The Concept of God

FoxyRedLa

amethgr8 said:

FoxyRedLa said:

...

But I do wonder if I'm just believing what I want so it's easy.

I know now, maybe for the past year or so, I don't have the same "belief" in God that I had for many years.  I think being exposed to it as a child and taught as a big part of life is the main reason I believed for so long and with such conviction.  I see so many more possibilities now, I'm not sure that there is a "God" as a diety.  I believe now more of a non-specific life-force or energy and may tie into other energies to create chain reactions, etc.  I'm trying to tap into that to see where that takes me.  I am part of that force but it's hard to not have definition after having such specific definition for so long.

I hear you what you're saying.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

I disagree that belief in God harms no one though. Sure, on a personal, individual level that's how it seems, and I get that ..... But it's not that simple.

Can you expand on that a bit, maybe give example where a person's belief is absolutely harmful to another?

I'm talking about the big picture. Their belief is what feeds the religion monster at the end of the day, all around the globe. Their belief is what allows religion to play such a massive role in government control, gender inequality, bigotry, etc. Of course I don't literally blame every individual... but one cannot deny that each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.

Damn!  I just lost everything I wrote for the last 10 minute.  I guess God didn't want me to say it, haha!  Basically it was an argument that not "each and every person's belief in God is what ultimately allows people to use religion to control the masses and do harm with it.".  I know of people of faith who practice their faith in a quiet and personal way and I see these as people who do far more good than harm.

I disagree. Without the belief in God religion wouldn't exist, and if religion didn't exist it couldn't be use to control the masses and do harm with it. At the very root of the whole thing is, simply, belief in God. It's all stems from that. Whether or not specific individuals practice a religion isn't relevant to this theory. I mean, nobody would be practicing their faith in quiet if it weren't for religion, even if they're not "religious", and religion wouldn't exist without that faith. It's all connected.

You put up a good argument (as usual, damn it, haha!) but the thing is, religion, as far as we can tell anyway, has always been a part of the human condition and will likely always be around. So my feeling is, make the best of it by encouraging people to see faith as a personal and individual part of ones existence, rather than a mob thing.  Trying to eradicate religion, I would think, is rather futile.

OK, hit me with your best shot Alison!

Degeneratefk

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

lastexitlondon

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

I like this. We are all energy. And way more plausible

HughFreakingDillon

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

oftenreading

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

There is a movement for "green burial"; I have seen local advertisements. From what I understand, the body is not embalmed, and whatever the container, be it casket or shroud, is non-toxic and biodegradable. This is quite different from traditional burial. I'm thinking of looking into it. The simplicity of it appeals to me.

HesCalledDyer

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I like all of these two posts.

Degeneratefk

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

HughFreakingDillon

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

he only mentioned it being wasted in the context of it being sent to space. he wants his energy to be returned to earth in its maximum usage/consumable capacity. at least that's what I got from it. 

Degeneratefk

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

he only mentioned it being wasted in the context of it being sent to space. he wants his energy to be returned to earth in its maximum usage/consumable capacity. at least that's what I got from it. 

I understand now what he means. He just wants his energy to be with the earth. Makes sense. 

hedonist

Roll me up and smoke me when I die.

(or cremate me)

Color me agnostic too...I don't "know" shit.

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

The idea of that "soul" energy really breaks apart on the quantum level, where the rules are completely different and nothing is stable or unique. 
It's a real problem, our quantum observations don't really square with our human perception of reality, and the big question is whether our observations and conclusions are wrong, or our perceptions are just incomplete.
Either way, the idea of the soul is always at a disadvantage to the idea of an accreted consciousness in scientific thought processes.  The soul seems like the simplest, most obvious answer to who we are, but it really falls apart under scrutiny, whereas ideas of levels of accreted consciousness holds up better.

Degeneratefk

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

The idea of that "soul" energy really breaks apart on the quantum level, where the rules are completely different and nothing is stable or unique. 
It's a real problem, our quantum observations don't really square with our human perception of reality, and the big question is whether our observations and conclusions are wrong, or our perceptions are just incomplete.
Either way, the idea of the soul is always at a disadvantage to the idea of an accreted consciousness in scientific thought processes.  The soul seems like the simplest, most obvious answer to who we are, but it really falls apart under scrutiny, whereas ideas of levels of accreted consciousness holds up better.

I don't believe in souls. That's why is said but not a soul. I believe your energy is your energy though. 

rgambs

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

rgambs said:

Degeneratefk said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

Neil degrasse Tyson spoke about this recently. It actually, I believe, is fact that we are made up of energy and energy cannot be created nor destroyed, so in that way, we do always live on. People have asked him if he wants to be shot in a rocket to space when he dies to live among the stars, and he said no, because he doesn't want to "waste" the energy within him. 

“I would request that my body in death be buried not cremated, so that the energy content contained within it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it, just as I have dined upon flora and fauna during my lifetime”

I'm certainly not as smart as Tyson l, but I would argue that your energy isnt in your physical body. There would be energy given off as your body decomposes. But I dont think that's the energy that moves on and transforms. I believe you have a living energy all around you. That energy immediatly transforms or just goes up into space when you die. 

As far as being cremated, you are releasing energy as your body burns. The energy of the body just transforms into heat energy. So it's not being wasted. Unless you just want your body to be one with the earth. 

