I think it's poor taste for Dave A. to make a comment the day of the list of POSSIBLE inductees, like he wants his due NOW! Let the chips fall dude. See what happens. Great drummer, but in the history of this band, he was a splash in the pan. My three cents. They need to Hit Em' With The Hein.
I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.
Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue galready this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.
Josh had been in RHCP for a long time, just not always a guitarist.
They should all be in. Just cos they aren't in Pearl Jam anymore doesn't mean they aren't Pearl Jam. They always will be and that should be recognised here.
I can't believe people even care about Dave A getting in. He's nothing. Not a good song writer and an average drummer at best. He could NEVER play the shows we've come to expect from PJ now. NEVER.
Couldnt disagree more. For me, Dave and Jack's looser drum style suits the band far better than Matt Cameron. I love Matt and what he's done for the band, hes a great musician, but he does not play the old stuff well at all IMO. Dave A is a great drummer and contributed a huge amount to that raw sound of Vs - not to mention writing Go and Last Exit. He should be inducted - I've no idea why Dave Krusen is getting in ahead of him.
"...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
I agree. Dave A is a pretty simplistic drummer and never really contributed much in the studio. I also remember hearing he struggled with songs in studio recording Vs
In what way is he simplistic?
Dave Grohl struggled at the Nevermind recordings.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
I agree. Dave A is a pretty simplistic drummer and never really contributed much in the studio. I also remember hearing he struggled with songs in studio recording Vs
In what way is he simplistic?
Dave Grohl struggled at the Nevermind recordings.
Now we're comparing Dave A to Dave Grohl? Lol. Who cares anymore.
If Dave Krusen gets in then Dave A. absolutely should get in too. Dave A. contributed way more to Pearl Jam than Dave Krusen. The only thing Krusen can hang his hat on is that he played on the debut album. Otherwise, Dave A. has more overall recordings with the band and is light years ahead in terms of live shows.
I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.
I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them.
I was waiting for this. LOL. when Ed inducted the Ramones, Joey fucking said "god bless george bush" with Ed standing right beside him. you don't get much more conservative than that.
Big difference, Joey was an idol/icon to him. Dave was some guy who started off as a fill in for drummer and ended up staying for 2 more albums.
and I quote:
"..but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them".
Yes, doesn't 'care MUCH'. If you want to say a statement is a blanket statement and covers all instances, then we aren't going to agree on anything.
Ok, you have Joey Ramone to throw out there. Everyone is aware of that. What else can you come up with?
nothing. I don't know any of their friends. My point is I think it would be weird for anyone, musician or not, to surround themselves with only others who share the same particular political leanings.
I agree 100% with you on that one. I just know he rubbed them the wrong way, partly because of his views and that's well documented. I myself am Liberal and surround myself with all different view points.
I have never had the impression that the band had issues with Dave simply because of his politics. Seems to me they had problems with his personality more than anything else. When you like someone, their politics don't matter much. But when you don't like someone and can't get along with them, their politics that you don't like are just another nail in the coffin.
You obviously have no idea what Glorified G was written about.
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it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.
My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.
I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.
I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.
well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.
I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.
I also quoted Brendan O'Brien as saying the band was barely communicating at the time, but seemed to act professional around JI - I don't think that quote should be overlooked or dismissed.
IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)
As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.
Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.
Peace.
I don't disagree with Jack's influence on the band's communication skills. All I'm saying is that I don't think that should factor in to who gets into the hall, that's all.
I think Matt should be the only drummer inducted. He helped them out before any other drummer, and he's been with them the longest. But if you induct Dave K, you open a can of worms for the others.
This is a great point. Inducting Dave K. does open a can of worms. I never thought of it like that.
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I don't think it's any surprise to anyone who actually knows the history of the band somewhat, that they don't like Dave based on the type of person he is and the way he acted towards the members of the band.
I don't want to get all political here or crush the dreams of any conservatives out there, but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them.
I was waiting for this. LOL. when Ed inducted the Ramones, Joey fucking said "god bless george bush" with Ed standing right beside him. you don't get much more conservative than that.
Big difference, Joey was an idol/icon to him. Dave was some guy who started off as a fill in for drummer and ended up staying for 2 more albums.
and I quote:
"..but the band as a whole doesn't care much for conservatives, let alone get along with them".
Yes, doesn't 'care MUCH'. If you want to say a statement is a blanket statement and covers all instances, then we aren't going to agree on anything.
Ok, you have Joey Ramone to throw out there. Everyone is aware of that. What else can you come up with?
nothing. I don't know any of their friends. My point is I think it would be weird for anyone, musician or not, to surround themselves with only others who share the same particular political leanings.
I agree 100% with you on that one. I just know he rubbed them the wrong way, partly because of his views and that's well documented. I myself am Liberal and surround myself with all different view points.
