Abortion-Keep Legal, Yes or No?

PJinIL said: 

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

It's really not relevant. I doubt most woman do consider their bodies well being. Still doesn't change the FACT that it's her body to do as she chooses regardless of the reason. 

I also do not have any facts or figures ,  but I'm guessing if a married woman decides to get an abortion, the husband and the wife would make the decision together.

Of course keep it legal.

To show how much time I spend thinking about this topic, I recently learned that in Canada a pregnancy can be terminated at any stage.  If true, it was interesting fact.  If I’m wrong please correct me.

Meltdown99 said:

Of course keep it legal.

To show how much time I spend thinking about this topic, I recently learned that in Canada a pregnancy can be terminated at any stage.  If true, it was interesting fact.  If I’m wrong please correct me.

It’s correct that there is no federal law limiting  abortion in Canada. The last law prohibiting abortion was struck down 30 years ago. It is now treated as a medical procedure, and thus under provincial jurisdiction. 

Alrhough legal everywhere, availability varies significantly. There is no access to surgical abortion in the province of PEI, and access is very limited in most of the Maritimes. Surgical abortions can occur in hospital or in private clinics. Access to medical abortions is increasing and is funded in most provinces now. 

That’s the broad brushstrokes; there are many details, of course. The Mulroney conservatives in the ‘90s attempted to criminalize abortion again and failed. Trudeau has made it clear he won’t reopen the discussion despite being a staunch Catholic. 

Here’s a review of the legal status:

http://www.nafcanada.org/legal-abortion-ca.html

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

How do you keep it "rare"?
Other than an honor code that is impossible to enforce, I don't see any way to ensure that it is rare.
Like you said, most who are pro-choice agree it should be "legal, safe and rare," I would also argue that most who are pro-life would not only be comfortable with, but insist on exceptions exist for medical and a few other reasons. 

it's unenforcable, obviously. just stating my position that it should be available, but not abused. i was friends with a girl who used it as birth control, seriously. 5 abortions by the age of 23. that sickened me. 

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

How do you keep it "rare"?
Other than an honor code that is impossible to enforce, I don't see any way to ensure that it is rare.
Like you said, most who are pro-choice agree it should be "legal, safe and rare," I would also argue that most who are pro-life would not only be comfortable with, but insist on exceptions exist for medical and a few other reasons. 

it's unenforcable, obviously. just stating my position that it should be available, but not abused. i was friends with a girl who used it as birth control, seriously. 5 abortions by the age of 23. that sickened me. 

I am happy to see the last 2 responses against using it for birth control.
At least for me, my perception is that many are completely okay with abortion as birth control. Maybe my perspective was completely off, but it doesn't help when those who are very outspoken about their stance seem to be proud of their abortions.
That interview with that girl from Goonies made me sick like you described, essentially cheering the fact that she had abortions at a young age and how great it was.
I consider myself pro-life, but really only have issues with abortions used for birth control.

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

How do you keep it "rare"?
Other than an honor code that is impossible to enforce, I don't see any way to ensure that it is rare.
Like you said, most who are pro-choice agree it should be "legal, safe and rare," I would also argue that most who are pro-life would not only be comfortable with, but insist on exceptions exist for medical and a few other reasons. 

it's unenforcable, obviously. just stating my position that it should be available, but not abused. i was friends with a girl who used it as birth control, seriously. 5 abortions by the age of 23. that sickened me. 

I am happy to see the last 2 responses against using it for birth control.
At least for me, my perception is that many are completely okay with abortion as birth control. Maybe my perspective was completely off, but it doesn't help when those who are very outspoken about their stance seem to be proud of their abortions.
That interview with that girl from Goonies made me sick like you described, essentially cheering the fact that she had abortions at a young age and how great it was.
I consider myself pro-life, but really only have issues with abortions used for birth control.

I don't know about that interview, but I also haven't seen anyone who is "proud" of their abortions or use it as birth control. many use the stance of "none of your business" if you ask what their reasons are, but I highly doubt that even a small minority use it like that. 

I think that would be an interesting stat. Probably hard to determine an accurate number due to the personal nature, and the typical response of "none of your business."
I have never once asked a women if she's had an abortion or the reason behind it, but the ones that freely talk about it usually seem to be for birth control. So that can easily skew my viewpoint. It may just be the ones who get it for medical reasons just chose not to talk about it and I would understand that.