If there is such an energy (we haven't found it yet) it doesn't seem likely that it would be unique to each person.  It would be shared.

I suppose I look at it like a soul, but not a soul. I think it is your energy that you take with you no matter where you go or transform into. 

But thats not to say you couldnt combine with another energy form to create one larger "mass" of energy. So yea, it can be shared.

The idea of that "soul" energy really breaks apart on the quantum level, where the rules are completely different and nothing is stable or unique. 
It's a real problem, our quantum observations don't really square with our human perception of reality, and the big question is whether our observations and conclusions are wrong, or our perceptions are just incomplete.
Either way, the idea of the soul is always at a disadvantage to the idea of an accreted consciousness in scientific thought processes.  The soul seems like the simplest, most obvious answer to who we are, but it really falls apart under scrutiny, whereas ideas of levels of accreted consciousness holds up better.

I don't believe in souls. That's why is said but not a soul. I believe your energy is your energy though. 

I know you didn't mean soul in the literal, established way, but the idea of a discrete, essential energy which is unique to each individual is almost the same as the popular concept of a soul in the context of looking for analogs and explanations from known and assumed scientific principles.

rgambs

A fun and interesting thing that I noticed a while back is that there is a strong suggestion of God in one of the dominant quantum theories, but you won't find any religious people jumping to talk about observation and wave function collapse lol

brianlux

lastexitlondon said:

Degeneratefk said:

The title of this thread "the concept of god," is completely man made. That alone should be a clue that the religious God people pray to and seek salvation from doesn't exist. 

Now something I could get behind if I researched and studied it more is the idea that God is in all of us. The idea that we are nothing but energy and energy never dies. It simply transforms. Not that we have a soul, but the physical energy that we all are just transforms when we die and we just be something else. A rock, stardust, trees, lightning, another person? I don't know. It's more plausible to me than heaven and hell.

I like this. We are all energy. And way more plausible

I like this as well. 

One of my favorite books is Alan Weisman's The World Without Us.  Toward the end of the book he says, "...radio waves don't die- like light, they travel on.  The human brain also emanates electric impulses at very low frequencies: similar to, but far weaker than, the radio waves used to communicate with submarines. ... The emanations from our brains, like radio waves, must also keep going- where? Space is now described as an expanding bubble, but that architecture is still theory. Along its great mysterious interstellar curvature, perhaps it's not unreasonable to think that our thought waves might eventually find their way back here."

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

A fun and interesting thing that I noticed a while back is that there is a strong suggestion of God in one of the dominant quantum theories, but you won't find any religious people jumping to talk about observation and wave function collapse lol

English please. 

rgambs

Or perhaps they resonate throughout a multiverse occupying the same space and time influencing each other in subtle and imperceptible ways.

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

A fun and interesting thing that I noticed a while back is that there is a strong suggestion of God in one of the dominant quantum theories, but you won't find any religious people jumping to talk about observation and wave function collapse lol

English please. 

I can explain more but I can't do so in English lol

rgambs

At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

Cool stuff.

brianlux

rgambs said:

Or perhaps they resonate throughout a multiverse occupying the same space and time influencing each other in subtle and imperceptible ways.

Whatever they do or wherever they go, it's the closest thing I can imagine as living forever. 

As for our souls, I sense that we have souls the way I sense there really is a muse that drives our creativity.  What the hell they are, whether or not they really do exist, how they can be explained, how they work- that's beyond me.  And I don't care to quantify or prove or explain them. They are parts of that aspect of life that is mystery, something that I'm quite fond of. I have no need to understand those kinds of things scientifically, and certainly not metaphysically.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

Cool stuff.

why would we need an observer to keep our existence un-chaotic?

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

At the center of quantum theory several complicated concepts.  One is that matter is based on point particles, but the particles, due to the uncertainty principle, cannot have their location and position known accurately.  They can't be predicted to exist at all, in any position or trajectory and this complicated concept introduces probability into the system.
The probability of finding them (of us existing, for instance) is expressed as an equation known as a wave function.  The craziness isn't over, because a measurement (observation) is necessary to collapse the wave and determine the final state of an object.
Taking that down the line, it ends up meaning one of several really odd ideas, the multiverse being one, and a possible God like entity which acts as a universal observer so that our universe isn't a chaos of simultaneous existence and non-existence.

Cool stuff.

why would we need an observer to keep our existence un-chaotic?

Because the particles which make us up don't exist in a single time or space unless they are looked at!  Absolutely bonkers, eh?

rgambs

Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.

rgambs

Arthur C Clarke:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

Don't agree, but seems appropriate here.  The concepts of quantum mechanics are dizzying and wild, it's certainly every bit as fantastic as the magical stories religion offers.

HughFreakingDillon

rgambs said:

Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.

but how can it be a certainty if the observer isn't observed? how can a probability lend credence to another probabilty making it a certainty if it isn't a certainty itself?

rgambs

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

Unless observed, any given bit of matter is only a probability.

but how can it be a certainty if the observer isn't observed? how can a probability lend credence to another probabilty making it a certainty if it isn't a certainty itself?

Hence the universal observer, AKA God!  A separate whatever that plays observer to everything in the universe, but is (probably) necessarily distinct from it.

rgambs

You think fast Hugh, I'm impressed!