And the law that our resident professor cited was introduced by a republican congressman and passed by a republican house and senate as part of a trillion dollar tax and spending package.
I would hardly characterize this as "Obama's law." And once passed, did Obama's DHS immediately enforce it, leading to similar chaos that Trump's actions caused? False equivalency. The least you can do is own Trump's actions. You own it. And about those numbers, JC? Obama raised the number of immigrants allowed in in his final year of office from 70,000 to 110,000 probably because he saw the writing on the wall. This is just the beginning. You trump supporters own it.
Let's back up because I know not everyone has a stellar memory. Yesterday, H2m asked for the visa ban law that Obama signed, as if one didn't exist or as if he is ignorant to the fact that one existed. I kindly provide the law directly from .gov. Today H2M wakes up after late night peek-a-boo, makes his lemon water and Manuka honey drink, sits at his computer, checks the Trump thread, reads benjs posts, thinks it's a good idea, takes it to heart, then proceeds attempt to implement said benjs strategy. H2M then proceeds for the next 3 hours to study the law I posted composes his retort and comes up with this:
It's not "Obamas law" even thou nobody referred to it as "Obamas law" ignoring that the president has to sign bills in order for it to become law. Obama signed it, no veto, sign and drive. Then he further tries to dissociate Obama from his signature on the visa ban law by claiming, it was 1. part of a larger more important bill package that needed to be passed 2. originated in the house / senate, furthermore noting that the house and Senate were opposition party republicans.
My question, if this was so un American to Obama, couldn't he issue an executive order doing away with the visa ban instead of having his DHS enforce it?
H2M failed to mention the 4 month Iraqi ban Obama also implemented in 2011.
Cheers...TAILTUCK
Do you support the current Muslim/refugee/immigration ban?
Do you support the propsed wall & deportations?
One word yes or no answers, please
I wouldn't call it a Muslim ban..see previous post a few pages back. I have no problem with a temporary ban issued by a new administration, in order for it them to work thru a more permanent solution whatever it may be, extreme vetting etc. I do have a problem with trumps implemention and preparedness dealing with those en route or within 72 hours of travel. I'm am totally against ILLEGAL immigration. I have no problem with a proposed wall, it worked for Israel and we paid for that one so why not. Without knowing the details I can only say I'm not against a wall. I'll reserve judgement on the wall until I know the particulars. I'm all for the continuance of Obamas record breaking deportations of ILLEGAL immigrants. Trust the process.
So that is a yes, yes, and yes. I appreciate you taking a clear cut position.
But, you clearly told me in the Podesta emails thread that you were voting for Jill Stein??? I'm having a really hard time believing a Jill Stein voter would support those positions???
So which time you were lying, then or now?
Whatever you say You missed my post where I vote pact'd, I'll be glad to find it for you. Keep trying.... The cheerleaders in here are taking on the role of the media with their failed gotcha attempts.
You're the one that said you were voting for Jill Stein my friend.
But you support the ban, wall, and deportation EO's? A Jill Stein voter? lol
What is "vote pact'd"? I honestly don't know
Do you believe in climate change? And if so, is it being caused by human activity?
You never heard of vote pact...how about Google? Ever hear of them? I've already explained my climate change position. I have enough stalkers on here, if you want to join the club, please direct your membership questions to club president H2M. Memberships are limited, prices and participation varies. If you are denied membership pm me I'll send you my snapchat. We'll revisit Tuesday...GMOs are a callin!
You butthurt because I caught you in a lie?
I don't stalk you so I don't know your thoughts on climate change. Do you believe it is happening? Do you think it is caused by human activity? Simple questions bro
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
WOW, everyone with any concerns about President Trump SHOULD READ THAT ARTICLE.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
And what purpose does pointing that out serve? It's in the past, we can't go back. We're starting now.
This shit hit me so hard today. Who the fuck are we? How is this okay?
Reading through refugee stories and now stories of people being sent back home after arriving at my airport today. Truly fucking heartbreaking. These are fucking people. Not pawns
unfortunately as is the case everywhere good people pay the price for bad people, take a look at Germany and other parts of the U.K and their struggle with muslim immigrants is it any wonder other countries don't want them ?
I don't know why I bother replying to you but we are not Germany. We have very different borders which unfortunately causes them significantly more immigration problems than us.
