The Concept of God

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,899
    brianlux said:
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

    tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    brianlux said:
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

    tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 
    Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well!  :smile:
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,899
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

    tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 
    Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well!  :smile:
    doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.  :) 
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

    tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 
    Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well!  :smile:
    doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.  :) 
    Overthinker?  I'm glad I've never done that, haha! But seriously, I was just talking to C. about that, about how it is that some of us just seem to not be able to help delving into thought, either on personal or broader issues.  I would dare to say "better to overthink than to be mindless". 

    In any case, love having you here!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,899
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    New here. I have no faith or god. I do not hate on those who do. I understand faith not so much god. But like the guys just said if it works for you then im pleased you found your peace. Also i would add religions can be very against eachother with makes me confused because surly they about love and acceptance. But most seem to alienate groups of people i.e gay people. I love all people probably too much for my own good. 
    religion does this because it was invented (obviously along with the various gods) by man. Man created God in his own image and because mankind is flawed it stands to reason theat religion is flawed, some would say hypocritical.  i have no religion. i was born atheist, as we all were. not many years after that i challenged the christian belief system and consequently thrown out of scripture class more than once. a child of 11, thrown out of class for seeking a 'truth'. instead of guidance i was pushed aside. as the precocious inquisitive child i was back then, being dismissed by a catholic priest didnt sit well.. so i started my own quest and guess what? i found no answers to back up the faith i was expected to just accept. it didnt take me long to discover that the search for truth in faith was futile. i just accepted i had no faith in god/s and was/am okay with that. tbh its been the surest, most stable doubtless thing in my life.  
    Oh if only we were all challenged to question more as children!  Good show!  And good to see you here, Cate!

    tbh brian, i was drinking last night and  before i knew it id signed up to 10c. seems the meds are not working. 
    Your presence here is our gain!  Hope you're doing well!  :smile:
    doing well? im  not sure.  turns out i have some mental issues i need to deal with. im always gonna have  an opinion. and as im sure youre aware i am an overthinker, so... but its good to be somewhere where at least some  know what im about.  :) 
    Overthinker?  I'm glad I've never done that, haha! But seriously, I was just talking to C. about that, about how it is that some of us just seem to not be able to help delving into thought, either on personal or broader issues.  I would dare to say "better to overthink than to be mindless". 

    In any case, love having you here!
    lol. yeah im a major overthinker and cant help it. my therapist thought meds woud help that and replaced booze... she was wrong. :/
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    Bill O'Reilly proves God's existence, LOL!


    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • drakeheuer14drakeheuer14 Posts: 2,314
    I believe in God and always will. It’s been a while since I have actually gone to church though. 

    Still working through my thoughts on organized religion. The fact that so much is up for interpretation has always bothered me (rferencing Christianity). I also don’t like being told how to live my life, but who would? 
    Pittsburgh 2013
    Cincinnati 2014
    Greenville 2016
    (Raleigh 2016)
    Columbia 2016
  • I believe in God and always will. It’s been a while since I have actually gone to church though. 

    Still working through my thoughts on organized religion. The fact that so much is up for interpretation has always bothered me (rferencing Christianity). I also don’t like being told how to live my life, but who would? 

    Sheep like being told what to do and how to live. They wouldn't have it any other way.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 4,376
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 17,226
    God said he would never do it again. 

    so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 
    "It's so nice when toxic people stop talking to you.
    It's like the trash took itself out"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 45,960
    God said he would never do it again. 

    so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 
    :lol:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,811
    Next time he sends his son to raise 
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 4,376
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 4,376
    God said he would never do it again. 

    so either this guy is full of shit or god's a liar. 
    Well like I said, the guy was pretty convinced and couldn't be argued with.
    So it must be God that's full of it :)
    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    You're welcome!  I think that's great.  If you don't mind saying, might I ask what is your native country?  (Not meaning to pry, so OK to pass on that.)

