Tax Reform

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Comments

  • CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Define slavery.  Can you?
    Are you really trying to equate participating in a democratically governed society to slavery??  

    Are you really trying to compare any aspect of your life to slavery??

    Are you really claiming to be a slave??

    What is the matter with you??
    And I’m the one that needs help? And I feel fine! Thank you!
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Go Beavers said:0
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    You don't have a right to my labor.
    Where’d you get your rights?
    I was born with them.
    You weren’t born with them. You were born in a location where these rights were put into place by people and then maintained and enforced by people. 
    No, you are wrong.  Everyone is born with their rights, only their governments take them away.  Government doesn't grant Rights, government allows privileges. 

    If you were born on a random island you do whatever you want, until someone says that you can't.

    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    You don't have a right to my labor.
    Where’d you get your rights?
    I was born with them.
    You weren’t born with them. You were born in a location where these rights were put into place by people and then maintained and enforced by people. 
    No, you are wrong.  Everyone is born with their rights, only their governments take them away.  Government doesn't grant Rights, government allows privileges. 

    If you were born on a random island you do whatever you want, until someone says that you can't.
    No, people try to take each other's "rights" away, government is the only thing that protects you.
    You say I have no right to your labor, what if I say, "too bad, I'm taking your shit"?
    Do you think your guns protect you?  That's childishly laughable.


    I don't understand how you can fail to see how soundly your clever catch phrases get destroyed when faced with reality.  
    I am so glad the Founding Fathers didn't think this way.

    Wow, just wow.  Smh.
    The same founding fathers (i.e. government) that outlined and establshed rights and how the government would maintain and protect them?
    The same one that shot the British who also thought they gave you your Rights.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited December 2017
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Define slavery.  Can you?
    Are you really trying to equate participating in a democratically governed society to slavery??  

    Are you really trying to compare any aspect of your life to slavery??

    Are you really claiming to be a slave??

    What is the matter with you??
    I didn't make the comparison, you did.
    I asked a question.
    You can't define it?
    Post edited by unsung on
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,083
    unsung said:
    Go Beavers said:0
    unsung said:
    rgambs said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    You don't have a right to my labor.
    Where’d you get your rights?
    I was born with them.
    You weren’t born with them. You were born in a location where these rights were put into place by people and then maintained and enforced by people. 
    No, you are wrong.  Everyone is born with their rights, only their governments take them away.  Government doesn't grant Rights, government allows privileges. 

    If you were born on a random island you do whatever you want, until someone says that you can't.

    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    You don't have a right to my labor.
    Where’d you get your rights?
    I was born with them.
    You weren’t born with them. You were born in a location where these rights were put into place by people and then maintained and enforced by people. 
    No, you are wrong.  Everyone is born with their rights, only their governments take them away.  Government doesn't grant Rights, government allows privileges. 

    If you were born on a random island you do whatever you want, until someone says that you can't.
    No, people try to take each other's "rights" away, government is the only thing that protects you.
    You say I have no right to your labor, what if I say, "too bad, I'm taking your shit"?
    Do you think your guns protect you?  That's childishly laughable.


    I don't understand how you can fail to see how soundly your clever catch phrases get destroyed when faced with reality.  
    I am so glad the Founding Fathers didn't think this way.

    Wow, just wow.  Smh.
    The same founding fathers (i.e. government) that outlined and establshed rights and how the government would maintain and protect them?
    The same one that shot the British who also thought they gave you your Rights.
    And we circle back to the inevitable Libertarian ideological pick and choose. The Constitution isn’t a blank sheet of paper. 
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Posts: 10,762
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Define slavery.  Can you?
    Are you really trying to equate participating in a democratically governed society to slavery??  

    Are you really trying to compare any aspect of your life to slavery??

    Are you really claiming to be a slave??

    What is the matter with you??
    Isn't  he in a union?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,518
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Define slavery.  Can you?
    Are you really trying to equate participating in a democratically governed society to slavery??  

    Are you really trying to compare any aspect of your life to slavery??

    Are you really claiming to be a slave??

