The Concept of God

brianlux

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

catefrances

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 

brianlux

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 

Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well! 

catefrances

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 

Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well! 

doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.   

brianlux

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 

Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well! 

doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.   

Overthinker?  I'm glad I've never done that, haha! But seriously, I was just talking to C. about that, about how it is that some of us just seem to not be able to help delving into thought, either on personal or broader issues.  I would dare to say "better to overthink than to be mindless". 

In any case, love having you here!

catefrances

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

catefrances said:

lastexitlondon said:

New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 

religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  

Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 

Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well! 

doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.   

Overthinker?  I'm glad I've never done that, haha! But seriously, I was just talking to C. about that, about how it is that some of us just seem to not be able to help delving into thought, either on personal or broader issues.  I would dare to say "better to overthink than to be mindless". 

In any case, love having you here!

lol. yeah im a major overthinker and cant help it. my therapist thought meds woud help that and replaced booze... she was wrong.

brianlux

Bill O'Reilly proves God's existence, LOL!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUeybwTMeWo

drakeheuer14

I believe in God and always will. It’s been a while since I have actually gone to church though. 

Still working through my thoughts on organized religion. The fact that so much is up for interpretation has always bothered me (rferencing Christianity). I also don’t like being told how to live my life, but who would? 

Thirty Bills Unpaid

drakeheuer14 said:

I believe in God and always will. It’s been a while since I have actually gone to church though. 

Still working through my thoughts on organized religion. The fact that so much is up for interpretation has always bothered me (rferencing Christianity). I also don’t like being told how to live my life, but who would? 

Sheep like being told what to do and how to live. They wouldn't have it any other way.

goldrush

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

brianlux

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

HughFreakingDillon

God said he would never do it again. 

so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

God said he would never do it again. 

so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 

rgambs

Next time he sends his son to raise 

goldrush

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

goldrush

HughFreakingDillon said:

God said he would never do it again. 

so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 

Well like I said, the guy was pretty convinced and couldn't be argued with.
So it must be God that's full of it

brianlux

goldrush said:

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

You're welcome!  I think that's great.  If you don't mind saying, might I ask what is your native country?  (Not meaning to pry, so OK to pass on that.)

Thank you, I think my theory makes sense.  It's a somewhat convoluted rephrasing of J. B. Phillips' Your God is Too Small which I like in that in the book by that title, Phillips said that once you try to define god in human terms you've made that god too small.  The only problem for me though is that his theory didn't allow enough room for the possibility that perhaps there is no god, which I think is an important factor.

catefrances

goldrush said:

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get.

brianlux

catefrances said:

goldrush said:

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get.

I'll say this truthfully, I never met a bad 'un! 

goldrush

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

brianlux said:

goldrush said:

A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.

First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

(Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)

Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense!

You're welcome!  I think that's great.  If you don't mind saying, might I ask what is your native country?  (Not meaning to pry, so OK to pass on that.)

Thank you, I think my theory makes sense.  It's a somewhat convoluted rephrasing of J. B. Phillips' Your God is Too Small which I like in that in the book by that title, Phillips said that once you try to define god in human terms you've made that god too small.  The only problem for me though is that his theory didn't allow enough room for the possibility that perhaps there is no god, which I think is an important factor.

Not prying at all Brian. I'm from Wales originally, I came down here in 2006 when I was backpacking for a year trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up (I'm 41 now and I still haven't figured that out!) I loved Sydney so much that I moved here permanently in 2010. My wife is Australian, and our son was born here, so it's definitely home now.

When I told my parents about the 2 different citizenship pledges, my mum (who is very religious) got really shitty with me for not making the "under God" pledge! It really shouldn't be a surprise to her by now, but it still felt like I was being judged. Maybe I should introduce her to 'biblical flood guy' from the party...