But I have to believe that number who use it as birth control is a significant portion. Just looking at a few sites I couldn't get an exact number, but this pro-choice/woman site had some stats that makes me believe the majority probably are birth control.
Quoting stats like the majority of pregnancies are unplanned, half of women who get an abortion have had at least one before. To me that sounds like birth control would be more likely, and not a woman who got pregnant and then discovered some illness in her child or other medical issues. 
http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_stats.html

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

How do you keep it "rare"?
Other than an honor code that is impossible to enforce, I don't see any way to ensure that it is rare.
Like you said, most who are pro-choice agree it should be "legal, safe and rare," I would also argue that most who are pro-life would not only be comfortable with, but insist on exceptions exist for medical and a few other reasons. 

it's unenforcable, obviously. just stating my position that it should be available, but not abused. i was friends with a girl who used it as birth control, seriously. 5 abortions by the age of 23. that sickened me. 

I am happy to see the last 2 responses against using it for birth control.
At least for me, my perception is that many are completely okay with abortion as birth control. Maybe my perspective was completely off, but it doesn't help when those who are very outspoken about their stance seem to be proud of their abortions.
That interview with that girl from Goonies made me sick like you described, essentially cheering the fact that she had abortions at a young age and how great it was.
I consider myself pro-life, but really only have issues with abortions used for birth control.

I don't know about that interview, but I also haven't seen anyone who is "proud" of their abortions or use it as birth control. many use the stance of "none of your business" if you ask what their reasons are, but I highly doubt that even a small minority use it like that. 

I think that would be an interesting stat. Probably hard to determine an accurate number due to the personal nature, and the typical response of "none of your business."
I have never once asked a women if she's had an abortion or the reason behind it, but the ones that freely talk about it usually seem to be for birth control. So that can easily skew my viewpoint. It may just be the ones who get it for medical reasons just chose not to talk about it and I would understand that.

But I have to believe that number who use it as birth control is a significant portion. Just looking at a few sites I couldn't get an exact number, but this pro-choice/woman site had some stats that makes me believe the majority probably are birth control.
Quoting stats like the majority of pregnancies are unplanned, half of women who get an abortion have had at least one before. To me that sounds like birth control would be more likely, and not a woman who got pregnant and then discovered some illness in her child or other medical issues. 
http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_stats.html

I think you are using the phrase “using it for birth control” in a different way than I am and that I suspect most people do. I’m sure it’s true that most abortions are not for “medical” reasons, such as fetal abnormality or a serious maternal health condition that makes pregnancy dangerous. However, lots of abortions are due to contraception failure or lack of ability to access contraception.  The vast majority of women getting abortions are not completely neglecting contraception and then happily aborting the resulting fetus. 

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

I say let a woman do whatever she wants with her body.  It’s definitely not a form of birth control though, that’s super duper fucked up.

Why is that fucked up? That woman clearly is not ready to be a mother. That is the smartest woman alive. How many thousands of tax payer dollars has she saved by making the RIGHT CHOICE to not keep the fetus? 

No, money isn't the only concern. Her personal situation matters too. Overpopulation is a real concern. Why can't abortions be used as birth control? As long as they're done properly, does it put the woman in any danger? 

oftenreading said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJinIL said:

The whole argument about it being the woman's body is skewed to me. I don't have facts or articles to point to, but I'd believe the majority of decisions made about having an abortion are more about the lifestyle changes and obligations that come with parenthood, not the actual decision of whether the woman is worried about her physical being. So it becomes a decision of "do I want a baby or not?" That is a very different discussion than "do I fear for my life and birthing complications enough to abort?"

Think of it this way, if a woman who finds herself pregnant could have the embryo/fetus/etc taken out to be developed to term in another environment, would she still want the baby? If she doesn't want the baby either way, I think that's a barometer for telling the woman she doesn't qualify for an abortion, it's totally elective and a selfish decision that does affect other people's lives. Thus, I believe in some injection (get it?) of father's rights in elective decisions. I do NOT believe a father should have authority to make the mother have an abortion.

Not to say the decision isn't torturous, I thought my girlfriend in HS got pregnant and we were scared out of our minds when she was 3-4 days late. Over the next couple of days, neither of us could say it was right to think about having an abortion. Turns out, she got her period about 2 hours after we made the decision to keep it, much to our delight. Never been so happy to have a girlfriend with a period in my life!

this is why most agree it should be legal, safe, and RARE. I don't think anyone is positing that some women abort out of fear of the possibility of complications. is that what you are saying?

