Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

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  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    mickeyrat said:
    legal, up until the lungs have developed enough to be able to breath , with help, on its own.

    unless its medically certain the baby will not live.

    my cousin just gave birth to a baby that had a hole in its heart as well as a genetic defect called trisomy 18. which is a third chromosome on the 18th chromosome.

    second most common extra chromosome occurance behind downs children.

    my cousin was forced to carry to term knowing the baby would not survive. which her daughter didnt. died shortly after birth. is it right in such cases to force live birth in cases like this?
    This happens in Ireland all the time as we have as yet failed to legislate for abortion in the case of fatal foetal abnormality. It is appalling to force women to suffer through carrying such a child to term knowing they have no chance of life
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mickeyrat said:
    legal, up until the lungs have developed enough to be able to breath , with help, on its own.

    unless its medically certain the baby will not live.

    my cousin just gave birth to a baby that had a hole in its heart as well as a genetic defect called trisomy 18. which is a third chromosome on the 18th chromosome.

    second most common extra chromosome occurance behind downs children.

    my cousin was forced to carry to term knowing the baby would not survive. which her daughter didnt. died shortly after birth. is it right in such cases to force live birth in cases like this?
    No, it’s not right. It’s torture for the woman to carry a fetus she knows will die; torture for the partner and loved ones, and the babies may suffer after birth before they eventually, inevitably die. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Degeneratefk
    Degeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    mickeyrat said:
    legal, up until the lungs have developed enough to be able to breath , with help, on its own.

    unless its medically certain the baby will not live.

    my cousin just gave birth to a baby that had a hole in its heart as well as a genetic defect called trisomy 18. which is a third chromosome on the 18th chromosome.

    second most common extra chromosome occurance behind downs children.

    my cousin was forced to carry to term knowing the baby would not survive. which her daughter didnt. died shortly after birth. is it right in such cases to force live birth in cases like this?
    With help, on its own? It's not on its own if it has help. My thought always used to be if the baby could survive with no help from a machine, don't have The abortion. But now, I think if you get within a month of your due date, you should have one. But I'm not opposed to 3rd trimester abortions at all.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
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  • dudeman
    dudeman Posts: 3,213
    Keep it legal. 
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 45,240
    Degeneratefk said:
    mickeyrat said:
    legal, up until the lungs have developed enough to be able to breath , with help, on its own.

    unless its medically certain the baby will not live.

    my cousin just gave birth to a baby that had a hole in its heart as well as a genetic defect called trisomy 18. which is a third chromosome on the 18th chromosome.

    second most common extra chromosome occurance behind downs children.

    my cousin was forced to carry to term knowing the baby would not survive. which her daughter didnt. died shortly after birth. is it right in such cases to force live birth in cases like this?
    With help, on its own? It's not on its own if it has help. My thought always used to be if the baby could survive with no help from a machine, don't have The abortion. But now, I think if you get within a month of your due date, you should have one. But I'm not opposed to 3rd trimester abortions at all.
    any preemie will have medical intervention....
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  • drakeheuer14
    drakeheuer14 Posts: 4,626
    edited March 2018
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    Post edited by drakeheuer14 on
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  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Aren’t those cases something like 1-2% of abortions? I don’t think it’s fair to call his view extreme, then follow that up with rape and suicide.
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    mace1229 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Aren’t those cases something like 1-2% of abortions? I don’t think it’s fair to call his view extreme, then follow that up with rape and suicide.
    So I'm just to assume he was specifically talking about accidental pregnancies where birth control was not used or failed and where the foetus is viable and healthy and the mother is not suicidal? That's a lot of assumptions to make from his very general disapproval
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,614
    Urging people to practice safer sex is exactly what we should be doing. Attacking people for doing so is counterproductive. And if people disapprove of abortion that is their right.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • drakeheuer14
    drakeheuer14 Posts: 4,626
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Those are the reasons that make it hard. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    edited March 2018
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Those are the reasons that make it hard.




    Would I be right in thinking you still find it hard to accept as a valid decision in such cases?
  • drakeheuer14
    drakeheuer14 Posts: 4,626
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Those are the reasons that make it hard.




    Would I be right in thinking you still find it hard to accept as a valid decision in such cases?
    The validity of the decision wouldn’t be hard to accept. I can’t imagine having to go through that and on top of that finding out I was pregnant. Who knows where my head would be after that. 

    The only thing that is hard is knowing that what could be a perfectly healthy child one day isn’t granted that oppurtunity.

    As a man I would never be in this situation, but if I were I would hope I had the strength to go through with having the child and raising it knowing that it is still part of me or be able to put them up for adoption. 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Those are the reasons that make it hard.




