PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

Damn!  I just lost everything I wrote for the last 10 minute.  I guess God didn't want me to say it, haha!  Basically it was an argument that not "each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.".  I know of people of faith who practice their faith in a quiet and personal way and I see these as people who do far more good than harm.

I disagree. Without the belief in God religion wouldn't exist, and if religion didn't exist it couldn't be use to control the masses and do harm with it. At the very root of the whole thing is, simply, belief in God. It's all stems from that. Whether or not specific individuals practice a religion isn't relevant to this theory. I mean, nobody would be practicing their faith in quiet if it weren't for religion, even if they're not "religious", and religion wouldn't exist without that faith. It's all connected.

You put up a good argument (as usual, damn it, haha!) but the thing is, religion, as far as we can tell anyway, has always been a part of the human condition and will likely always be around. So my feeling is, make the best of it by encouraging people to see faith as a personal and individual part of ones existence, rather than a mob thing.  Trying to eradicate religion, I would think, is rather futile.

OK, hit me with your best shot Alison!

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

I like this. We are all energy. And way more plausible

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

There is a movement for "green burial"; I have seen local advertisements. From what I understand, the body is not embalmed, and whatever the container, be it casket or shroud, is non-toxic and biodegradable. This is quite different from traditional burial. I'm thinking of looking into it. The simplicity of it appeals to me.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

he only mentioned it being wasted in the context of it being sent to space. he wants his energy to be returned to earth in its maximum usage/consumable capacity. at least that's what I got from it. 

I understand now what he means. He just wants his energy to be with the earth. Makes sense. 

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

The idea of that "soul" energy really breaks apart on the quantum level, where the rules are completely different and nothing is stable or unique. 
It's a real problem, our quantum observations don't really square with our human perception of reality, and the big question is whether our observations and conclusions are wrong, or our perceptions are just incomplete.
Either way, the idea of the soul is always at a disadvantage to the idea of an accreted consciousness in scientific thought processes.  The soul seems like the simplest, most obvious answer to who we are, but it really falls apart under scrutiny, whereas ideas of levels of accreted consciousness holds up better.

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

The idea of that "soul" energy really breaks apart on the quantum level, where the rules are completely different and nothing is stable or unique. 
It's a real problem, our quantum observations don't really square with our human perception of reality, and the big question is whether our observations and conclusions are wrong, or our perceptions are just incomplete.
Either way, the idea of the soul is always at a disadvantage to the idea of an accreted consciousness in scientific thought processes.  The soul seems like the simplest, most obvious answer to who we are, but it really falls apart under scrutiny, whereas ideas of levels of accreted consciousness holds up better.

I don't believe in souls. That's why is said but not a soul. I believe your energy is your energy though. 

I know you didn't mean soul in the literal, established way, but the idea of a discrete, essential energy which is unique to each individual is almost the same as the popular concept of a soul in the context of looking for analogs and explanations from known and assumed scientific principles.

lastexitlondon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

I like this. We are all energy. And way more plausible

I like this as well. 

One of my favorite books is Alan Weisman's The World Without Us.  Toward the end of the book he says, "...radio waves don't die- like light, they travel on.  The human brain also emanates electric impulses at very low frequencies: similar to, but far weaker than, the radio waves used to communicate with submarines. ... The emanations from our brains, like radio waves, must also keep going- where? Space is now described as an expanding bubble, but that architecture is still theory. Along its great mysterious interstellar curvature, perhaps it's not unreasonable to think that our thought waves might eventually find their way back here."

Or perhaps they resonate throughout a multiverse occupying the same space and time influencing each other in subtle and imperceptible ways.