Only 2 Drummers Get In? RnRHOF. Merged

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

I really couldn't care less if Dave A is included... I guess I care a little more about Jack, but meh, whatever. Seems to me that the Hall of Fame has rules, and they are following the rules. Good enough for me, and PJ should respect the rules. I assume that rule is to prevent a dozen people from one band being inducted, even if half of them barely did anything over the years. Makes sense.
I can't fucking believe anyone is suggesting that PJ boycott the HoF for the sake of Dave A, lmao.

that's the thing, though. both Dave A and Jack fit the criteria (either being a founding member or being on 2 or more albums). besides that, the hall just inducts whoever the fuck they want, with no input from the band themselves.

The Rolling Stones have 8 members inducted.
The Yardbirds have 7, as do Sly and the Family Stone
Grateful Dead have 12.
Parliament Funkadelic have 16.
Fleetwood Mac have 8.
Earth Wind and Fire have 9.
Skynyrd have 9.

and the list goes on.

To me just induct Matt, not Dave K, or induct them all (not Matt Chamberlain).

I'm sorry, I must have relied on a bad source then. I thought the rule was the founding member and the current member only? If that's not true, then I dunno, I guess it's arbitrary and that's their rule. Basically, I support whatever the hell the HoH wants to do, since it's their decision. I just looked up their own little blurb about it, which isn't very informative. It just says: "Artists—a group encompassing performers, composers and/or musicians—become eligible for induction 25 years after the release of their first record. Besides demonstrating unquestionable musical excellence and talent, inductees will have had a significant impact on the development, evolution and preservation of rock & roll." So if they have no other rules about it, then perhaps they don't feel that Dave A and Jack Irons had enough impact on the development of the band or something. Maybe not enough song-writing contributions? Whatever it is, I'm sure it's not personal, and therefore, I don't give a shit.

well, yeah, I'm sure it's not personal. but it's irritating to fans when they give no logical reasons for inducting/not inducting certain former members of a group. or even current members of a group. there's a lot of criticism because it's owned and started by a non-musician and there has been loads of controversy over groups snubbed, and them basically putting one group in over another to create a balance (like inducting a rap act instead of a rock act to make it look more diverse). it's stupid.

I do agree that inducting non-rock artists is stupid. Makes no sense at all. Although I suppose it's to make up for the fact that there is no such thing as a Rap Hall of Fame.... I would suggest they change the name to accommodate that, but anything else just sounds stupid and would be TOO inclusive, i.e. you call it the Music Hall of Fame and all of a sudden classical pianists and pan flutists would have their knickers in a knot, lol. So what could it be called? I don't know. The Non-Country, Non-Classical, Non-Et Al Music Hall of Fame?

Anyway, I simply feel absolutely zero attachment to the ex-drummers of Pearl Jam. To be honest, unless they are John Bonham, I never really feel much of an attachment to drummers. I do love drumming, so I suspect that the issue is indeed that they aren't John Bonham, who I consider the greatest musician of all time. All other drummers just have too much to live up to in my own head, so I don't get too wrapped up in who deserves what credit when it comes to PJ drummers. Matt is their drummer. That's how I think of it.

You're quick - I edited in a point about my fucked up feelings about drummers, lol.

Spoken said:

jp307677 said:

MP188882 said:

jambayleaf said:

I think it's poor taste for Dave A. to make a comment the day of the list of POSSIBLE inductees, like he wants his due NOW! Let the chips fall dude. See what happens. Great drummer, but in the history of this band, he was a splash in the pan. My three cents. They need to Hit Em' With The Hein.

http://www.alternativenation.net/dave-abbruzzese-responds-pearl-jam-rock-hall-fame-snub/

For those looking for Dave's comments. He's also on FB.

What a loser.

Wow.
Drummer on Vs. & Vitalogy, yes a complete loser.

Dave A = :loser:

DewieCox said:

jp307677 said:

mcgruff10 said:

Is Pearl Jam a better (and I know completely different) live band now or 1994?

NOW. No question whatsoever

Oh come on. PJ has always, ALWAYS been an amazing live act. I enjoy the longer sets and what they've become as a live band, but I'd give back a few post 2k shows to experience a show from 93 or 94. Different, not better or worse.

I'm kinda disheartened that so few fans think Dave A and Jack are deserving of the honor.