    What is the matter with you??
    Isn't  he in a union?
    No way I’m convinced he mines gold and other minerals and then trades it for food & clothing 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,083
    edited December 2017
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    In what way is government determining labor value?
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Setting a minimum wage.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,668
    unsung said:
    Setting a minimum wage.
    Got any examples of laissez faire capitalism working perfectly in a society? Because I'm sure we can all think of lots of examples where lack of regulation went horribly wrong. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,016
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Setting a minimum wage.
    Got any examples of laissez faire capitalism working perfectly in a society? Because I'm sure we can all think of lots of examples where lack of regulation went horribly wrong. 
    First one that comes to mind:

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    Still waiting.
  • unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    Still waiting.

    You think the 'free market' (complete deregulation) would treat the labor pool with decency and respect?

    There is significant history that speaks to the contrary. There are areas on the earth that speak to the contrary.

    You are asking for a major step backwards.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,668
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    Still waiting.
    Waiting for what?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    Still waiting.
    Waiting for what?
    unsung is waiting for his poly-sci / econ 101 tutorial

    libertarian philosophy has left him with an overly simplistic utopian view of the world and he needs help understanding the complex socio-economic nuances of reality
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,668
    CM189191 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Why is it that leftists think they still own the production of others?

    There is no utility to your labor, if it weren't for the societal structure that surrounds you. 

    Without society, your labor carries no value.

    If there wasn't a societal structure to assign value to your labor, you and whatever it is that you produce are worthless.
    So society should determine labor value?  Sounds rather Libertarian, LOL.  Muh free markets!

    Glad you finally agree.  Free markets should determine labor value, not government.
    Still waiting...
    Still waiting.
    Waiting for what?
    unsung is waiting for his poly-sci / econ 101 tutorial

    libertarian philosophy has left him with an overly simplistic utopian view of the world and he needs help understanding the complex socio-economic nuances of reality
    It would be fantastic if one, pure economic philosophy could work, but what any cursory review of history shows is that pure ideology is folly.  Communism, socialism, fascism, feudalism, pure capitalism; they have all failed the people.  
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,260
    They dream of AynRandistan....
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Yeah, why not actually try it.


  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,260
    unsung said:
    Yeah, why not actually try it.


    They did...it's called Haiti
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • unsung said:
    Yeah, why not actually try it.


    They did...it's called Haiti
    Twice, don’t forget Somalia.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    Here we go...

    Another fake news by the left.  Somalia has too many governments.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,083
    unsung said:
    Here we go...

    Another fake news by the left.  Somalia has too many governments.
    Who/where is a good example?
  • CM189191CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    unsung said:
    Here we go...

    Another fake news by the left.  Somalia has too many governments.
    Who/where is a good example?
    Kansas is a good example...

    ...more like a warning, really
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,668
    unsung said:
    Yeah, why not actually try it.


    Well it was tried in the market, without regulation,  in the early 20th century.  It failed miserably.  All of these theories fail to account for the folly and corruption of humans. 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mrussel1 said:
    unsung said:
    Yeah, why not actually try it.


    Well it was tried in the market, without regulation,  in the early 20th century.  It failed miserably.  All of these theories fail to account for the folly and corruption of humans. 
    Expect crickets 
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • Can't wait for all of the Cletuses to fuck this up or not even be aware of it and end up having to file revised statements, get audited or end up paying fines and back taxes because, golly gee, look at my paycheck, its bigly! Something tells me this is by Team Trump Treason's design in a revenue grab of smoke and mirrors.

    In the rush for Americans to see bigger paychecks, the Treasury Department is asking companies to rely on outdated forms to determine withholdings. That could put millions of workers at risk of overpaying or underpaying their taxes unless they double-check their paychecks using a new Internal Revenue Service tool.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,495
    Tomorrow s pay day!! Will my paycheck go up or down?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Tomorrow s pay day!! Will my paycheck go up or down?
    Use the calculator to be sure.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 Posts: 28,495
    mcgruff10 said:
    Tomorrow s pay day!! Will my paycheck go up or down?
    Use the calculator to be sure.
    I ll count with my fingers because I m sure it won't be much. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Tomorrow s pay day!! Will my paycheck go up or down?
    Use the calculator to be sure.
    I ll count with my fingers because I m sure it won't be much. 
    Don't quaff any beer before you do, then. Mistakes happen.
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