I have never had the impression that the band had issues with Dave simply because of his politics. Seems to me they had problems with his personality more than anything else. When you like someone, their politics don't matter much. But when you don't like someone and can't get along with them, their politics that you don't like are just another nail in the coffin.
You obviously have no idea what Glorified G was written about.
pretty sure PJ_Soul knows.
his departure was not just about the two guns he owned. it was his interest in celebrity, the posh lifestyle, being on magazine covers, etc. , and his personality just didn't mesh with Jeff and Ed. simplifying it to just glorified g is silly.
Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
as stated several times, it's not up to the band. the bands/artists have zero control over which members get inducted. it's all up to the Hall.
I'm a drummer so obviously I'm an expert. Dave A is by far the best studio drummer they have had. Can he do what Matt C does night in night out, I don't know I never saw Dave A live. Remember bands for the most part don't care about the creativity of a drummer they just want him to keep time because they can't. The drumming on VS. is incredible. I have always felt bad for him and remember when it was announced they replaced and couldn't understand why (now I know). He should be included in the HoF even though it doesn't mean shit!
Man. I'm drummer for over 15 years and completely disagree. His drumming to me is so easy to replicate compared to Matt. Especially when Matt goes odd times. It's actually great to hear someone with an opposite opinion who also drums. There are so many moments during live bootlegs where it sounds like a song might fall apart and the heart , MFC, holds it together. The dude can play hundreds of songd at any given time. To me he is a machine! And I could of swore I read that Dave A had trouble keeping time in the studio. Especially while recording RVM. Am I remembering wrong? Anyway who cares lol. Our boys are nominated and that's all that matters to me. I guess it's silly arguing over someone who hasn't been in the picture for the last 20 years.
I agree. Dave A is a pretty simplistic drummer and never really contributed much in the studio. I also remember hearing he struggled with songs in studio recording Vs
In what way is he simplistic?
Dave Grohl struggled at the Nevermind recordings.
I just find Dave A drumming fairly average. Just an opinion. Matt Cameron is an absolute beast in studio and especially live. Love his fills and timing. I loved Jacks tribal style as well. Not sure what Dave Grohl has to do with anything (phenomenal drummer BTW).
I dig Dave A's drumming! I loved his use of the cymbals. I don't know him personally, so I can't comment on him as a person. I do feel he was a crucial part of PJ during his time in the band!
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I think it would be cool if they reconsidered and included Dave and Jack (even Boom), but it's not my call.
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Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
as stated several times, it's not up to the band. the bands/artists have zero control over which members get inducted. it's all up to the Hall.
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
as stated several times, it's not up to the band. the bands/artists have zero control over which members get inducted. it's all up to the Hall.
Which doesn't make sense to me.
How about the Hall let the Band/s decide?
because most bands, by the time they are eligible, are not on speaking terms. how would they decide? it would be worse. imagine axl rose choosing. or billy corgan. or gene simmons. or don henley. or roger waters. or courtney love.
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I thinks this kind of reasoning is irrelevant. Anyone could have played bass also. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the basslines.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
as stated several times, it's not up to the band. the bands/artists have zero control over which members get inducted. it's all up to the Hall.
Which doesn't make sense to me.
How about the Hall let the Band/s decide?
because most bands, by the time they are eligible, are not on speaking terms. how would they decide? it would be worse. imagine axl rose choosing. or billy corgan. or gene simmons. or don henley. or roger waters. or courtney love.
Wouldn't be a problem.
Guns N Roses are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present.
Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Axl Rose, because he owns it.
Smashing Pumpkins are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present. Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Billy Corgan, because he owns it.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I thinks this kind of reasoning is irrelevant. Anyone could have played bass also. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the basslines.
We aren't talking about bassists, we re talking drummers so it is relevant. Plus the bassist of Pearl Jam did write one of the biggest songs of the 90s.
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I thinks this kind of reasoning is irrelevant. Anyone could have played bass also. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the basslines.
In the context of "should Dave A be inducted in the RRHOF w/ Pearl Jam?" It is completely relevant.
I like member-berries as much as anyone, but at the end of the day, Dave A wasn't as great or prolific a drummer as people romanticize him to be. The guy was good, and they made 2 awesome albums with him, but this isn't Danny Carey we're talking about here.
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I thinks this kind of reasoning is irrelevant. Anyone could have played bass also. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the basslines.
In the context of "should Dave A be inducted in the RRHOF w/ Pearl Jam?" It is completely relevant.
I like member-berries as much as anyone, but at the end of the day, Dave A wasn't as great or prolific a drummer as people romanticize him to be. The guy was good, and they made 2 awesome albums with him, but this isn't Danny Carey we're talking about here.
I was thinking it only had to with the albums he was on. Member berries for sure. I could care less if he's in or not. Good drummer, nowhere near great. The albums were great.
