The Concept of God

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  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    A fun and interesting thing that I noticed a while back is that there is a strong suggestion of God in one of the dominant quantum theories, but you won't find any religious people jumping to talk about observation and wave function collapse lol
    English please. 
    I can explain more but I can't do so in English lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
    The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
    Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

    Cool stuff.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    rgambs said:
    Or perhaps they resonate throughout a multiverse occupying the same space and time influencing each other in subtle and imperceptible ways.
    Whatever they do or wherever they go, it's the closest thing I can imagine as living forever. 

    As for our souls, I sense that we have souls the way I sense there really is a muse that drives our creativity.  What the hell they are, whether or not they really do exist, how they can be explained, how they work- that's beyond me.  And I don't care to quantify or prove or explain them. They are parts of that aspect of life that is mystery, something that I'm quite fond of. I have no need to understand those kinds of things scientifically, and certainly not metaphysically.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,533
    rgambs said:
    At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
    The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
    Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

    Cool stuff.
    why would we need an observer to keep our existence un-chaotic?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
    The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
    Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

    Cool stuff.
    why would we need an observer to keep our existence un-chaotic?
    Because the particles which make us up don't exist in a single time or space unless they are looked at!  Absolutely bonkers, eh?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Arthur C Clarke:
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

    Don't agree, but seems appropriate here.  The concepts of quantum mechanics are dizzying and wild, it's certainly every bit as fantastic as the magical stories religion offers.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,533
    rgambs said:
    Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.
    but how can it be a certainty if the observer isn't observed? how can a probability lend credence to another probabilty making it a certainty if it isn't a certainty itself?
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.
    but how can it be a certainty if the observer isn't observed? how can a probability lend credence to another probabilty making it a certainty if it isn't a certainty itself?
    Hence the universal observer, AKA God!  A separate whatever that plays observer to everything in the universe, but is (probably) necessarily distinct from it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    You think fast Hugh, I'm impressed!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,533
    rgambs said:
    You think fast Hugh, I'm impressed!
    don't be too impressed. this shit makes my head hurt. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    You think fast Hugh, I'm impressed!
    don't be too impressed. this shit makes my head hurt. 
    It's almost literally painful to think of these things lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    The only problem I have with the energy theory is that you may have to believe in reincarnation. Or at least a form of your energy possibly transforming into another human being. I don't know about that. 
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Degeneratefk said:
    The only problem I have with the energy theory is that you may have to believe in reincarnation. Or at least a form of your energy possibly transforming into another human being. I don't know about that. 

    I don't think that would be necessary, just remove linear time instead.
    Or, if you looked at it from a multiverse perspective, you could think of that energy as being shared across all the different versions of you, and when you pass it moves into the others.
    Like that Jet Li movie. 
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    The one where he beats a dude up with a motorcycle.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    rgambs said:
    Degeneratefk said:
    The only problem I have with the energy theory is that you may have to believe in reincarnation. Or at least a form of your energy possibly transforming into another human being. I don't know about that. 

    I don't think that would be necessary, just remove linear time instead.
    Or, if you looked at it from a multiverse perspective, you could think of that energy as being shared across all the different versions of you, and when you pass it moves into the others.
    Like that Jet Li movie. 
    I get what you're saying. But in order to believe that, you have to accept that you may have lived another life somewhere either in the past or somewhere else all together.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Degeneratefk said:
    rgambs said:
    Degeneratefk said:
    The only problem I have with the energy theory is that you may have to believe in reincarnation. Or at least a form of your energy possibly transforming into another human being. I don't know about that. 

    I don't think that would be necessary, just remove linear time instead.
    Or, if you looked at it from a multiverse perspective, you could think of that energy as being shared across all the different versions of you, and when you pass it moves into the others.
    Like that Jet Li movie. 
    I get what you're saying. But in order to believe that, you have to accept that you may have lived another life somewhere either in the past or somewhere else all together.
    More like living an infinite number of lives right now and forever in both directions!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    The Multiverse is rad.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,533
    rgambs said:
    The one where he beats a dude up with a motorcycle.
    this makes so little sense to me I'm sitting here at my desk laughing my ass off. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    rgambs said:
    The one where he beats a dude up with a motorcycle.
    this makes so little sense to me I'm sitting here at my desk laughing my ass off. 
    Hahaha good!  It was a Highlander type Jet Li movie where bad Jet Li travels the multiverse killing all the good Jet Li's and stealing their power.
    I'm pretty sure at one point he picks up a motorcycle and beats someone down with it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?

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