The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

OP  With all due respect you started this thread with
"so basically the point of this thread is not to argue about faith, or try to convince someone else that you are right or they are wrong. just, what do you think god is, if you believe a god exists?

Now I'm not one to argue semantics but as a person who does not believe god exists suggests that anyone who thinks this way as well should not post in this thread.  I believe anything religious orientated will bring cross opines.  I understand the rules of respecting a thread but one can't interject every now and then like the hand of god to sway a conversation that was based on a pointed question.

the original question had zero to do with religion, you can talk about belief in a god without steering it that way. but people always have to chime in and talk about how stupid everyone else's beliefs are to put themselves back in their tower above everyone else. i don't get why it can't be a respectful discussion about beliefs.

one can interject any time they wish. out of town, in town, doesn't matter. there aren't statute of limitations on when i can post. you need to stop trying to be a mod. 

It really isn't that simple though, religion IS how God is defined.
Leaving religion out of it makes it a non-topic.  
Comments can be made about the nature of God, sure, but the discussion is always going to circle back the the way God is defined and worshipped.

i disagree. god has been around much longer than organized religion. religions do define god, but god does not define religion. man does. god can exist without religion. there are many people who aren't religious who believe in a higher power. my question was very simple and direct: if you believe in god, what do you think god is? 

if people can't keep religion out of it, then that's their shortfall. 

So the thread should have consisted of 15-20 people's concept of God and done?

Why is discourse so frowned upon by some?

it's not. but when that discourse careens into bashing entire groups of people, that is frowned upon. especially when that was mentioned in the first two posts. 

It's just that this thread is going along just fine - I don't understand the apparent need for an intervention into something that doesn't need it.

I also don't think that a conversation about the concept of God can adequately happen without discussing religion. It's impossible IMO.

as to your first statement: the thread was devolving. i was not the only one in thinking so. it was not an intervention. it a comment on the path of the thread. whether you think it was necessary is irrelevant. 

your second statement is false. many people believe in god and don't subscribe to nor participate in any organized religion. it's actually quite common, whether you believe it or not. it's called spirituality. 

religion being defined as the worship of god does make the opposite true. 

carry on as you wish. i commented on the state of the thread as i saw it at the time and i stand by it. 

To your comment about what I think being irrelevant: Right back at ya buddy. We're all just stating our opinions here, and one's isn't more or less relevant that the other's.

Secondly, no, my second statement isn't false. You're just misinterpreting it. I didn't say that everyone has to be religious to believe in God. I said that a conversation about the concept of God can't adequately take place without religion coming up. Those are two very different things. Sorry your thread isn't following your exact personal expectations, but that isn't how discussion forums work.

rgambs said:

How is something indefinable?
That concept itself is the least definable one I can think of.

Everything is definable, how can something exist and not be described?

God.

brianlux said:

If everything can be defined and there is nothing that cannot be defined, why do we have the word, "ineffable"?

Hyperbole lol

Annafalk said:

"Treat others the same way you want them to treat you" 
"Love your next as yourself"
There are also many beautiful things written in the Bible.

Oh, there's absolutely no doubt about that!  
It's especially true if you take the silly myths as parables and fables rather than literal truths.

The problem is that there are beautiful and deep things written in many texts that we can learn from, but those are all cast aside by the Bible and those who cling to it.
What about Rumi?
The Ayurvedas?
Shakespeare?
Milton?
Whitman Wordsworth Donne Shelley Keats Emerson Lennon Vedder etc etc

Annafalk said:

"Treat others the same way you want them to treat you" 
"Love your next as yourself"
There are also many beautiful things written in the Bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi

Not from the bible...plagiarized from the Code

Gern Blansten said:

Annafalk said:

"Treat others the same way you want them to treat you" 
"Love your next as yourself"
There are also many beautiful things written in the Bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi

Not from the bible...plagiarized from the Code

Makes me wonder if the Bible just happened to be in the "right place at the right time" and was escalated as "the one book".

I was using the term loosely.  So many other books, collections of books, they don't get the notoriety of the Bible.  Just saying.

brianlux said:

The Bible has some nice passages of wisdom to be sure, but the problem for me that arise are twofold, first that (for me) nagging business  "the Father" (where's the Mother?) and second, the denial of natures place of importance in the world.  Here's a classic example of what I mean.  There is some fine wisdom here that is sabotaged by the idea that some unseen "Father" meets our basic needs and an egregious misunderstanding of how nature works.:

MATTHEW 6:25-24 (ASV)

25 Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Are we of more value than birds (read as all none human life)?  No, of course not.  Were it not for other life, we would not be alive.

That's not what that passage means. It's not putting nature as second fiddle really. That passage is about worrying. Do not worry about what you will eat or what you will wear. Don't go after material things. It says that the birds of the air do not toil or work hard, but God provides for them. The Lilies are dressed in the field, and are beautiful, but Solomon, with all his wisdom and riches, was never clothed as beautiful as the those flowers. The flowers and the animals simple do their job and don't worry about other things. If you seek first the kingdom of God, all of those things will be taken care of like he has taken care of the animals and the rest of nature. That whole chapter is basically about living a simple life and not worrying about how much money you have, or self proclaiming how good you are and how many people you help.

ponytd said:

brianlux said:

The Bible has some nice passages of wisdom to be sure, but the problem for me that arise are twofold, first that (for me) nagging business  "the Father" (where's the Mother?) and second, the denial of natures place of importance in the world.  Here's a classic example of what I mean.  There is some fine wisdom here that is sabotaged by the idea that some unseen "Father" meets our basic needs and an egregious misunderstanding of how nature works.:

MATTHEW 6:25-24 (ASV)

25 Therefore I say unto you, Be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? 26 Behold the birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye of much more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add one cubit unto the measure of his life? 28 And why are ye anxious concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29 yet I say unto you, that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? 31 Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 For after all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. 33 But seek ye first his kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 34 Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

Are we of more value than birds (read as all none human life)?  No, of course not.  Were it not for other life, we would not be alive.

That's not what that passage means. It's not putting nature as second fiddle really. That passage is about worrying. Do not worry about what you will eat or what you will wear. Don't go after material things. It says that the birds of the air do not toil or work hard, but God provides for them. The Lilies are dressed in the field, and are beautiful, but Solomon, with all his wisdom and riches, was never clothed as beautiful as the those flowers. The flowers and the animals simple do their job and don't worry about other things. If you seek first the kingdom of God, all of those things will be taken care of like he has taken care of the animals and the rest of nature. That whole chapter is basically about living a simple life and not worrying about how much money you have, or self proclaiming how good you are and how many people you help.

"Are not ye of much more value than they?"

I say, no.

RYME said:

Gern Blansten said:

Annafalk said:

"Treat others the same way you want them to treat you" 
"Love your next as yourself"
There are also many beautiful things written in the Bible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_of_Hammurabi

Not from the bible...plagiarized from the Code

Well I don't know what the Code is.
The Golden Rule originated in Matthew 7:12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you: do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Love they neighbor, is mentioned several times.
Matthew 22
22:37 Jesus said unto him, thou shalt love the Lord the God with all the heart and soul, and with all the mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Also again Mark Chapter 12. Read it for yourself.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark+12:28-31&version=KJV

The golden rule is articulated in Matthew, yes, but certainly didn't originate in Matthew. In fact, virtually all religions include a version of what we call the golden rule. It was codified in many ancient societies much predating the bible. The bible does not have dibs on compassion.