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Police abuse

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  • Glorified KCGlorified KC KCMO NativePosts: 1,957
    edited September 2020
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    Post edited by Glorified KC on
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  • mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,198
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,844
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,198
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,844
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
    Did I say no biggie?

    I just don't subscribe to extreme hyperbole like you. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,198
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
    Did I say no biggie?

    I just don't subscribe to extreme hyperbole like you. 
    Extreme hyperbole. Lol. Ok. 
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,844
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
    Did I say no biggie?

    I just don't subscribe to extreme hyperbole like you. 
    Extreme hyperbole. Lol. Ok. 
    Then don't make stupid comments like "cities will be destroyed".

    You sound like Trump, the gold standard of extreme hyperbole.
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,198
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
    Did I say no biggie?

    I just don't subscribe to extreme hyperbole like you. 
    Extreme hyperbole. Lol. Ok. 
    Then don't make stupid comments like "cities will be destroyed".

    You sound like Trump, the gold standard of extreme hyperbole.
    You got it boss. I’ll stick to brilliant comments like fiery but peaceful. Cities being destroyed isn’t a stupid comment. Cities were destroyed here. It’s probably hard to see it from where you live. I actually live in one. What’s to say it won’t happen again? Downplaying reality from the comfort of a different country is a stupid comment. 
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 3,559
    I live in St. Paul.  Buildings were destroyed in St. Paul and Minneapolis.  The cities themselves, not really.  I'd argue that one gender reveal has done more damage than all of the protests combined.  Not to mention the staggering number of out-of-state arrests that have occurred in some of these places...Kyle Rittenhouse may have been the most reckless white nationalist provocateur but he's not even close to an aberration.
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  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,198
    edited September 2020
    OnWis97 said:
    I live in St. Paul.  Buildings were destroyed in St. Paul and Minneapolis.  The cities themselves, not really.  I'd argue that one gender reveal has done more damage than all of the protests combined.  Not to mention the staggering number of out-of-state arrests that have occurred in some of these places...Kyle Rittenhouse may have been the most reckless white nationalist provocateur but he's not even close to an aberration.
    I hear you. My thing is this can’t just become acceptable because of Trump and Fox News. It can’t be acceptable to have to board up your business every time shit like this is in the news. Unfortunately, It won’t be the last time a cop gets off. None of this acceptable. From cop behavior to the aftermath. I’m happy to read here in NYC there were no arrests last night. That’s certainly encouraging. 
    Post edited by nicknyr15 on
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom'sPosts: 11,492
    I honestly don't see how people were expecting much to come of the Taylor investigation.  It was clearly a horrible error.  
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  • 23scidoo23scidoo Thessaloniki,GreecePosts: 14,928

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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    edited September 2020
    I hate the argument "well a gender reveal party did more damage than the protests." I've seen it several times on social media and our local BLM site too. For one, so what? How are they related? Because someone else did more damage, that doesn't minimize the damage does in riots.  If that's the case, why don't we just justify the riots by saying "well 19 terrorists did more damage..."
    Also that statement is only true depending on how you define damage. If you measure it by number of acres burned, sure, the El Dorado fire has done more damage. But if you measure by loss of life or buildings destroyed, the riots have done more damage. 
    But at the end of the day, so what? It comes across as trying to minimize the loss of life and destruction by comparing it to something completely unrelated. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • mace1229 said:
    I hate the argument "well a gender reveal party did more damage than the protests." I've seen it several times on social media and our local BLM site too. For one, so what? How are they related? Because someone else did more damage, that doesn't minimize the damage does in riots.  If that's the case, why don't we just justify the riots by saying "well 19 terrorists did more damage..."
    Also that statement is only true depending on how you define damage. If you measure it by number of acres burned, sure, the El Dorado fire has done more damage. But if you measure by loss of life or buildings destroyed, the riots have done more damage. 
    But at the end of the day, so what? It comes across as trying to minimize the loss of life and destruction by comparing it to something completely unrelated. 
    Seems never to miss an opportunity to minimize one and inflate the other, eh? California, Washington, Oregon wildfires have killed 33 people, burned millions of acres, destroyed homes and entire towns and caused 40 thousand people to flee their homes. And that was reported on September 12th. Yea, the riots have done more damage. What planet are you living on?

    But ANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFA is worse than those stupid selfish idiot gender reveal party people. Yea, so what?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/fires-in-oregon-california-and-washington-spread-death-toll-rises.html
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    mace1229 said:
    I hate the argument "well a gender reveal party did more damage than the protests." I've seen it several times on social media and our local BLM site too. For one, so what? How are they related? Because someone else did more damage, that doesn't minimize the damage does in riots.  If that's the case, why don't we just justify the riots by saying "well 19 terrorists did more damage..."
    Also that statement is only true depending on how you define damage. If you measure it by number of acres burned, sure, the El Dorado fire has done more damage. But if you measure by loss of life or buildings destroyed, the riots have done more damage. 
    But at the end of the day, so what? It comes across as trying to minimize the loss of life and destruction by comparing it to something completely unrelated. 
    Seems never to miss an opportunity to minimize one and inflate the other, eh? California, Washington, Oregon wildfires have killed 33 people, burned millions of acres, destroyed homes and entire towns and caused 40 thousand people to flee their homes. And that was reported on September 12th. Yea, the riots have done more damage. What planet are you living on?