Shame on PJ for not including them (if they wanted in there, they're be there) Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
as stated several times, it's not up to the band. the bands/artists have zero control over which members get inducted. it's all up to the Hall.
Which doesn't make sense to me.
How about the Hall let the Band/s decide?
because most bands, by the time they are eligible, are not on speaking terms. how would they decide? it would be worse. imagine axl rose choosing. or billy corgan. or gene simmons. or don henley. or roger waters. or courtney love.
Wouldn't be a problem.
Guns N Roses are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present.
Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Axl Rose, because he owns it.
Smashing Pumpkins are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present. Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Billy Corgan, because he owns it.
those are but two examples of the frontman "owning" the band. in most cases, that just isn't the case.
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I think anyone could have drummed during the Dave a era and Pearl Jam would have been just as big. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the drumming lol
I thinks this kind of reasoning is irrelevant. Anyone could have played bass also. No one fell in love with Pearl Jam due to the basslines.
In the context of "should Dave A be inducted in the RRHOF w/ Pearl Jam?" It is completely relevant.
I like member-berries as much as anyone, but at the end of the day, Dave A wasn't as great or prolific a drummer as people romanticize him to be. The guy was good, and they made 2 awesome albums with him, but this isn't Danny Carey we're talking about here.
I was thinking it only had to with the albums he was on. Member berries for sure. I could care less if he's in or not. Good drummer, nowhere near great. The albums were great.
My line about Cameron being a better drummer was saved from a previous draft........ I should have deleted that before posting (edited!)
Inducting the first and last drummers is a solution that everyone can accept, but they really should induct all the PJ drummers. (and Tupac and Janet and Depeche Mode and Joan Baez) I think each drummer made a significant contribution; some more than others, of course; but speak up PJ, and do what's fair.
It's names on a plaque, not the last lifeboat. What's wrong with adding 3 more names. RRHOF is just being trifling.
Inducting the first and last drummers is a solution that everyone can accept, but they really should induct all the PJ drummers. (and Tupac and Janet and Depeche Mode and Joan Baez) I think each drummer made a significant contribution; some more than others, of course; but speak up PJ, and do what's fair.
It's names on a plaque, not the last lifeboat. What's wrong with adding 3 more names. RRHOF is just being trifling.
Yeah, but what's 'fair?'
Many people are calling for the band to 'do what's fair' or 'do the right thing' but who are we to tell PJ what's fair or right? They know who wrote what & who contributed where. They know what happened behind the scenes, we don't. None of us were there so who are we to decide what's fair or right when it comes to them being honored for their library of work?
Inducting the first and last drummers is a solution that everyone can accept, but they really should induct all the PJ drummers. (and Tupac and Janet and Depeche Mode and Joan Baez) I think each drummer made a significant contribution; some more than others, of course; but speak up PJ, and do what's fair.
It's names on a plaque, not the last lifeboat. What's wrong with adding 3 more names. RRHOF is just being trifling.
there's nothing PJ can do. Lot's of bands complained about wanting certain members in but the Hall wouldn't budge
Comments
Dave Grohl struggled at the Nevermind recordings.
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his departure was not just about the two guns he owned. it was his interest in celebrity, the posh lifestyle, being on magazine covers, etc. , and his personality just didn't mesh with Jeff and Ed. simplifying it to just glorified g is silly.
www.headstonesband.com
Jack's contributions to No Code and Yield (and Merkin Ball, Hey Foxy...) are beyond dispute
Dave A was on Vs and Vitalogy. That's all you need to say.
As for Boom, I don't think of him as a full member. Sure, he tours/records with them, but I don't think they worry about his schedule when doing either. Can you imagine? Mike wants to record, but Boom's busy in Hawaii so they scrap the album...never would happen. They're gracious to put him in some of the band photos online (but not on magazines, interviews, etc).
www.headstonesband.com
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How about the Hall let the Band/s decide?
www.headstonesband.com
Guns N Roses are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present.
Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Axl Rose, because he owns it.
Smashing Pumpkins are elected/inducted as a band – from start off to present.
Whoever gets to go to the show and play and say their thanks you's are up to the band - as in Billy Corgan, because he owns it.
Plus the bassist of Pearl Jam did write one of the biggest songs of the 90s.
I like member-berries as much as anyone, but at the end of the day, Dave A wasn't as great or prolific a drummer as people romanticize him to be. The guy was good, and they made 2 awesome albums with him, but this isn't Danny Carey we're talking about here.
www.headstonesband.com
It's names on a plaque, not the last lifeboat. What's wrong with adding 3 more names. RRHOF is just being trifling.
Many people are calling for the band to 'do what's fair' or 'do the right thing' but who are we to tell PJ what's fair or right? They know who wrote what & who contributed where. They know what happened behind the scenes, we don't. None of us were there so who are we to decide what's fair or right when it comes to them being honored for their library of work?