the life course.

    Our results show that people of color face a higher likelihood of being killed by police than do white men and women, that risk peaks in young adulthood, and that men of color face a nontrivial lifetime risk of being killed by police.

    displays the ratio of lifetime risk for each racial–ethnic group relative to risk for whites for both men and women. Note that a rate ratio of 1 indicates equality in mortality risk relative to whites. The highest levels of inequality in mortality risk are experienced by black men. Black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police over the life course than are white men. Black women are about 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Although risks are estimated with less precision for American Indian/Alaska Native men and women than for other groups, we show that they face a higher lifetime risk of being killed by police than do whites. American Indian men are between 1.2 and 1.7 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, and American Indian women are between 1.1 and 2.1 times more likely to be killed by police than are white women. Latino men are between 1.3 and 1.4 times more likely to be killed by police than are white men, but Latina women are between 12% and 23% less likely to be killed by police than are white women. Both Asian/Pacific Islander men and women are more than 50% less likely to be killed by police than are white men and women, respectively.

    Among all groups, black men and boys face the highest lifetime risk of being killed by police. Our models predict that about 1 in 1,000 black men and boys will be killed by police over the life course (96 [77, 120] per 100,000). We predict that between 36 and 81 American Indian/Alaska Native men and boys per 100,000 will be killed by police over the life course. Latino men and boys have an estimated risk of being killed by police of about 53 per 100,000 [41, 67]. Asian/Pacific Islander men and boys face a lifetime risk of between 9 and 23 per 100,000, while white men and boys face a lifetime risk of about 39 [31, 48] per 100,000.

    Between the ages of 25 y and 29 y, black men are killed by police at a rate between 2.8 and 4.1 per 100,000, American Indian and Alaska Native men are killed at a rate between 1.5 and 2.8 per 100,000, Asian/Pacific Islander men are killed by police at a rate between 0.3 and 0.6 per 100,000, Latino men at a rate between 1.4 and 2.2 per 100,000, and white men at a rate between 0.9 and 1.4 per 100,000. Inequalities in risk persist throughout the life course.

    Our analysis shows that the risk of being killed by police is jointly patterned by one’s race, gender, and age. Police violence is a leading cause of death for young men, and young men of color face exceptionally high risk of being killed by police. Inequalities in risk are pronounced throughout the life course. This study reinforces calls to treat police violence as a public health issue (14). Racially unequal exposure to the risk of state violence has profound consequences for public health, democracy, and racial stratification (57911).

    The absence of authoritative official data is a key challenge in reducing police violence. The Bureau of Justice Statistics should renew efforts to develop comprehensive systems to track officer-involved deaths (440). Both the public interest and social science are served by increasing transparency with regard to police use of force. Using such data, the research community has made strides in identifying officers most at risk of being involved in cases of excessive force (41) and system failures that result in civilian deaths (42).

    https://www.pnas.org/content/116/34/16793
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  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    edited September 2020
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    Post edited by Glorified KC on
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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,643
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    edited September 2020
    tbergs said:
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.
    It's the same issue as many, why in the hell did they end up at that apartment in the first place?  Furthermore, who signs a warrant like this?  It's the cause that must be fixed to prevent these effects.  The system is not allowing justice in this situation.

    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    tbergs said:
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    No doubt. I strongly feel that it was murder, but there isn't a law against the type of murder that was committed. It's the loophole in the system that allows cops who negligently perform their duties to avoid criminal charges. Instead they are fired and large civil suits are handed out in place of justice.
    It's the same issue as many, why in the hell did they end up at that apartment in the first place?  Furthermore, who signs a warrant like this?  It's the cause that must be fixed to prevent these effects.  The system is not allowing justice in this situation.

    the judge who signed the warrant said she pored over it for over 30 minutes, and her death will haunt her for the rest of her life. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    Apparently a no knock warrant allows them to not identify themselves, and can literally just break in. the one cop i saw interviewed said "we didn't have to identify ourselves, but we did anyway, several times". 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,643
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

    In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    tbergs said:
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

