The Concept of God

brianlux

FoxyRedLa said:

I would like to step forward today and say thank you to everyone that has posted here. I think often about our convos in this thread.

I believe in God.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say. I feel I understand "organized  religion " a little better. 

Thank you all for sharing.

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know this is weird and choppy but felt I needed to get it out. Maybe it will help me process.

I was talking to a customer in the bookstore yesterday (actually, it was more like he was talking, I was listening- he's pretty much always like that) who made a good point that if someone has a belief system that doesn't harm anyone but at the same time that helps them get through life, there's no need to criticize that.  I agree with that notion.  He also mentioned that some atheists are so immersed in their atheism that it comes across a a religion, especially when they preach atheism.  He also pointed out that most wars and much strife in life is perpetrated by religion.

So I figure, if we could just keep all the negative and harmful aspects out of our beliefs and allow people to develop their own personal set of beliefs we would all be better off.  FoxyRed, if your belief in God is helping you find your way through this life, that's great.

My own take is that there is still many mysterious aspects of life, the universe and all that which we (or at least I) cannot understand.    Works for me!

HughFreakingDillon

brianlux said:

FoxyRedLa said:

I would like to step forward today and say thank you to everyone that has posted here. I think often about our convos in this thread.

I believe in God.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say. I feel I understand "organized  religion " a little better. 

Thank you all for sharing.

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know this is weird and choppy but felt I needed to get it out. Maybe it will help me process.

I was talking to a customer in the bookstore yesterday (actually, it was more like he was talking, I was listening- he's pretty much always like that) who made a good point that if someone has a belief system that doesn't harm anyone but at the same time that helps them get through life, there's no need to criticize that.  I agree with that notion.  He also mentioned that some atheists are so immersed in their atheism that it comes across a a religion, especially when they preach atheism.  He also pointed out that most wars and much strife in life is perpetrated by religion.

So I figure, if we could just keep all the negative and harmful aspects out of our beliefs and allow people to develop their own personal set of beliefs we would all be better off.  FoxyRed, if your belief in God is helping you find your way through this life, that's great.

My own take is that there is still many mysterious aspects of life, the universe and all that which we (or at least I) cannot understand.    Works for me!

this right here is why I hate being referred to as atheist. I don't identify by what I'm not. it's like calling a pedestrian an amotorist, like believing in god is the default. it makes no sense. 

lastexitlondon

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

brianlux

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

FoxyRedLa said:

I would like to step forward today and say thank you to everyone that has posted here. I think often about our convos in this thread.

I believe in God.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say. I feel I understand "organized  religion " a little better. 

Thank you all for sharing.

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know this is weird and choppy but felt I needed to get it out. Maybe it will help me process.

I was talking to a customer in the bookstore yesterday (actually, it was more like he was talking, I was listening- he's pretty much always like that) who made a good point that if someone has a belief system that doesn't harm anyone but at the same time that helps them get through life, there's no need to criticize that.  I agree with that notion.  He also mentioned that some atheists are so immersed in their atheism that it comes across a a religion, especially when they preach atheism.  He also pointed out that most wars and much strife in life is perpetrated by religion.

So I figure, if we could just keep all the negative and harmful aspects out of our beliefs and allow people to develop their own personal set of beliefs we would all be better off.  FoxyRed, if your belief in God is helping you find your way through this life, that's great.

My own take is that there is still many mysterious aspects of life, the universe and all that which we (or at least I) cannot understand.    Works for me!

this right here is why I hate being referred to as atheist. I don't identify by what I'm not. it's like calling a pedestrian an amotorist, like believing in god is the default. it makes no sense. 

"amotorist"  haha, clever, I like that!

What my talkative customer was trying to say is that some people who identify themselves as atheists do so rather quietly because they have nothing to prove either way and some are so demonstrative about their beliefs that they sound like evangelical atheists.

I've been referred to as an agnostic because I've stated that I find there to be mystery in life, the universe and all that stuff.  But even the term "agnostic" to me has certain parameters I don't relate to. 

Agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

I don't necessarily believe that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God nor do I believe that isn't possible.  Maybe there are people who actually do know these things.  Who am I to judge?  And I don't really not claim faith nor disbelief in God but I don't claim that faith either. I don't think mystery can be claimed or not claimed.  It's a mystery.

PJ_Soul

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

HesCalledDyer

Question:  Could it be that atheists/agnostics have more faith in "God" than those who actually believe in him (her/it) and worship? Hear me out...

