Tax Reform

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    Gern Blansten said:
    What is crazy is that they keep yapping about how the standard deduction doubled...basically from $12K to $24K for married joint....yet they don't mention that personal exemptions are gone.  For a family of four that is a deduction of $ 16K...so you gain a $12K deduction and lose a $16K deduction.  

    That's fucked up
    This is where this tax plan hurts me.  My deductions were always in the 40-50k range.  After the first bill, my taxable was going up by $30k.  My wife hasn't run the numbers on the final plan though.  
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,237
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    German kids were definitely losing after Versailles. ;)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    German kids were definitely losing after Versailles. ;)
    Touche... and don't forget about the Ottoman boys and girls.  
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,237
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    German kids were definitely losing after Versailles. ;)
    Touche... and don't forget about the Ottoman boys and girls.  
    am I now austrian or hungarian?  who the hell are these new polish and czech kids down the block?!  and the poor japanese kids were soo ignored they decided to take out their aggression on such a beautiful island 23 year later.  poor kids.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    German kids were definitely losing after Versailles. ;)
    Touche... and don't forget about the Ottoman boys and girls.  
    am I now austrian or hungarian?  who the hell are these new polish and czech kids down the block?!  and the poor japanese kids were soo ignored they decided to take out their aggression on such a beautiful island 23 year later.  poor kids.  
    With a name like McGruff, I just assumed you were a Prussian Irishman.  
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,689
    cincybearcat said:
    Go Beavers said:
    cincybearcat said:
    This tax plan was always about the corporate rate 1st and foremost.  And that's not really a bad thing at all.  I'm just pissed it was rushed as I was hoping for actual tax reform....making everything easier...and a tax plan that didn't add so much to the deficit.  

    I'm a big fan of keeping the $ I make and believe there are too many people paying for too many others that aren't.  But I'm confused about how you can pass a tax plan that adds so much $ to the debt...makes no sense to me.  Not in this economy.
    Is it a problem for you that a lot of people are paying more in taxes than you are?
    A higher %....yeah it does actually.  But there are far more paying less than are paying more.  But not really sure where this question is coming from.
    Do you think people earning lesss than you should pay more in taxes?
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,813
    Somebody suggested anyone feeling over-worked and over taxed would do well to look into Subchapter T.  I'm not all that interested in figuring this out because a) when it comes to trying to grok economics my brain freezes, b) I'm getting too old to care and and c) I seem to like over-working myself anyway.  But some of you here might find this useful:

    http://www.co-oplaw.org/finances-tax/worker-cooperatives-and-tax/

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    1913.

    My sincere apologies.
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,237
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    German kids were definitely losing after Versailles. ;)
    Touche... and don't forget about the Ottoman boys and girls.  
    am I now austrian or hungarian?  who the hell are these new polish and czech kids down the block?!  and the poor japanese kids were soo ignored they decided to take out their aggression on such a beautiful island 23 year later.  poor kids.  
    With a name like McGruff, I just assumed you were a Prussian Irishman.  
    lol.  I'm actually half lithuanian half irish (real last name mcgrath).
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    1913.

    My sincere apologies.
    Fine..13... so explain how the world is worse today for children in the US than it was in 1913. I'm looking forward to the empirical data you have to support that assertion.  I
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    1913.

    My sincere apologies.
    Fine..13... so explain how the world is worse today for children in the US than it was in 1913. I'm looking forward to the empirical data you have to support that assertion.  I

    Infant death rate in the US in 1913 was about 150/1,000. In 2012 it was about 6/1,000, but I guess to a libertarian that's winning. Only the strong survived.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017

    My sincere apologies.oftenreading said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Kids have been losing since 1917.  Now it bothers you? 
    To be fair, I wasn't alive at the end of the Great War.. but please explain how the advent of the League of Nations or Versailles changed the paradigm where kids that were formerly winning, began losing.  Love me a good history debate.  Let's go.  
    1913.

