The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

pjsoul said:

No, what I'm describing cannot be called being a god. At all. Because a god, in any manifestation, cannot be a completely unconscious force without any purpose or reason. Those are necessary descriptors for the idea. Anyone trying to say otherwise is just an Atheist who doesn't understand semantics. God is not another word for scientific/natural processes. God is also not just another way to say that you don't know something. The idea of god or a higher power of any kind MUST be something other than that. Without applying the idea of some sort of conscious force or some kind of organized purpose in some form, "god" is just a word without any meaning at all.

BTW, there is no god in Buddhism. I don't even consider Buddhism a religion because of this. It is a philosophy.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

I disagree. I've read alot about different belief systems. one person cannot corner the market on what constitutes the concept of god. if that's your definition, fine, but that's not THE definition.

there are many gods in buddhism, just none that are considered the creator of all things. but I know you what were meaning.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

pjsoul said:

This isn't about one person cornering the market on what constitutes the concept of god. But what you are basically saying is that literally ANYTHING can be called god. Well, that necessarily makes the word or concept of god completely meaningless. The concept of god DOES have to be based on something. The origins and history of the concept do indeed lend themselves to some definition, however loose. I must say, it frustrates me a bit that some people try to literally remove all meaning from the word/concept. That is the same as just taking any word and telling someone that it can mean whatever the hell you want it to mean. Sorry, no. That is not how language or concepts work.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

I'm not saying strip all meaning from it, nor did I say anything could be called god. it can mean higher power, or some type of energy, or the universe itself. whatever. I'm not saying you can call a spoon a god.

but a philosophical concept is fluid. a spoon is a spoon. a fork is a fork. those aren't concepts, those are facts. but a god can mean MANY things to many different people. many gods are passive, some are active. there has to be purpose or meaning? who says? I have never seen "god" as defined by those rules. it all seems a bit rigid to me.

PJ_Soul · May 2017

Good job HFD.

Attaway77 · May 2017

I believe in God, I say my prayers everyday saying thank you while asking for forgiveness for my sins when I do (which are many cause we're all guilty). That's my concept.

OnWis97 · May 2017

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

PJ_Soul · May 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm not saying strip all meaning from it, nor did I say anything could be called god. it can mean higher power, or some type of energy, or the universe itself. whatever. I'm not saying you can call a spoon a god.

but a philosophical concept is fluid. a spoon is a spoon. a fork is a fork. those aren't concepts, those are facts. but a god can mean MANY things to many different people. many gods are passive, some are active. there has to be purpose or meaning? who says? I have never seen "god" as defined by those rules. it all seems a bit rigid to me.

God as a philosophical concept? Is that what god is? I figure god either exists or doesn't exist (he doesn't

). If it's just a philosophical concept, then god really couldn't exist, right? He'd then just be an idea, not an actual thing that has some kind of impact on the universe outside of how the idea affects human actions. Yes, people can have all kinds of crazy ideas about what god might be or could be or should be ... but if he (I keep calling god he FFS... it seems so ludicrous, lol. But i guess it's just become common sexist vernacular)... so sorry, if it existed, it wouldn't exist in the form that whatever random person imagined it to exist. If god existed, there would be one truth for what god is and isn't. It's very nice for everyone to think of god as a completely fluid concept, but isn't that the same as admitting that god doesn't exist at all? Or is it more reasonable to people that god exists in every random form someone can imagine than it is for god not to exist?? If so, doesn't that seem rather delusional? Or, at best, simply an admission that god only lives in the imagination?

PJfanwillneverleave1 · May 2017

I always forget, do religious people believe everyone is born in sin or just them?

rgambs · May 2017

OnWis97 said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

Agreed, and don't ever plant it in your garden, it bolts in a week and stinks to high heavens, 3 years later I still have cilantro coming up in my yard in early summer.

PJ_Soul · May 2017

rgambs said:

OnWis97 said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

Agreed, and don't ever plant it in your garden, it bolts in a week and stinks to high heavens, 3 years later I still have cilantro coming up in my yard in early summer.

I like cilantro.

Image: https://ubnt.i.lithium.com/html/images/emoticons/leaving.gif

rgambs · May 2017

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

OnWis97 said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

Agreed, and don't ever plant it in your garden, it bolts in a week and stinks to high heavens, 3 years later I still have cilantro coming up in my yard in early summer.

I like cilantro.

You probably wouldn't after it bolts, the flavour essence is intensified and it gets ridiculously overpowering. I could smell it from almost an acre away!

I don't hate it, but it's an herb and needs to be used in moderation, some treat it like a staple and it drowns everything out.