I'm not talking about "faith" as an instrument or indoctrination of religious spirtuality.  I'm talking about "faith" by definition - complete confidence, trust, conviction in someone or something.  If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, & benevolent, what is the point in worshipping God?  Why go to church, why pray, why submit and sacrifice your entire life in God's name?  Do you not trust God to do God's will?  What is it that the religious fear if they don't spend a life serving God?

I look around me and see everything I know and everything I need to live my life.  If God exists and has a plan, is it not enough to just let him (her/it) be and go about my way?  Let God do God's job and not be a beggar or beast of burden.  If God controls everything, he (she/it) is probably pretty fucking busy.  Way too busy to be concerned of my insignificant doings here on earth.  If anything, I'm inclined to believe that not succumbing to religion & God shows that if God does exist, I have more faith in God to do God's work than anyone who steps foot in church, kneels and prays to an anthropomorphic idol, pays money to churches, or - even worse - kills and sacrifices in God's name.  I have no fear. If God exists, I'll know when I die and he'll tell me I was wrong all along about his existence. God is all loving, right? Then why should I fear punishment? God will forgive me for my ignorance should I be proven wrong when I'm gone.

Typing this thought out, I think I just discovered the meaning of life. Just be.

42.

jeffbr

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

To me, the belief in god(s) isn't necessarily harmful to others. It is the action one takes due to that belief that can be.

Shyner

God is the devil
Jesus is the teacher
 the devil will cross jesus 
Jesus will teach god
In the end
The father shall pass
The holy spirit will always remain
Jesus will morph into every human
Making him a spirit in blood
The people will always deny faith
Claiming its corrupt
Jesus never hurt nobody
The words spoken spoken are nice


In the meantime

I am dead

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

Damn!  I just lost everything I wrote for the last 10 minute.  I guess God didn't want me to say it, haha!  Basically it was an argument that not "each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.".  I know of people of faith who practice their faith in a quiet and personal way and I see these as people who do far more good than harm.

brianlux

HesCalledDyer said:

Question:  Could it be that atheists/agnostics have more faith in "God" than those who actually believe in him (her/it) and worship? Hear me out...

I'm not talking about "faith" as an instrument or indoctrination of religious spirtuality.  I'm talking about "faith" by definition - complete confidence, trust, conviction in someone or something.  If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, & benevolent, what is the point in worshipping God?  Why go to church, why pray, why submit and sacrifice your entire life in God's name?  Do you not trust God to do God's will?  What is it that the religious fear if they don't spend a life serving God?

I look around me and see everything I know and everything I need to live my life.  If God exists and has a plan, is it not enough to just let him (her/it) be and go about my way?  Let God do God's job and not be a beggar or beast of burden.  If God controls everything, he (she/it) is probably pretty fucking busy.  Way too busy to be concerned of my insignificant doings here on earth.  If anything, I'm inclined to believe that not succumbing to religion & God shows that if God does exist, I have more faith in God to do God's work than anyone who steps foot in church, kneels and prays to an anthropomorphic idol, pays money to churches, or - even worse - kills and sacrifices in God's name.  I have no fear. If God exists, I'll know when I die and he'll tell me I was wrong all along about his existence. God is all loving, right? Then why should I fear punishment? God will forgive me for my ignorance should I be proven wrong when I'm gone.

Typing this thought out, I think I just discovered the meaning of life. Just be.

42.

Great post, Dyer.   Excellent!   And with a little added mystery (42) which I like!

jeffbr

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Question:  Could it be that atheists/agnostics have more faith in "God" than those who actually believe in him (her/it) and worship? Hear me out...

I'm not talking about "faith" as an instrument or indoctrination of religious spirtuality.  I'm talking about "faith" by definition - complete confidence, trust, conviction in someone or something.  If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, & benevolent, what is the point in worshipping God?  Why go to church, why pray, why submit and sacrifice your entire life in God's name?  Do you not trust God to do God's will?  What is it that the religious fear if they don't spend a life serving God?

I look around me and see everything I know and everything I need to live my life.  If God exists and has a plan, is it not enough to just let him (her/it) be and go about my way?  Let God do God's job and not be a beggar or beast of burden.  If God controls everything, he (she/it) is probably pretty fucking busy.  Way too busy to be concerned of my insignificant doings here on earth.  If anything, I'm inclined to believe that not succumbing to religion & God shows that if God does exist, I have more faith in God to do God's work than anyone who steps foot in church, kneels and prays to an anthropomorphic idol, pays money to churches, or - even worse - kills and sacrifices in God's name.  I have no fear. If God exists, I'll know when I die and he'll tell me I was wrong all along about his existence. God is all loving, right? Then why should I fear punishment? God will forgive me for my ignorance should I be proven wrong when I'm gone.

Typing this thought out, I think I just discovered the meaning of life. Just be.