Isn't getting a new screen name after getting banned also not allowed?
he was "deported" and then snuck back through as an "illegal immigrant". oh, the irony.
"every society honours its live conformists and its dead troublemakers"
This shit hit me so hard today. Who the fuck are we? How is this okay?
Reading through refugee stories and now stories of people being sent back home after arriving at my airport today. Truly fucking heartbreaking. These are fucking people. Not pawns
unfortunately as is the case everywhere good people pay the price for bad people, take a look at Germany and other parts of the U.K and their struggle with muslim immigrants is it any wonder other countries don't want them ?
I don't know why I bother replying to you but we are not Germany. We have very different borders which unfortunately causes them significantly more immigration problems than us.
Isn't getting a new screen name after getting banned also not allowed?
he was "deported" and then snuck back through as an "illegal immigrant". oh, the irony.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
And what purpose does pointing that out serve? It's in the past, we can't go back. We're starting now.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but that is not this forum's norm from either side of the equation. That, and there is plenty of "current" hypocrisy being exercised that can only be pointed out by exemplifying past events...
This shit hit me so hard today. Who the fuck are we? How is this okay?
Reading through refugee stories and now stories of people being sent back home after arriving at my airport today. Truly fucking heartbreaking. These are fucking people. Not pawns
unfortunately as is the case everywhere good people pay the price for bad people, take a look at Germany and other parts of the U.K and their struggle with muslim immigrants is it any wonder other countries don't want them ?
I don't know why I bother replying to you but we are not Germany. We have very different borders which unfortunately causes them significantly more immigration problems than us.
Isn't getting a new screen name after getting banned also not allowed?
he was "deported" and then snuck back through as an "illegal immigrant". oh, the irony.
HA!
I guess we do need a wall, a Godfather proof firewall.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
And what purpose does pointing that out serve? It's in the past, we can't go back. We're starting now.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but that is not this forum's norm from either side of the equation. That, and there is plenty of "current" hypocrisy being exercised that can only be pointed out by exemplifying past events...
PJP...
Are you defending Trump... or are you defending yourself right now?
This shit hit me so hard today. Who the fuck are we? How is this okay?
Reading through refugee stories and now stories of people being sent back home after arriving at my airport today. Truly fucking heartbreaking. These are fucking people. Not pawns
unfortunately as is the case everywhere good people pay the price for bad people, take a look at Germany and other parts of the U.K and their struggle with muslim immigrants is it any wonder other countries don't want them ?
I don't know why I bother replying to you but we are not Germany. We have very different borders which unfortunately causes them significantly more immigration problems than us.
Isn't getting a new screen name after getting banned also not allowed?
he was "deported" and then snuck back through as an "illegal immigrant". oh, the irony.
HA!
I guess we do need a wall, a Godfather proof firewall.
Any password requiring proper spelling would likely keep him from entering (not that I care either way).
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
And what purpose does pointing that out serve? It's in the past, we can't go back. We're starting now.
It is not hypocrisy. It is.....wait for it....politics. That's all.
Koch brothers: for every dollar the aclu raises against Trump we pledge 400 to Trump!
Lies! Lies! Lies!
Billionaire Republican donor Charles Koch likens Donald Trump's Muslim ban to Adolf Hitler's policies in Nazi Germany Influential industrialist says travel restrictions 'wrong approach' for 'free and open societies'
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Woa! Woa! Woa! Because that's what I do. I print my name, I sign my name. And then when, I sing the pledge of allegiance. Because going to a wedding and entering a country are the same. Are you usually this misinformed? Or just hateful? Be honest.
Halifax, I mean this honestly: treating people who feel differently than you this poorly is not productive to showing them why they shouldn't. This goes for the Trump debates, but also any other topic in life, and there are a few prerequisites which without them, you're going to have a hard time changing minds
1. Don't attack character. If someone calls me a Nazi sympathizer and I'm not, that person's credibility is lost in my eyes, because I feel they fallaciously make conclusions. 2. Don't make a battle out of a debate. If both of your objectives are truth and not war, then exposed knowledge which adds to a pile of data on which to pass judgment can only be a positive. Don't let winning be the objective, it must be discovery of the truth. 3. Recognize the bias you have inherited, and that there is no shame in needing to consciously strip your opinions of the biases within you in order to reassess the truth of your opinions. It is not an attack to be reminded of bias. 4. Just be respectful. We're living things here.