    My sincere apologies.
    Fine..13... so explain how the world is worse today for children in the US than it was in 1913. I'm looking forward to the empirical data you have to support that assertion.  I

    Infant death rate in the US in 1913 was about 150/1,000. In 2012 it was about 6/1,000, but I guess to a libertarian that's winning. Only the strong survived.
    An excellent metric to start for sure.  Do most non-racist Americans think the world was better off when black children in the South couldn't attend public schools with adequate funding?  How about their fathers who weren't allowed to vote at all due to BS literacy tests and poll taxes?  Did that make their lives better?  We should probably think about young girls who couldn't grow up and vote to make a difference at all, regardless of color.  What about gay people that were beaten senseless or killed for the way God created them?  What if you were a gay, black, girl in the South.  The world must have been your oyster compared to today.  

    And this is before we talk about poverty metrics, access to healthcare (vaccines, care for polio, influenza, etc.).  But wait... maybe you're talking about the dastardly Keating-Owen Act which set actual standards and rules for employing children and the start of protecting them in the workplace in 1916.  Yes... certainly that really negatively impacted children in this country as they could no longer slave for 18 hours a day fixing factory equipment because they had the unique skill of being small enough to fit.  That must have really pissed those kids off.

    So go ahead, @unsung, tell us how great things were for American children before 1913 compared to 2016.  Can't wait to read about it.  
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    edited December 2017
    Image result for pictures of kids in the mines

    Kids had it easy back in the day. We need to go back and MAGA!!!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 31,017
    dignin said:
    Image result for pictures of kids in the mines

    Kids had it easy back in the day. We need to go back and MAGA!!!
    Yeah, and then once they were old (17..you know.. a full life behind them) they were lucky enough to fight for an empire's army in one of the ongoing inter-continental wars that ravaged Europe for about 400 years.  Fortunately they shared in the spoils of course.. you know.. trickle down plunder.  Those that sacrifice the most earn the most after the war.  

    But then, post WWII, the fucking "globalists" came around and created an inter-connected world economy where peace became more profitable than war.  The result, sadly, has been 70+ years of no inter-continental war, a higher standard of living across the world than ever before and longer life expectancy.  Probably the longest period of peace since the Middle Ages.  Fucking liberals.  

    Sorry, go ahead @unsung.  Continue please.  
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Come on guys, you know the apocalypse started the day they created the Federal Reserve.
    Don't act like you don't know it.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    uh Oh!    Bonuses and wage raises being announced by companies based on anticipated savings.   Were Trump and Ryan right?  It’s a conspiracy!

    i think the Dems’ boat is starting to leak.

    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,513
    EdsonNascimento said:
    uh Oh!    Bonuses and wage raises being announced by companies based on anticipated savings.   Were Trump and Ryan right?  It’s a conspiracy!

    i think the Dems’ boat is starting to leak.

    Yeah! Let's make it even better by tossing another trillion at the national debt. That'll show those snowflakes.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    tbergs said:
    EdsonNascimento said:
    uh Oh!    Bonuses and wage raises being announced by companies based on anticipated savings.   Were Trump and Ryan right?  It’s a conspiracy!

    i think the Dems’ boat is starting to leak.

    Yeah! Let's make it even better by tossing another trillion at the national debt. That'll show those snowflakes.
    So the ten trillion added from 2009-2017 bothered you too? Can you link me to the thread that showed your disgust?
  • EdsonNascimento
    EdsonNascimento Posts: 5,531
    tbergs said:
    EdsonNascimento said:
    uh Oh!    Bonuses and wage raises being announced by companies based on anticipated savings.   Were Trump and Ryan right?  It’s a conspiracy!

    i think the Dems’ boat is starting to leak.

    Yeah! Let's make it even better by tossing another trillion at the national debt. That'll show those snowflakes.
    Let’s see if you guys can follow along.  What do you think is coming next year?  Guaranteed not to fill gap, but still. This is step 1in a 2 step process.  

    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.

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