    Thank you, I think my theory makes sense.  It's a somewhat convoluted rephrasing of J. B. Phillips' Your God is Too Small which I like in that in the book by that title, Phillips said that once you try to define god in human terms you've made that god too small.  The only problem for me though is that his theory didn't allow enough room for the possibility that perhaps there is no god, which I think is an important factor.
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 28,899
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 26,303
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get. :)
    I'll say this truthfully, I never met a bad 'un!  :smile:
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • goldrushgoldrush everybody knows this is nowherePosts: 4,376
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    You're welcome!  I think that's great.  If you don't mind saying, might I ask what is your native country?  (Not meaning to pry, so OK to pass on that.)

    Thank you, I think my theory makes sense.  It's a somewhat convoluted rephrasing of J. B. Phillips' Your God is Too Small which I like in that in the book by that title, Phillips said that once you try to define god in human terms you've made that god too small.  The only problem for me though is that his theory didn't allow enough room for the possibility that perhaps there is no god, which I think is an important factor.
    Not prying at all Brian. I'm from Wales originally, I came down here in 2006 when I was backpacking for a year trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up (I'm 41 now and I still haven't figured that out!) I loved Sydney so much that I moved here permanently in 2010. My wife is Australian, and our son was born here, so it's definitely home now.

    When I told my parents about the 2 different citizenship pledges, my mum (who is very religious) got really shitty with me for not making the "under God" pledge! It really shouldn't be a surprise to her by now, but it still felt like I was being judged. Maybe I should introduce her to 'biblical flood guy' from the party...
    “Do not postpone happiness”
    (Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)

    “Put yer good money on the sunrise”
    (Tim Rogers)
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, AustraliaPosts: 13,163
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 17,226
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    "It's so nice when toxic people stop talking to you.
    It's like the trash took itself out"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 45,960
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    brianlux said:
    goldrush said:
    A couple of things have happened recently that reminded me of this thread.

    Firstly, I became an Australian citizen last week. There were about 80 of us at the ceremony, made up of 28 different nationalities. The main part of the ceremony is the citizenship pledge, which you are required to say aloud. There are 2 different versions of the pledge, the first line of which is: "From this time forward, under God, I pledge my loyalty to Australia and its People..." The only difference between the 2 versions is the "under God" part - you either say it or you don't. Of the 80 people there, at least 75-80% said made the God pledge, which I was quite surprised at. I'm not judging here (and I didn't feel judged at all for not saying it), it's just an observation that it was such an overwhelming majority.

    The second is a conversation that took place last weekend. We were at a friend's party and someone started talking about global warming and the environment. I think we'd been talking about Xavier Rudd and John Butler (very environmentally-conscious singers) and it went off on a tangent from there. The guy was shut down, almost mocked, by someone else who genuinely believes that global warming has nothing to do with science or the environment; it's all part of God's grand plan. Basically, there's going to be another flood but this time, instead of sending a Noah figure to save the animals before the water wipes us all out, God is playing the long game. The reason melting ice caps and rising water levels are a slow process is that God is giving us a chance to redeem ourselves. An 'if we save the planet, we can save ourselves' sort of thing. The guy was deadly serious, and unshakable in this belief, there was no room for discussion.
    First off, goldrush, congratulations!  I didn't know you were not an Australian citizen.  How cool! 

    Interesting story about God's next plan for a flood!  Where people get these ideas is beyond me.  Some inborn or learned need for a myth to keep from having to deal with reality would be my guess.

    As for God, I often have a hard time knowing how best to put into words my thoughts but this evening I came up with this:

    It's not that I flat out disbelieve in the idea of "a God" so much as that I disbelieve in the idea of a definable God.  There could be (or not) some strange force that we humans cannot comprehend that we call "God", but then, I think if we go on to try to define that force then we have-- ipso facto-- negated that undefinable force (if there even is one).

    (Well, OK, that sounds a bit convoluted.  I'm still working on it, haha!)
    Thanks Brian! It feels good to finally get through all of the paperwork at last.