I'm sorry if you find this preachy, but I've found these to be things absent by and large in this community. I've probably forgotten them from time to time too but am trying to be more cognizant of them.
I realize you are trying to help, and that's good but I don't think you have been paying attention. You are missing more than half of the equation.
I personally appreciate Halifax for calling out the bullshit when he sees it. I have learned a lot.
I'm all for calling out bullshit, but first you have to qualify whether the person you're talking to has malicious intent and is trying to dispel bullshit, or whether they believe what they are saying. If they believe it, they are simply stating their case the way you or I do. If this is the case, equating them to people of questionable character or intellect is just not called for. If they don't believe it, why not just present the ill logic their statements are predicated upon?
In either case, as soon as emotions come into play, you've given a valid opportunity to the person you're debating with to just deflect by accurately pointing out that you are resorting to fallacious attacks. In no way, shape or form have I proposed not calling out bullshit. I've simply said that there's a right way and a wrong way to do so.
I put in bold this part of your response because it gets to the heart of the matter.
The poster who Halifax was responding to clearly is trying to spread misinformation and just plain bullshit. Many on this forum have pointed it out. When called out said poster moves on to more bullshit. Always a moving target and always trying to confuse and muddy the waters. A tactic learned, I can only assume, from Trump himself.
I agree it would be best if we could leave most emotion out of it for a more clear picture and better debate, but then this place would be boring if it was all gone. It's the passion I see here, and the new information I learn, that keeps me coming back. Emotion and passion can lead to an invigorating debate.
I really don't agree. I'm confident that BS believes what he writes here, and I say that as someone who disagrees with much of what he posts.
Whoosh. Not talking about BS. Thought that was clear.
Dignin, I apologize as this wasn't clear to me, I made a mistake clearly. Thought I was being attentive to the micro-thread but I'll try to do better next time
No need to apologize Benjs, we had a malfunction at the junction.
PJPower, quit misleading everyone with partial truths. How about you reference the real story that relates to this inaccurate picture and let people decide for themselves if it's the same or related to Trump's order.
I'm getting real fucking tired of this "why weren't you protesting when..." rhetoric. Be glad people are exercising their constitutional rights NOW. You have to start somewhere. If all we did was sit back and say "why weren't you doing it when x,y,z," we could just keep pointing backwards to the evolution of man. It's a ridiculous argument and holds zero ground.
Just pointing out a bit of hypocrisy...I'm tired of the hypocrisy and am using my constitutional rights to point it out.
And what purpose does pointing that out serve? It's in the past, we can't go back. We're starting now.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but that is not this forum's norm from either side of the equation. That, and there is plenty of "current" hypocrisy being exercised that can only be pointed out by exemplifying past events...
Right, I get that. I'm just not sure what the purpose of it is. Are Trump supporters expecting to hear a "yeah, you're right, maybe we should've acted sooner" from those protesting his ideologies? If that's the goal in pointing out "where were you when..." then fine, I'll say that on everyone's behalf. Perhaps we should've acted sooner. Hindsight, as they say, is always 20/20. We are acting now, though, whereas we could continue standing idly by.
Comments
I don't stalk you so I don't know your thoughts on climate change. Do you believe it is happening? Do you think it is caused by human activity? Simple questions bro
So you voted for Jill Stein?
https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.xqait3sq7
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/01/29/trumps-facile-claim-that-his-refugee-policy-is-similar-to-obama-in-2011/
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Are you defending Trump... or are you defending yourself right now?
The deflection tactic begs the question from me.
Lies! Lies! Lies!
Billionaire Republican donor Charles Koch likens Donald Trump's Muslim ban to Adolf Hitler's policies in Nazi Germany
Influential industrialist says travel restrictions 'wrong approach' for 'free and open societies'
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-billionaire-republican-donor-charles-koch-likens-policy-to-adolf-a7552531.html
https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/what-things-going-wrong-can-look-like-400f84a0cc3a#.y7s2d2rmc
http://usuncut.news/2017/01/30/sean-spicer-retweeted-the-onion-and-the-internet-will-never-let-him-live-it-down-screenshots/