    Would I be right in thinking you still find it hard to accept as a valid decision in such cases?
    The validity of the decision wouldn’t be hard to accept. I can’t imagine having to go through that and on top of that finding out I was pregnant. Who knows where my head would be after that. 

    The only thing that is hard is knowing that what could be a perfectly healthy child one day isn’t granted that oppurtunity.

    As a man I would never be in this situation, but if I were I would hope I had the strength to go through with having the child and raising it knowing that it is still part of me or be able to put them up for adoption. 



    You realise that in saying that you are implying that those victims of rape are showning weakness by choosing to abort the child rather than carrying to term. It is not about strength, it is about women having ownership of their own bodies and the right to make the decision most appropriate to them and their personal situation
  • drakeheuer14
    drakeheuer14 Posts: 4,626
    edited March 2018
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Those are the reasons that make it hard.




    Would I be right in thinking you still find it hard to accept as a valid decision in such cases?
    The validity of the decision wouldn’t be hard to accept. I can’t imagine having to go through that and on top of that finding out I was pregnant. Who knows where my head would be after that. 

    The only thing that is hard is knowing that what could be a perfectly healthy child one day isn’t granted that oppurtunity.

    As a man I would never be in this situation, but if I were I would hope I had the strength to go through with having the child and raising it knowing that it is still part of me or be able to put them up for adoption. 



    You realise that in saying that you are implying that those victims of rape are showning weakness by choosing to abort the child rather than carrying to term. It is not about strength, it is about women having ownership of their own bodies and the right to make the decision most appropriate to them and their personal situation
    If you want to read it that way sure. You think any person that learns a woman was raped and kept the child wouldn’t call them a strong woman? You can read it in a negative context and twist it that way, but that is not what I meant 

    I am sure it is mentally tormenting to decide what to do.

    And to add: I disagree that it is just another part of the womans body when they are pregnant. The child is its own being. Again that can be argued with what you scientifically call a child or not, it’s just what I believe. Also in cases where the father is in the picture it shouldn’t just be the womans choice. That is still the mans child too and they should have a say. I understand that we don’t carry the child, but it shouldnt be so black and white
    Post edited by drakeheuer14 on
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    Well I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree. I do understand that it must be very hard as a man to accept the notion that this should be solely the decision of the woman
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    mace1229 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Aren’t those cases something like 1-2% of abortions? I don’t think it’s fair to call his view extreme, then follow that up with rape and suicide.
    So I'm just to assume he was specifically talking about accidental pregnancies where birth control was not used or failed and where the foetus is viable and healthy and the mother is not suicidal? That's a lot of assumptions to make from his very general disapproval
    You mean something like 95% of the cases? Yeah, I think it would be safe to assume that's what he was referring to. Why is it extreme to focus on the 95%, but somehow not extreme to focus on what only occurs 5% of the time?
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    mace1229 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    mace1229 said:
    jnimhaoileoin said:
    drakeheuer14 said:
    This is a hard subject. I really hate that abortion is even a thing or an option to be discussed. 

    Nothing will ever change my mind that it is just plain wrong though. Even if you believe that it isnt a child at whatever stage, they should have every right to develop into one after conceived. 

    Buy some damn condoms if you don’t want a kid. 

    Edit: I don’t condemn those that do it or hate anyone for it. It just upsets me. 
    That's an extremely simplistic view. What about cases of rape, fatal foetal abnormality and mothers exhibiting suicidal ideation?
    Aren’t those cases something like 1-2% of abortions? I don’t think it’s fair to call his view extreme, then follow that up with rape and suicide.
    So I'm just to assume he was specifically talking about accidental pregnancies where birth control was not used or failed and where the foetus is viable and healthy and the mother is not suicidal? That's a lot of assumptions to make from his very general disapproval
    You mean something like 95% of the cases? Yeah, I think it would be safe to assume that's what he was referring to. Why is it extreme to focus on the 95%, but somehow not extreme to focus on what only occurs 5% of the time?
    Have you any basis for those statistics? I imagine they vary wildly from country to country. For example, Irish women have to travel abroad to have an abortion so it's certainly not something they casually use as a form of birth control
  • mace1229
    mace1229 Posts: 10,039
    I thought that was commonly accepted as a very limited number were for medical reasons or rape. 
    http://www.actionlife.org/index.php/life-issues/abortion/item/124-the-real-reason-women-choose-abortion
  • jnimhaoileoin
    jnimhaoileoin Baile Átha Cliath Posts: 2,682
    mace1229 said:
    I thought that was commonly accepted as a very limited number were for medical reasons or rape. 
    http://www.actionlife.org/index.php/life-issues/abortion/item/124-the-real-reason-women-choose-abortion
    Are you seriously quoting a Pro-Life lobby group? You couldn't at least manage to find an independent source to support your statistics?

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