    But ANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFA is worse than those stupid selfish idiot gender reveal party people. Yea, so what?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/fires-in-oregon-california-and-washington-spread-death-toll-rises.html
    his comment was in direct response to specifically mentioning the gender reveal fire, not all fires combined, which killed one person as far as i know, and your post is actually doing what you are accusing him of doing. he was stating that the person who conflated the two was minimizing one and inflating another. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mace1229 said:
    I hate the argument "well a gender reveal party did more damage than the protests." I've seen it several times on social media and our local BLM site too. For one, so what? How are they related? Because someone else did more damage, that doesn't minimize the damage does in riots.  If that's the case, why don't we just justify the riots by saying "well 19 terrorists did more damage..."
    Also that statement is only true depending on how you define damage. If you measure it by number of acres burned, sure, the El Dorado fire has done more damage. But if you measure by loss of life or buildings destroyed, the riots have done more damage. 
    But at the end of the day, so what? It comes across as trying to minimize the loss of life and destruction by comparing it to something completely unrelated. 
    Seems never to miss an opportunity to minimize one and inflate the other, eh? California, Washington, Oregon wildfires have killed 33 people, burned millions of acres, destroyed homes and entire towns and caused 40 thousand people to flee their homes. And that was reported on September 12th. Yea, the riots have done more damage. What planet are you living on?

    But ANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFA is worse than those stupid selfish idiot gender reveal party people. Yea, so what?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/fires-in-oregon-california-and-washington-spread-death-toll-rises.html
    his comment was in direct response to specifically mentioning the gender reveal fire, not all fires combined, which killed one person as far as i know, and your post is actually doing what you are accusing him of doing. he was stating that the person who conflated the two was minimizing one and inflating another. 
    I still disagree with Mace's response and characterization. To me, IMHO, its a false equivalency and an effort to minimize the El Dorado fire's impact on the immediate populace while conflating the impact of the rioters. Last I heard, the rioters weren't rioting over the gender of a soon to be baby. One is not the same as the other.
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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    mace1229 said:
    I hate the argument "well a gender reveal party did more damage than the protests." I've seen it several times on social media and our local BLM site too. For one, so what? How are they related? Because someone else did more damage, that doesn't minimize the damage does in riots.  If that's the case, why don't we just justify the riots by saying "well 19 terrorists did more damage..."
    Also that statement is only true depending on how you define damage. If you measure it by number of acres burned, sure, the El Dorado fire has done more damage. But if you measure by loss of life or buildings destroyed, the riots have done more damage. 
    But at the end of the day, so what? It comes across as trying to minimize the loss of life and destruction by comparing it to something completely unrelated. 
    Seems never to miss an opportunity to minimize one and inflate the other, eh? California, Washington, Oregon wildfires have killed 33 people, burned millions of acres, destroyed homes and entire towns and caused 40 thousand people to flee their homes. And that was reported on September 12th. Yea, the riots have done more damage. What planet are you living on?

    But ANTIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFA is worse than those stupid selfish idiot gender reveal party people. Yea, so what?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/12/fires-in-oregon-california-and-washington-spread-death-toll-rises.html
    his comment was in direct response to specifically mentioning the gender reveal fire, not all fires combined, which killed one person as far as i know, and your post is actually doing what you are accusing him of doing. he was stating that the person who conflated the two was minimizing one and inflating another. 
    I still disagree with Mace's response and characterization. To me, IMHO, its a false equivalency and an effort to minimize the El Dorado fire's impact on the immediate populace while conflating the impact of the rioters. Last I heard, the rioters weren't rioting over the gender of a soon to be baby. One is not the same as the other.
    his entire post was making the point that one has nothing to do with the other. he was saying someone else was making a false equivalency about the two. not sure how you can disagree with him when he said basically the same thing you are. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    i'm convinced many people around here would respond with entirely different opinions if you couldn't see the person's user name you were responding to. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    What part of the procedure do you see needs changing?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    agreed
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 8,121
    nicknyr15 said:
    dignin said:
    nicknyr15 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Well that didn’t take long. Just heard 2 Louisville officers already shot.
    Ugh...it was one when I got in the shower. Gonna be a shit show. Wait until the other cops (not Chauvin) get off in the Floyd case. 
    That’s what makes me feel so depressed about this.  Many of us are convinced the cops in all of these cases will get off without significant jail time.  I have a hard time seeing how Chauvin is not given a guilty verdict considering it was in plain sight of what he did to George Floyd.
    I think Chauvin will be convicted, and the cops that were with him won’t. 
    Either way , cities will be destroyed. Apparently murdering cops and “burning it down” is the only way. 
    No cities have been destroyed or will be destroyed. A few businesses are not a city.
    Yea you’re right. A few businesses, 2 lives, no biggie. More to come I’m sure but whatever. 
    Come on now.  Did you not visit Detroit in the  70's, 80's or 90's after the riots in the '60s...everybody wanted to move there...
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    What part of the procedure do you see needs changing?
    if the cops are presenting old/outdated intel to the judge to get a warrant and something goes wrong, then the cops need to be held accountable for that. 

