Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

Ledbetterman10 said:

Of all the American political ideologies, conservatives being anti-abortion is the most mind-numbing to me. I'll elaborate with this hypothetical scenario:

Girl: I'm pregnant but have no means to support a child. Can I get an abortion?

Republican Dude: You want to murder your unborn child? I can't allow it. What would God think of that?

Girl: Umm...okay. Well then can I get some welfare money and food stamps so I can feed and clothe this child that I can't afford but you're making me have?

Republican Dude: I'm sorry but that's a question for the democrats. We only deal in unborn children. After you have the child, I don't care what you do with it. Kill it if you want. You can borrow my gun.

Girl: So you care if the child dies before it's born but don't care if it dies after it's born?

Republican Dude: I care. I'm just not going to help you with the kid after it's born.

Girl: So you don't care.

Republican Dude: Fine...I guess not.

jnimhaoileoin said:

Degeneratefk said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Degeneratefk said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Degeneratefk said:

drakeheuer14 said:

This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 

I've never read ANY document that gives a cluster of cells or a fetus rights to anything. 

Clearly you haven't read the Irish constitution 

No, I havemt. What does it say?

At the moment it basically recognises the rights of the 'unborn' from the moment of conception (abortion is illegal here, under any circumstances). We're having a referendum this year to hopefully sort it out and drag us into the 21st century

How do women's rights groups react to that kind of amendment? I see that and immediately think "can women vote in ireland?" Clearly a sarcastic remark. But how was that vote cast in your "congress?" Does Ireland have many women politicians?

***sorry couldn't get my reply outside the quote


It wasn't parliament, only the people of Ireland can make a change to the constitution. So what happened was that contraception was illegal in Ireland up to the 80's. When that was legalised, they got worried that it could lead to a legal challenge to the prohibition of abortion, which stood in the original constitution of 1937. So they put it to the people, who in their Catholic wisdom decided to firm up the language criminalising abortion. That was the 8th Anendment. Then in 1993, after the X Case, there was a further referendum and this time the Irish people were given the opportunity to approve the addition of two paragraphs to the 8th allowing access to information on services abroad and allowing Irish citizens to travel to a foreign state for an abortion. Now the campaign is to repeal the 8th and the debate is what to put in its place i.e. do we allow unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks (that's pretty much as far as this is ever likely to go) or do we limit it to cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality or threat to the life of the mother.

Time will tell but you can imagine it's quite a divisive topic. A recent anti-abortion campaign used posters of children with Downs Syndrome, suggesting repealing the 8th was encouraging eugenics and a step on the path to unlimited abortion on demand. They were practically comparing it to genocide

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Of all the American political ideologies, conservatives being anti-abortion is the most mind-numbing to me. I'll elaborate with this hypothetical scenario:

Girl: I'm pregnant but have no means to support a child. Can I get an abortion?

Republican Dude: You want to murder your unborn child? I can't allow it. What would God think of that?

Girl: Umm...okay. Well then can I get some welfare money and food stamps so I can feed and clothe this child that I can't afford but you're making me have?

Republican Dude: I'm sorry but that's a question for the democrats. We only deal in unborn children. After you have the child, I don't care what you do with it. Kill it if you want. You can borrow my gun.

Girl: So you care if the child dies before it's born but don't care if it dies after it's born?

Republican Dude: I care. I'm just not going to help you with the kid after it's born.

Girl: So you don't care.

Republican Dude: Fine...I guess not.

I don't think that is accurate. I know a lot of republicans, and I can't think of any who would be against all forms of welfare. Yes, many are against the ObamaPhones, and 2 years of unemployment, maybe some sort of cut-off at some point if there have been no attempts to complete a high school education. But many would be for supporting a young mother for a period of time.

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Of all the American political ideologies, conservatives being anti-abortion is the most mind-numbing to me. I'll elaborate with this hypothetical scenario:

Girl: I'm pregnant but have no means to support a child. Can I get an abortion?

Republican Dude: You want to murder your unborn child? I can't allow it. What would God think of that?

Girl: Umm...okay. Well then can I get some welfare money and food stamps so I can feed and clothe this child that I can't afford but you're making me have?

Republican Dude: I'm sorry but that's a question for the democrats. We only deal in unborn children. After you have the child, I don't care what you do with it. Kill it if you want. You can borrow my gun.

Girl: So you care if the child dies before it's born but don't care if it dies after it's born?

Republican Dude: I care. I'm just not going to help you with the kid after it's born.

Girl: So you don't care.

Republican Dude: Fine...I guess not.

I don't think that is accurate. I know a lot of republicans, and I can't think of any who would be against all forms of welfare. Yes, many are against the ObamaPhones, and 2 years of unemployment, maybe some sort of cut-off at some point if there have been no attempts to complete a high school education. But many would be for supporting a young mother for a period of time.

You're talking about citizens who are republicans. I'm talking about republicans that are elected officials. I should have clarified that. And I'm sure there are republican officials who in their heart "would be for supporting a young mother for a period of time." But in their minds, they know that goes against their agenda.

This sort of extreme thinking that I'm poking fun at with my "skit" happens with the democrats too though. I'll redo it with a Democratic Dude:

Girl: I'm pregnant but have no means to support a child. Can I get an abortion?

Democratic Dude: You sure could! Or...and I'm just throwing this out there...you can have the baby and get all the free money and food you need!

Girl: Whoa really? Well....what if I have two kids?

Democratic Dude: Well if that's the case, can I interest you in a new home for free?

Girl: Well...yeah. Of course.

Democratic Dude: Cool. Well I'll assign you a bunch of caseworkers that are paid with taxpayer dollars and they can get started on getting you all the free shit you need!

PJinIL said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm pro-life enough that I believe abortion should be for cases where there is a danger to the mother and/or baby. I honestly am not sure where I fall on the spectrum of say a married or committed couple that is using birth control and it fails. Thing is, there's really no way to know for sure. A couple that uses only condoms, but decides to make it feel extra good one night and gets pregnant could always say they used one. I couldn't choose to abort if I were in that situation, and would go the adoption route if I didn't want/wasn't able to raise it myself. 

Someone has mentioned overpopulation, that's one issue I've pondered. I could get on board with policies to limit family size. Say 2 kids per household (number could be debatable). Over that, and you get taxed or something. Still have a choice, but somewhere along the line humans are going to have to be reasonable with resources or thin the population so we use less. I look around at the garbage in stores. Just crap that is being bought for $1 that will be used by some kid for 2 minutes, clutter a bedroom, and then become litter. Not to mention the resources and pollution generated to make the stuff. I'm no saint to the earth, but we do try to be conscious of what we use in our home, recycle what we can and try not to buy "fluff stuff" that we know isn't of real value. I digress.

Halifax2TheMax said:

oftenreading said:

oftenreading said:

Bentleyspop said:

Ugh......

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/975841480710545408?s=19

Really? 

A major step step backward for women’s health, especially given that many women don’t even know they are pregnant until close to that mark. I can’t help but assume that Mississippi also puts a bunch of roadblocks in the way that makes it even harder to access abortion prior to the deadline. 
 

Just found out further information on this topic that, unfortunately, confirms what I assumed.

Mississippi has a single abortion clinic. Just one. One clinic for a population of 2.98 million people, spread over almost 50,000 square miles.

Think about what that means for women trying to access abortion. Think about trying to arrange to get to that one clinic before the 15 week deadline, particularly if you are low income.

Mississippi goddamn!