    I quite like your theory actually, it's just convoluted enough to make some kind of sense! :)
    i thught you were a aussie born too goldrush. welcome! we need all the aussies we can get. :)
    I'll say this truthfully, I never met a bad 'un!  :smile:
    I have. A really bad 'un. Three of them, actually.... But I'm sure most are good, lol. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 45,960
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    Theres one thing that is for sure: man created all religions.  So, that kind of answers it definitively,  doesnt it?
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,811
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    Which is, like, 90% of religious people.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rustneversleepsrustneversleeps The Motel of Lost CompanionsPosts: 1,704
    is this where i can come to tell everyone how smart i am too?  
    {1996} Columbia, MD 9/24 - NYC 9/28 {1998} Camden, NJ 8/28-8/29 {2000} Jones Beach, NY 8/25 - Camden, NJ 9/1-9/2 {2003} West Palm Beach, FL 4/11 - Phila, PA 4/28 - Buffalo, NY 5/2 - State College, PA 5/3 - Camden, NJ 7/5-7/6 - NYC 7/9 {2004} Reading, PA 10/1 {2005} George, WA 9/1 - Vancouver, BC 9/2 - Atlantic City, NJ 9/30 - Phila, PA 10/3 {2006} NYC 5/5 - Boston, MA 5/25 - Camden, NJ 5/27-5/28 - East Rutherford, NJ 6/1-6/3 - Las Vegas, NV 7/6 {2007} Chicago, IL 8/5 {2008} Manchester, TN 6/14 - Virginia Beach, VA 6/17 - Camden, NJ 6/19-6/20 - Washington, DC 6/22 {2009} Phila, PA 10/27-10/30-10/31 {2012} Phila, PA 9/2 {2013} Chicago, IL 7/19 - Brooklyn, NY 10/19 - Phila, PA 10/21-10/22 - Hartford, CT 10/25 - Baltimore, MD 10/27 - Seattle, WA 12/6 {2014} Lincoln, NE 10/9 - Austin, TX 10/12 - Detroit, MI 10/16 - Moline, IL 10/17 - Denver, CO 10/22 - Mountain View, CA 10/25 {2015} NYC 9/26 {2016} Greenville, SC 4/16 - Hampton, VA 4/18 - Phila, PA 4/28-4/29 - NYC 5/1-5/2 - Telluride, CO 7/9 - Boston, MA 8/5 - Chicago, IL 8/20-8/22 {2017} RRHOF Brooklyn, NY 4/7 {2018} Seattle, WA 8/8-8/10 - Chicago, IL 8/18-8/20

    <--EV--> {2008} NYC 8/5 {2009} Albany, NY 6/9 {2015} Rosemont, IL 5/14 {2017} Dana Point, CA 9/9 {2018} Dana Point, CA 9/29

    <--TOTD--> Phila, PA 11/4-11/5 - Seattle, WA 11/20-11/21
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 17,226
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    Theres one thing that is for sure: man created all religions.  So, that kind of answers it definitively,  doesnt it?
    I don't necessarily want to go down this hole again, but yes, of course man created religion. to me that fact is irrelevant in relation to whether god does/does not exist. 
    "It's so nice when toxic people stop talking to you.
    It's like the trash took itself out"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 17,226
    rgambs said:
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    Which is, like, 90% of religious people.
    I don't know about that. I just got back from a funeral where the priest was talking about "the mystery of faith". 

    but it's really here nor there for me. If someone believes, good for them. if they don't, good for them. if they don't know, good for them. 

    but mutherfucker I hate sitting/standing/sitting/standing/sitting/standing through catholic mass. it actually makes me angry. 
    "It's so nice when toxic people stop talking to you.
    It's like the trash took itself out"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 17,226
    PJ_Soul said:
    People are astonished I don't believe in something I have never seen and that no one has ever seen.
    Who's the more foolish?
    Neither can be called foolish, in my opinion, because no one knows for sure. the only people I consider fools, if anyone can or even should be called such, is someone who thinks they know the answer definitively. 
    I guess I'm a fool then! Oh well!
    show me your mathematical equation disproving/proving the existence of god and then I'll eat my words. 

    your opinion does not equal fact. 
    "It's so nice when toxic people stop talking to you.
    It's like the trash took itself out"
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