42.

Great post, Dyer.   Excellent!   And with a little added mystery (42) which I like!

No mystery there, Brian. It is well established as the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything! 

brianlux

jeffbr said:

brianlux said:

HesCalledDyer said:

Question:  Could it be that atheists/agnostics have more faith in "God" than those who actually believe in him (her/it) and worship? Hear me out...

I'm not talking about "faith" as an instrument or indoctrination of religious spirtuality.  I'm talking about "faith" by definition - complete confidence, trust, conviction in someone or something.  If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, & benevolent, what is the point in worshipping God?  Why go to church, why pray, why submit and sacrifice your entire life in God's name?  Do you not trust God to do God's will?  What is it that the religious fear if they don't spend a life serving God?

I look around me and see everything I know and everything I need to live my life.  If God exists and has a plan, is it not enough to just let him (her/it) be and go about my way?  Let God do God's job and not be a beggar or beast of burden.  If God controls everything, he (she/it) is probably pretty fucking busy.  Way too busy to be concerned of my insignificant doings here on earth.  If anything, I'm inclined to believe that not succumbing to religion & God shows that if God does exist, I have more faith in God to do God's work than anyone who steps foot in church, kneels and prays to an anthropomorphic idol, pays money to churches, or - even worse - kills and sacrifices in God's name.  I have no fear. If God exists, I'll know when I die and he'll tell me I was wrong all along about his existence. God is all loving, right? Then why should I fear punishment? God will forgive me for my ignorance should I be proven wrong when I'm gone.

Typing this thought out, I think I just discovered the meaning of life. Just be.

42.

Great post, Dyer.   Excellent!   And with a little added mystery (42) which I like!

No mystery there, Brian. It is well established as the answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything! 

Nice!  May the 42 be with you!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

Damn!  I just lost everything I wrote for the last 10 minute.  I guess God didn't want me to say it, haha!  Basically it was an argument that not "each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.".  I know of people of faith who practice their faith in a quiet and personal way and I see these as people who do far more good than harm.

I disagree. Without the belief in God religion wouldn't exist, and if religion didn't exist it couldn't be use to control the masses and do harm with it. At the very root of the whole thing is, simply, belief in God. It's all stems from that. Whether or not specific individuals practice a religion isn't relevant to this theory. I mean, nobody would be practicing their faith in quiet if it weren't for religion, even if they're not "religious", and religion wouldn't exist without that faith. It's all connected.

amethgr8

FoxyRedLa said:

...

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know now, maybe for the past year or so, I don't have the same "belief" in God that I had for many years.  I think being exposed to it as a child and taught as a big part of life is the main reason I believed for so long and with such conviction.  I see so many more possibilities now, I'm not sure that there is a "God" as a diety.  I believe now more of a non-specific life-force or energy and may tie into other energies to create chain reactions, etc.  I'm trying to tap into that to see where that takes me.  I am part of that force but it's hard to not have definition after having such specific definition for so long.

FoxyRedLa

brianlux said:

FoxyRedLa said:

I would like to step forward today and say thank you to everyone that has posted here. I think often about our convos in this thread.

I believe in God.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say. I feel I understand "organized  religion " a little better. 

Thank you all for sharing.

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know this is weird and choppy but felt I needed to get it out. Maybe it will help me process.

I was talking to a customer in the bookstore yesterday (actually, it was more like he was talking, I was listening- he's pretty much always like that) who made a good point that if someone has a belief system that doesn't harm anyone but at the same time that helps them get through life, there's no need to criticize that.  I agree with that notion.  He also mentioned that some atheists are so immersed in their atheism that it comes across a a religion, especially when they preach atheism.  He also pointed out that most wars and much strife in life is perpetrated by religion.

So I figure, if we could just keep all the negative and harmful aspects out of our beliefs and allow people to develop their own personal set of beliefs we would all be better off.  FoxyRed, if your belief in God is helping you find your way through this life, that's great.

My own take is that there is still many mysterious aspects of life, the universe and all that which we (or at least I) cannot understand.    Works for me!

Thank you Brian. 

I have learned a lot from each of you not just in this thread.

I often wonder if the Bible they teach with today was interpreted wrong or written for "organized " gain. I understand these aren't new concepts. 

But I think back someone asked me many pages back if I took the Bible literally and I said yes. And since then I've wondered what the hell am I believing? Do I believe the Bible literally or do I just believe in good and not evil? I don't know every inch of the Bible. 

I think what I'm mostly getting at here with my earlier post is I believed I WAS using my own brain and HAD my own mind. But what you guys have taught me is how to do it better? I don't even know if that's the correct way to express that but. Maybe I'm freer to expand and explore my own thoughts beliefs.