    these cops had apparently only seen the guy they were looking for at that residence once in the past several months, holding a box that later turned out to be (apparently) shoes breanna was returning to him, they suspected to be drugs. 

    no knock warrants should be rare and only if they suspect the occupants of the house to be heavily armed. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    i'm convinced many people around here would respond with entirely different opinions if you couldn't see the person's user name you were responding to. 
    Ha! So very true.
  • elvistheking44elvistheking44 Posts: 3,593
    edited September 2020
    What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    What part of the procedure do you see needs changing?
    if the cops are presenting old/outdated intel to the judge to get a warrant and something goes wrong, then the cops need to be held accountable for that. 

    these cops had apparently only seen the guy they were looking for at that residence once in the past several months, holding a box that later turned out to be (apparently) shoes breanna was returning to him, they suspected to be drugs. 

    no knock warrants should be rare and only if they suspect the occupants of the house to be heavily armed. 
    Where did the old information story come into play? I had not heard that. I was under the assumption that the cops had video and audio proof of the drug dealing from both breonna and her boyfriend. The former head of the Louisville NAACP even said that what the cops did was legal and completely approved by the judge who issued the warrant. The shooting was extremely unfortunate in every way.
    Post edited by elvistheking44 on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 25,314
    What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    What part of the procedure do you see needs changing?
    if the cops are presenting old/outdated intel to the judge to get a warrant and something goes wrong, then the cops need to be held accountable for that. 

    these cops had apparently only seen the guy they were looking for at that residence once in the past several months, holding a box that later turned out to be (apparently) shoes breanna was returning to him, they suspected to be drugs. 

    no knock warrants should be rare and only if they suspect the occupants of the house to be heavily armed. 
    Where did the old information story come into play? I had not heard that. I was under the assumption that the cops had video and audio proof of the drug dealing from both breonna and her boyfriend. The former head of the Louisville NAACP even said that what the cops did was legal and completely approved by the judge who issued the warrant. The shooting was extremely unfortunate in every way.
    an article i read was that intel was not current, like months old, corroborated by breonna's family saying he was her ex boyfriend and hadn't lived at her apartment in months. 

    i agree the shooting was unfortunate. i honestly don't know who's to blame; i don't know who provided the intel to the judge, i don't know how that works (except on cop shows on tv LOL). but the system broke down and an innocent woman was killed in her own home. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • tbergstbergs Posts: 7,643
    What the cops getting off really shows?  Need systemic changes in the laws and law enforcement procedures.  If they are getting off because they followed their proper procedures, etc....then those need changed pronto.
    What part of the procedure do you see needs changing?
    if the cops are presenting old/outdated intel to the judge to get a warrant and something goes wrong, then the cops need to be held accountable for that. 

    these cops had apparently only seen the guy they were looking for at that residence once in the past several months, holding a box that later turned out to be (apparently) shoes breanna was returning to him, they suspected to be drugs. 

    no knock warrants should be rare and only if they suspect the occupants of the house to be heavily armed. 
    Where did the old information story come into play? I had not heard that. I was under the assumption that the cops had video and audio proof of the drug dealing from both breonna and her boyfriend. The former head of the Louisville NAACP even said that what the cops did was legal and completely approved by the judge who issued the warrant. The shooting was extremely unfortunate in every way.
    an article i read was that intel was not current, like months old, corroborated by breonna's family saying he was her ex boyfriend and hadn't lived at her apartment in months. 

    i agree the shooting was unfortunate. i honestly don't know who's to blame; i don't know who provided the intel to the judge, i don't know how that works (except on cop shows on tv LOL). but the system broke down and an innocent woman was killed in her own home. 
    I don't know what the laws are around search warrants in Kentucky, but I mentioned in a post the other day that my experience is that illegal activity or intel needed to be recent and either observed or corroborated by a confidential informant. When you go before the judge with the warrant you are swearing that the information presented is true and accurate. In this case, it seems like that could be challenged, but I am not familiar with what the legal ramifications are in Kentucky. Most likely, that is part of the reason they settled for 12 million in civil damages. Other than that, the department could discipline or terminate the officer if they lied on the warrant.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 5,654
    Part of the problem with this case is it seems like there was one story floating around, and other information wasn't made available to the public. I understand not wanting to make all the information available in an open case, but then there should be better documentation or recordings. That's one thing I bet will change, how hard is it to have one officer record footage of them announcing themselves and knocking before breaking in? This case could have ended 6 months ago if there was actual footage of that.
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,107
    The more I see/hear about the Taylor case the more I believe that policing in America absolutely needs to change and like, right now. 

    That said, I'm curious... do jurisdictions in the USA have impartial investigators called in for police shootings?  

    In Ontario, Canada for example, if criteria is met, we have an independent group called the Special Investigations Unit (SIU) called to investigate for proper police activity. 

    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
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    10C: 220xxx
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