The Concept of God

HughFreakingDillon
HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
in A Moving Train
a discussion evolved out of the Manchester bombing thread. Figured we should start one on its own, and hopefully it doesn't suffer the same fate as previous discussions on this topic. 
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Comments

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    edited May 2017
    so basically the point of this thread is not to argue about faith, or try to convince someone else that you are right or they are wrong. just, what do you think god is, if you believe a god exists?

    Post edited by HughFreakingDillon on
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,610
    edited May 2017
    I did not see that thread, so I apologize if I am off course.

    Me: Agnostic, officially, in that I don't know nuthin.'  My gut may be closer to atheist than some agnostics.
    My faith: Because I am agnostic, people may tell me I have no faith. But I do...one lone piece of faith.  I have faith that "being wrong" does not send one to an eternal fiery pit.

    The concept of god and religion makes tons of sense to me.  It's natural for people to ask "why are we here" and "what happens when we die."  I understand that it's unsettling to think that once you die, you just cease to be...though that's my best guess.

    And a lot of comfort and good can come from it.  Unfortunately, it's evolved in a way that has opened doors to exploitation of the followers, be it by taking their money or exploiting their faith to get them to do things in the name of god/religion.  And from where I sit, as someone that does not believe in so much of what organized religion teaches, it sets a lot of rules that help create a culture of control.  

    And some of those rules have prevented us from simply being able to live and let live regarding different beliefs on life and the afterlife.  Or we've allowed it to happen. Or the exploiters make it happen. Or all three.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    God, by definition, is a deity.  A being. 
    How much power is attributed to the deity varies, but the fact that it is a sovereign being is necessary to the definition of the concept.
    I strongly consider myself an atheist because I do not believe in an invisible deity that has power over the universe and my life.  I think most people are hesitant to call themselves atheists, or accept that their views are atheistic.  
    Saying "I believe there may be some kind of higher purpose, plan, or power" doesn't make you an agnostic.  To be agnostic you would need to accept the possibility of a deity, and many of the people who use those vague pantheistic descriptions do not accept the idea of the old man in the sky wagging his finger.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,491
    I love that you started this thread at 4:20!  (Although, I guess it's only 3:20 for you.)
    Star Lake 00 / Pittsburgh 03 / State College 03 / Bristow 03 / Cleveland 06 / Camden II 06 / DC 08 / Pittsburgh 13 / Baltimore 13 / Charlottesville 13 / Cincinnati 14 / St. Paul 14 / Hampton 16 / Wrigley I 16 / Wrigley II 16 / Baltimore 20 / Camden 22 / Baltimore 24 / Raleigh I 25 / Raleigh II 25 / Pittsburgh I 25
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    Shit yeah Rick and Morty! 
    Instant classic show
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    edited May 2017
    I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

    However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.
    Yeah, it's been pretty common for me to hear that people don't believe in God in the traditional Judeo-Christian sense, but "..."

    There's that saying about everything after the but...
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambs
    rgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

    However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.
    Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
    Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    rgambs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

    However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.
    Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
    Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.
    Religion is quite obviously Miracle Whip, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HesCalledDyer
    HesCalledDyer Maryland Posts: 16,491
    PJ_Soul said:
    rgambs said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I agree that the concept of God stems from people not having answers to those two questions that you cite. 100%. Fear of the unknown is absolutely the source of the belief in god. Intellectually, I get that, even though I don't have that fear. And I might even get that emotionally, if it weren't for what the concept of God became: Religion. If it weren't for religion, I would probably be a lot more easy going when it comes to people's thoughts on the concept of god. But because of religion, even the arguments for the existence of god (or the possible existence of god) by the non-religious ultimately feed religion, whether they want it to or not (yes, OnWis97, the distinction between the exploiters, exploitees, and neither is an important one). That is why I'll always stand up strongly against the concept as well as the organization and manipulation of that concept.

    However opposed I am to the concept and its manifestations, though, it certainly is the most fascinating topic of discussion in the history of the world.
    Actually that would have to go to the cilantro debate.
    Or maybe Hellman's vs Miracle Whip.
    Religion is quite obviously Miracle Whip, lol.
    Indeed.  Get this off my plate!
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    I love Miracle Whip. 

    Now I'm confused. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    I love Miracle Whip. 

    Now I'm confused. 
    I'm pretty sure that makes you a Bible thumper, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    riley540 said:
    It's impossible to prove, ot disprove god. 
    rgambs said:

    It shouldn't be necessary.  At all.
    Any God worth his salt would say, "Dudes, what the fuck is up with the war and the rape and the murder, the starving children, the terrorism, and the poverty?? Get your shit together!"

    The fact that God hasn't done so is proof.  Proof that God doesn't exist, or proof that if God exists, God is shitty.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    tbergs said:

    There's more options than that. Free will; the best and worst gift humans were given. If we wish to destroy ourselves, so be it. That's not proof or disproof of god.
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    rgambs said:

    Sounds like a weak attempt to sidestep God's responsibility. 
    "It's all part of my infinite plan.
    Except if it sucks, then it's human free will.
    Oh yeah, concerning that, I'm giving you free will as an option to torture each other in every conceivable way, and I know you will use it to do just that.  Not my fault, your the one with the free will."
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    tbergs said:
    Why should it be god's or any other higher beings responsibility to play puppet master? I think it's ridiculous for human beings to look at the atrocities that occur in our world and then use that as a reason to proclaim there is no god. That's sidestepping responsibility on our part. I don't see a god so it doesn't exist. Well, anyone here see an atom around them? 

    Think of it this way, you raise your children to be good responsible and kind individuals, but they still won't always make the right choice or do the right thing, even if you helicopter parent and then even less so. Is that god's fault because they are allowed free thought?

    Imagine a god that didn't allow free will, everything you did or said was controlled and measured to an extent to achieve a certain result. Sounds a lot like a dictator, which no one here likes. I guess if we were mindless zombies then there would never be any issues, but you wouldn't know the difference because you wouldn't be allowed to think. Happiness would ensue worldwide.

    Didn't mean to take this to a god conversation, but I think it's important to recognize that without happy we wouldn't know sad. Atrocity is a necessary evil that I wish upon no one, but it serves a purpose. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    pjsoul said:
    I think all the other terrible things that happen to people and animals is part of an argument against God. The things that aren't atrocities determined by free will. Drought, famine, horrible disease, devastating natural disasters, human nature ... Seriously, I don't understand how anyone who actually believes in God doesn't hate his guts. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,521
    rgambs said:
    Don't claim omnipotence if you can't back it up!
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




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