How do you keep it "rare"?
Other than an honor code that is impossible to enforce, I don't see any way to ensure that it is rare.
Like you said, most who are pro-choice agree it should be "legal, safe and rare," I would also argue that most who are pro-life would not only be comfortable with, but insist on exceptions exist for medical and a few other reasons. 

it's unenforcable, obviously. just stating my position that it should be available, but not abused. i was friends with a girl who used it as birth control, seriously. 5 abortions by the age of 23. that sickened me. 

I am happy to see the last 2 responses against using it for birth control.
At least for me, my perception is that many are completely okay with abortion as birth control. Maybe my perspective was completely off, but it doesn't help when those who are very outspoken about their stance seem to be proud of their abortions.
That interview with that girl from Goonies made me sick like you described, essentially cheering the fact that she had abortions at a young age and how great it was.
I consider myself pro-life, but really only have issues with abortions used for birth control.

I don't know about that interview, but I also haven't seen anyone who is "proud" of their abortions or use it as birth control. many use the stance of "none of your business" if you ask what their reasons are, but I highly doubt that even a small minority use it like that. 

I think that would be an interesting stat. Probably hard to determine an accurate number due to the personal nature, and the typical response of "none of your business."
I have never once asked a women if she's had an abortion or the reason behind it, but the ones that freely talk about it usually seem to be for birth control. So that can easily skew my viewpoint. It may just be the ones who get it for medical reasons just chose not to talk about it and I would understand that.

But I have to believe that number who use it as birth control is a significant portion. Just looking at a few sites I couldn't get an exact number, but this pro-choice/woman site had some stats that makes me believe the majority probably are birth control.
Quoting stats like the majority of pregnancies are unplanned, half of women who get an abortion have had at least one before. To me that sounds like birth control would be more likely, and not a woman who got pregnant and then discovered some illness in her child or other medical issues. 
http://www.womenscenter.com/abortion_stats.html

I think you are using the phrase “using it for birth control” in a different way than I am and that I suspect most people do. I’m sure it’s true that most abortions are not for “medical” reasons, such as fetal abnormality or a serious maternal health condition that makes pregnancy dangerous. However, lots of abortions are due to contraception failure or lack of ability to access contraception.  The vast majority of women getting abortions are not completely neglecting contraception and then happily aborting the resulting fetus. 

I honestly don't get the argument of "don't have access" or "Can't afford it," and even lack of education in some circumstances.
Although I know many are worse off than me, we definitely struggle with finances. With a MA and 10 years of experience in public education, if we made $200 less a month we would actually qualify for welfare, which is really sad and depressing honestly. That only accounts for gross pay, it completely ignores that my employer takes out $1000 a month for benefits, so there are literally people on welfare who make $800 a month more than I do in take-home pay ( even more when I consider taxes, retirement, etc).

I only bring that up because I have discussed with my wife our options for birth control. We take into consideration cost and other benefits. Sorry to disappoint everyone on here, but I won't get into too many details about my sex life. But I will say we have chosen methods that were far down on our list of preferences, but chose it because it was effective and affordable when other methods were not covered or too expensive.

I just don't get that defense because condoms really are pretty cheap (especially for what you get out of them). I place the responsibility on the man just as much as the woman, but I know it is her that gets stuck being pregnant. If she's not in a relationship there's no reason not to expect the man to use protection. Zero reason for it. If she is in a relationship, and he is unwilling to help provide or use protection, then there is zero reason not to dump his lazy butt to the curb.
We aren't in a third world country here, birth control is available. It is very easy to find, probably don't have to drive 5 minutes to find 10 different stores selling some. So I really just don't agree with the lack of ability to access it, it just doesn't exist in this country. Birth control is cheaper than 1 drink at the bar.

Failed methods I will give you that. Lack of education I'd give that one too for a teenager. But really, how many abortions are a result of lack of education? If you're on your second or third I think it's time to stop blaming education at that point.

cincybearcat said:

dankind said:

jeffbr said:

Keep it legal and safe. This is a personal, private decision made by a woman about her body. It shouldn't be a policy decision made by wrinkly old men.

I'll take it further. My opinion on this shouldn't even matter. Neither should anyone's with a Y chromosome.

Yeah cause men aren't involved in making a baby nor are 50% of babies boys.  I hate this argument.

well until men can carry to term, .....