I'm still trying to figure out how to say what I'm trying to say.  

You guys didn't change my mind but I feel freer.

FoxyRedLa

HesCalledDyer said:

Question:  Could it be that atheists/agnostics have more faith in "God" than those who actually believe in him (her/it) and worship? Hear me out...

I'm not talking about "faith" as an instrument or indoctrination of religious spirtuality.  I'm talking about "faith" by definition - complete confidence, trust, conviction in someone or something.  If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, & benevolent, what is the point in worshipping God?  Why go to church, why pray, why submit and sacrifice your entire life in God's name?  Do you not trust God to do God's will?  What is it that the religious fear if they don't spend a life serving God?

I look around me and see everything I know and everything I need to live my life.  If God exists and has a plan, is it not enough to just let him (her/it) be and go about my way?  Let God do God's job and not be a beggar or beast of burden.  If God controls everything, he (she/it) is probably pretty fucking busy.  Way too busy to be concerned of my insignificant doings here on earth.  If anything, I'm inclined to believe that not succumbing to religion & God shows that if God does exist, I have more faith in God to do God's work than anyone who steps foot in church, kneels and prays to an anthropomorphic idol, pays money to churches, or - even worse - kills and sacrifices in God's name.  I have no fear. If God exists, I'll know when I die and he'll tell me I was wrong all along about his existence. God is all loving, right? Then why should I fear punishment? God will forgive me for my ignorance should I be proven wrong when I'm gone.

Typing this thought out, I think I just discovered the meaning of life. Just be.

42.

I don't know the 42 reference.

I have always wondered the same on the flip side. Why would any one fear Lucifer? If evil is his goal and you fulfill this why would he harm and torture you in the after life?

There is a lot that is strange but there is a lot that just feels right.

But the meaning of life can't be just be. I don't believe that.

rgambs

FoxyRedLa said:

brianlux said:

FoxyRedLa said:

I would like to step forward today and say thank you to everyone that has posted here. I think often about our convos in this thread.

I believe in God.

I'm not really sure what I'm trying to say. I feel I understand "organized  religion " a little better. 

Thank you all for sharing.

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know this is weird and choppy but felt I needed to get it out. Maybe it will help me process.

I was talking to a customer in the bookstore yesterday (actually, it was more like he was talking, I was listening- he's pretty much always like that) who made a good point that if someone has a belief system that doesn't harm anyone but at the same time that helps them get through life, there's no need to criticize that.  I agree with that notion.  He also mentioned that some atheists are so immersed in their atheism that it comes across a a religion, especially when they preach atheism.  He also pointed out that most wars and much strife in life is perpetrated by religion.

So I figure, if we could just keep all the negative and harmful aspects out of our beliefs and allow people to develop their own personal set of beliefs we would all be better off.  FoxyRed, if your belief in God is helping you find your way through this life, that's great.

My own take is that there is still many mysterious aspects of life, the universe and all that which we (or at least I) cannot understand.    Works for me!

Thank you Brian. 

I have learned a lot from each of you not just in this thread.

I often wonder if the Bible they teach with today was interpreted wrong or written for "organized " gain. I understand these aren't new concepts. 

But I think back someone asked me many pages back if I took the Bible literally and I said yes. And since then I've wondered what the hell am I believing? Do I believe the Bible literally or do I just believe in good and not evil? I don't know every inch of the Bible. 

I think what I'm mostly getting at here with my earlier post is I believed I WAS using my own brain and HAD my own mind. But what you guys have taught me is how to do it better? I don't even know if that's the correct way to express that but. Maybe I'm freer to expand and explore my own thoughts beliefs.

I'm still trying to figure out how to say what I'm trying to say.  

You guys didn't change my mind but I feel freer.

There is plenty of space for you to occupy between "the Bible is the literal word of God" and "there is no God".
Moving people into that space is enough of a goal for me, that's enough to eradicate the ugliness of religion and it allows people to have the faith they need to not see life as a bleak, meaningless, and terrifying experience.

FoxyRedLa

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

I'm sorry. I know this isn't the subject. But I'm more exhausted with the racist bullshit back and forth. Daily I deal with did you just say that. Wtf man. Prime example. My white female coworker has convo with black man coworker. Black man is telling story about how he and his brother both stand like their dad. Going on and on lovey dovey. Female coworker says blah blah blah monkey see monkey do blah blah blah you're family is so loving and close. Black coworker stops the convo and says something along the lines of you're lucky you are who you are and we're friends cuz if we weren't....blah blah blah. I was disgusted and immediately turned off. Really? Everyday at work. It's absolutely exhausting.