    In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.
    did they have time to do identify themselves, even if they didn't? sounds like they didn't cross any threshold; they broke down the door and immediately got fired upon. details are a bit sketchy, but that's how i took it. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    I don't see how it would if they had a no-knock warrant. Those warrants exist to prevent a violent criminal a chance to prepare. It doesn't sound like this was a case that should have a no-knock warrant, but since there was one, I don't see how you could call it breaking and entering. 
    It just looks better for police in this case since the who case is about self defense. The police claim  boyfriend (?) shot at police first because he thought they were people breaking in. Saying they announced it loud enough for several witnesses to testify to that just helps their case a little in that they justly returned fire.
  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    tbergs said:
    Not sure why Manslaughter could not have been charged, at least to Hankinson.
    did any of hankinson's bullets hit her?
    Not sure.  You have a point there.  It's interesting he was the only one of three charged though.  I'm not sure if the murder charges weren't levied because they don't know who fired the fatal shot, and also did they break into the apartment without announcing themselves as police.  The latter so far is hearsay by Walker, several neighbors, the three officers and one outside witness who said they did.  There's a lot of plausible deniability in this.  I feel a lot of the same way I did about George Zimmerman.  I feel that it was complete bull shit they were at that apartment in the first place, but there's enough gray area and no law I can think of to make a case they wrongly killed Taylor.  However, when you look at it from a high level, she was definitely wrongly killed.

    from what I've read just today, it seems he was the only one charged as he was the only one discharging his weapon without cause. he was just firing it haphazardly into the home without knowing what he was shooting at. he's probably lucky he didn't hit her; he would have been charged with some type of homicide for sure.  

    whether they identified themselves or not seems irrelevant, as they were allowed to just knock the door down without doing so, as it was a no-knock warrant. they were fired upon first, and returned fire. so to me, it seems the two that weren't charged did everything right; it was the intel and the signing of the no knock warrant that was wrong. 
    If they don't identify themselves as police, would that constitute breaking and entering?  I bring it up, because the AG kept stating at his press conference that the officers did in fact identify themselves from the other side of the door.

    Yeah, that doesn't make sense. In a no knock situation you are allowed to enter without first knocking, but as you are crossing the threshhold of the door you are announcing "Police, this is a search warrant!" as loud as possible with guns drawn and clearly identifiable apparel. The whole point of a no knock is either to mitigate the destruction of evidence or for officer safety due to intel that weapons are inside and could be used pre-emptively if they announce at the door before entering. You almost always see it in the case of drug warrants because guns and drugs typically co-exist on a criminal level.

    In most of these cases, the judge knows the officers/department and is trusting them to have reliable intel about why the no-knock is justified. It takes some pretty intense circumstances for a judge to grant a no-knock after hours search warrant. Typically they want to know why any residence where the offender doesn't live is a place of interest and how recently intel was gathered that evidence or an offender is on site. Not sure of the laws outside MN, but it's usually down to within 24 hours, if not way less depending on the judge, of active criminal activity occurring for them to grant a no-knock late night search warrant. This whole situation just highlights the many issues with the whole process.
    did they have time to do identify themselves, even if they didn't? sounds like they didn't cross any threshold; they broke down the door and immediately got fired upon. details are a bit sketchy, but that's how i took it. 
    Yeah I only ask the question, because I honestly didn't know if that was within the law to execute the warrant without ID'ing yourself.  It seems to be a highly discussed detail within the entire event.

    I wish I was a sacrifice, but somehow still lived on.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    I just heard on the news it wasn’t a no-knock warrant. I’ve heard 100 times before that it was. 
    I still don’t see how not knocking and announcing yourself would make it breaking and entering, I would assume there’s some other lingo, like unlawful entry of a search warrant or something.
  • wndowpaynewndowpayne Posts: 1,370
    edited September 2020
    Entire thing is sketchy..no body cameras...Were they in another room or did the guy fire at them within a second or two of the door being kicked in? Seems if you were sitting right there you must have had the gun in your hand already.
    Post edited by wndowpayne on
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  • The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 
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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,221
    edited September 2020
    The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 
    What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 14,303
    edited September 2020
    static111 said:
    The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 
    What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?
    I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

    Post edited by Ledbetterman10 on
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  • static111static111 Posts: 2,221
    static111 said:
    The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 
    What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?
    I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

    A quick google search reveals that the DA was McConnell’s protege and general council for years....not sure I would take his word for anything.
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
  • static111 said:
    static111 said:
    The Kentucky DA Daniel Cameron said today that evidence (a witness) says that the cops did in fact knock and announce themselves even though they had a no-knock warrant. Something the public should’ve been made aware of months ago. 
    What witness? I thought most of the neighbors said that the police didn’t announce? So now one single witness is supposed to make it ok that this happened?  And if they did announce why did they drop the case against her boyfriend?
    I’m just quoting what the DA said today. 

    A quick google search reveals that the DA was McConnell’s protege and general council for years....not sure I would take his word for anything.
    Ya don’t have to. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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  • mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2

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