OnWis97 · May 2017

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

OnWis97 said:

rgambs said:

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

Agreed, and don't ever plant it in your garden, it bolts in a week and stinks to high heavens, 3 years later I still have cilantro coming up in my yard in early summer.

I like cilantro.

Heretic!

oftenreading · May 2017

PJ_Soul said:

rgambs said:

OnWis97 said:

rgambs said:

PJ_Soul said:

I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.

Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.

Sorry, there is no cilantro debate. It's terrible. If there ever was a book that was the true word of God, "Cilantro sucks" would be chapter 1.

Agreed, and don't ever plant it in your garden, it bolts in a week and stinks to high heavens, 3 years later I still have cilantro coming up in my yard in early summer.

I like cilantro.

I do, too, but I'm more interested in the little bouncing away guy.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

pjsoul said:

Perhaps you are misunderstanding what I mean? I agree that god can mean MANY things... but it can't mean that it has no meaning, or no speck of some brand of intelligent design, or no hint of consciousness, or no spirit at all, or however you want to put it. And yes, it is defined by those rules. So I think that saying some people call scientific processes in of themselves "god" simply strips all meaning from the word god. "God", in whatever concept someone can come up with, has to have that quality of being some separate force outside of scientific processes, one way or another, however one's imagination can build it. Otherwise, you're simply not talking about god anymore. Erm, I would also say yeah, "god" has to at least have some kind of meaning. Without that there is just nothing. It would be a non-concept. I don't think me saying this is even close to rigid. It actually allows god to be basically anything other than nothing or something else altogether that already has a concrete explanation, lol. That seems to leave a LOT of room for what god could be. However, some people consider just about anything that hasn't yet been explained as possible evidence of God, which I also think is nuts.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

I guess I just don't think it's reasonable for humans to believe they are able to put paramaters on something we have zero idea about. I'm guessing if there is anything like that in existence, it is wildly different from what we think it is. there's no way, in my opinion, that anything with that kind of power/ability is anything that humans would be able to conceptualize.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

rgambs said:

I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here.
God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.

If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

i'm not afraid to call myself an atheist. i always called myself that until i found out what agnostic was. while i don't believe in god, i'm open to the idea of it. that's all.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'm not saying strip all meaning from it, nor did I say anything could be called god. it can mean higher power, or some type of energy, or the universe itself. whatever. I'm not saying you can call a spoon a god.

but a philosophical concept is fluid. a spoon is a spoon. a fork is a fork. those aren't concepts, those are facts. but a god can mean MANY things to many different people. many gods are passive, some are active. there has to be purpose or meaning? who says? I have never seen "god" as defined by those rules. it all seems a bit rigid to me.

God as a philosophical concept? Is that what god is? I figure god either exists or doesn't exist (he doesn't ). If it's just a philosophical concept, then god really couldn't exist, right? He'd then just be an idea, not an actual thing that has some kind of impact on the universe outside of how the idea affects human actions. Yes, people can have all kinds of crazy ideas about what god might be or could be or should be ... but if he (I keep calling god he FFS... it seems so ludicrous, lol. But i guess it's just become common sexist vernacular)... so sorry, if it existed, it wouldn't exist in the form that whatever random person imagined it to exist. If god existed, there would be one truth for what god is and isn't. It's very nice for everyone to think of god as a completely fluid concept, but isn't that the same as admitting that god doesn't exist at all? Or is it more reasonable to people that god exists in every random form someone can imagine than it is for god not to exist?? If so, doesn't that seem rather delusional? Or, at best, simply an admission that god only lives in the imagination?

Philosophy (from Greek φιλοσοφία, philosophia, literally "love of wisdom") is the study of general and fundamental problems concerning matters such as existence, knowledge, values, reason, mind, and language.

so yes, i'd call god a philosophical concept.

the concept of god being fluid is not the same at all as admitting it doesn't exist. it is admitting that no one knows the true meaning of whatever god is, or isn't. that's the fluidity. i would imagine most christians or jews or hindus would say it's not a fluid concept, because they learn one general concept of what god is. but to me, they don't 'know' what god is.

just don't tell them that. i have. it ain't pretty.

i don't think anything is delusional when it comes to existential or theological thought processes.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2017

HughFreakingDillon said:

rgambs said:

I've enjoyed your discussion hugh? and allison, and I'm going to have to take the lady's side here.
God is a fairly well defined concept that can't just be ascribed to anything.

If you think that God is the universe or nature or love, or that God is the fact that there is a vague "higher power", you are just an atheist who is afraid to admit what you are lol

can someone point me in the direction of something that says god has to be this specific set of details that the two of you have mapped out?

The Concept of God

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