I can't speak for others, but I don't really think they aren't deserving of the honour... I just can't muster up the energy to care about it on their behalf, lol, especially since it is true that Dave A and Jack didn't contribute all that much to the actual songs, according to the writing credits. I mean really, when was the last time Pearl Jam had anything happen to them or that they did that wasn't tainted by a whole lot of negativity/controversy for one reason or another? I guess I was just hoping that their long-anticipated induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame - something people have been talking about for years now - could go ahead without a big controversy over something that isn't even in the band's control. I'd really rather not see a fucking boycott or some kind of debate between the band and the HoF happen. What with this whole US election disaster... I don't know if I can take it and a PJ/HoF showdown too.

red mos said:

I wonder if every member gets a trophy even if they are not at the ceremony? Josh got in with RHCP and he really wasn't even a member at that point. But on the hall of fame page, it has all the members listed.

Yeah the youngster RHCP guitarist is probably why this is a bigger issue already this year. That guy had done practically nothing with them yet got to be inducted. What a fucking joke.

Spoken said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

it doesn't matter if Jack was responsible for keeping them together. the hall has nothing to do with that. if it did, they'd have to induct managers, wives, friends, yoga instructors, psychologists, Metallica's therapist, etc, etc.

My comment was in response to SC who said I romanticized JI's role in the band.

I'm not saying JI deserves to be inducted w/ the band, I'm saying DA's contribution is way overstated as compared to JI.

I'm surprised ANY drummers besides Cameron are getting in.

well, the only role you stated about jack was the spiritual one, which I don't think qualifies as a consideration. Anyway, we might be talking apples and oranges here.

I think Dave's contributions were huge, drumming wise. they played their heaviest shit when they needed to play their heaviest shit. not that this SHOULD matter, but when speaking of the Hall, it seems to: he played on their two biggest commerically successful albums that were not Ten.

I also quoted Brendan O'Brien as saying the band was barely communicating at the time, but seemed to act professional around JI - I don't think that quote should be overlooked or dismissed.

IDK.... read the article I linked if you get the chance. That, and other articles I read not too long ago paint a picture of a band on the verge of imploding, and it seems like JI brought them back together (Jeff didn't even know the band had started sessions on NC, it sound's like a pretty dark time for them - I'll see if I can't dig up the other articles I recall reading a little later)

As someone else mentioned, I feel like VS & Vitalogy were going to happen regardless of whatever drummer they found. After reading the articles I did, it seemed like NC & Yield never would have happened had JI not come along.

Regarding their meteoric rise to fame during DA's tenure - I think that had as much if not more to do with the whole grunge / alternative movement of the time as it did whomever was behind the kit. I feel like it would have happened regardless of who played drums at the time, that's my $0.02.

Peace.

Are you saying all drummers are the same?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all.

DA was a great drummer and they made 2 incredible albums together. That was a very unique sound that PJ has never quite recaptured, and they would have sounded very different with any other drummer. I still think their 2nd & 3rd albums would have been pretty damn successful riding the coattails of 10, but for sure he was a great drummer for the band and did a lot for their sound. I don't think it's right to credit DA for their success in the early '90s (at least not exclusively), but that's just me.

I think JI is a great drummer too...... I don't think PJ writes Who You Are or In My Tree without him (two of my favorite PJ tunes). He may not have the chops that DA has, but I personally like what he brought to the table for their studio work. (never got to see either live, so I can't comment on that)
I also think JI's drum work on Brain of J are as good as anything DA ever recorded with the band - that track alone would make me a huge Jack Irons fan, even if I had heard nothing else by the guy.

If anything, I think Krusen is the least dynamic of the 4 guys who played on their studio albums, but whatever, he was there at the start.

I think, if anything else, the body of work is exactly what showcases what each drummer brought to the band at their particular time, which is why I think it's either Matt alone or all 4 of them. It's a chicken and the egg thing, when we talk about things like "had Dave still been in the band, would No Code and Yield have been No Code and Yield?". "Riot Act wouldn't have been Riot Act without Matt". Did they write with the drummer in mind, or did he just happen to compliment the style they were going for at the time? Either way, I think Dave and Jack made a pretty big impact. Look at Jack trying to play Go. I also can't imagine Dave being able to grasp the groove to play In My Tree. Matt is a great drummer, but the fucker needs to slow down live! LOL.

and there's no doubt that Eddie idolizes Matt. I don't think this will even be addressed by him at all. if it gets addressed, it will be on the podium, a flip comment by Mike or Stone. that's it.

I would love to see Dave on the drums for one song at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame show. The fans would too.

But Matt is Pearl Jam. Love the band and how it's aged since 1994. Like a fine wine or a good 80's comedy - it's perfect.

Matt started on the 1998 American tour did he not? he has been in the band for 18 of the 25 years. i've seen 27 shows now and have never seen the band with another drummer. it should be Matt's stage alone when they perform. Honor the others maybe, but keep the others off that stage.