Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL

Annafalk · June 2016

callen said:

Annafalk said:
According to a research at Uppsala university more than half of the death victims right now in the world is directly connected with militant Islamists, jihadism.

http://m.sputniknews.com/middleeast/20160615/1041373286/sweden-jihad-war-casualties.html
Again Iraq. US and our western allies killed 100's of thousands of Muslims and created the mess we have there.

Many in the "west" was also against the war in Iraq. Sometimes a "few" politics make horrendous decisions draging everyone along that don't want anything to do with it. I was one of those protesting against that war.

Degeneratefk · June 2016

A gun shop owner reported Mateen to the authorities a few weeks before the shooting when mateen tried to purchase weapons and armor. This is sounding more like the government vetting system dropped the ball.

Godfather. · June 2016

bootlegger10 said:

Degeneratefk said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.

Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...

https://youtu.be/xEMHKO5MC6c

The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).

No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..

agreed.

Godfather.

mrussel1 · June 2016

mace1229 said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.

Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
The problem with "See something say something" is we've become too PC and no one wants to offend anyone else. Especially after examples of that kid bringing a home made clock to school and sued for millions and people who reported it were heavily criticized and disciplined. So what happened next? The San Bernardino shooting happened where multiple neighbors said they saw suspicious activity but were afraid of saying something because they didn't want to be labeled racist and be sued for harassment.
What if that homemade clock turned out to be a bomb, how much more angry would everyone have been if they didn't say anything? But that didn't matter, the DOJ accused the staff of being racist and discrimination. That's why people don't say anything, then we blame them when they don't.

That's an interesting point and certainly valid. I was thinking more about the need for the Muslim community to speak up and point law enforcement towards the potential perps. I wasn't thinking about it from the non-Muslim view. The Imans and leaders of the communities likely know who is at risk of becoming radicalized. They need to become more involved and not just say the right words afterwards. Perhaps they do. We don't know because we only see when something happens, not when something is thwarted.

Gern Blansten · June 2016

I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

mrussel1 · June 2016

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.

You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?

Gern Blansten · June 2016

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?

I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.

Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together

edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.

Godfather. · June 2016

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?

I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2016

callen said:

bootlegger10 said:

Degeneratefk said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.

Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...

https://youtu.be/xEMHKO5MC6c

The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).

No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.

God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.

Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.

Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?

USA USA USA.

Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.

The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?

The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.

Why do you gotta be that way?

Godfather. · June 2016

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

bootlegger10 said:

Degeneratefk said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.

Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...

https://youtu.be/xEMHKO5MC6c

The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).

No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.

God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.

Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.

Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?

USA USA USA.
Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.

The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?

The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.

Why do you gotta be that way?

HAYYYYYYY....I resemble that remark !

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · June 2016

Godfather. said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

callen said:

bootlegger10 said:

Degeneratefk said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

BS44325 said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Godfather. said:
question: if your mother, sister or any loved one said she was marrying a muslim and flying to Pakistan to meet the family, wouldn't you be the least bit concerned ? my friends daughter did just that and it did not go well in fact her husbands father hated the white American girl his son married then would let her leave the house or the country, if my friend didn't have friends in government she may have never come home...you don't want to ask him about muslims.

Godfather.
I would be concerned, of course, because of the treatment of women in that country. But that has zero to do with deporting American citizens who are Muslims, which is what you floated yesterday.
how else would we get a handle on the terrorism committed by "home grown muslims" ?

Godfather.

The same way we stamp out terrorism by Dylan Roof, the Colorado shooter, Timothy McVeigh and the Bundy clan. Intelligence, surveillance when supported by legal orders, and 'see something, say something'. There is NOTHING that gives us the right to take away the rights, deport or detain citizens. If we learned nothing else from the Japanese internment camps, let's learn that.
Let's also learn that Islamic ideology is a problem. Please watch this...

https://youtu.be/xEMHKO5MC6c

The point this speaker is making is that these thoughts are mainstream. This is what everyone must comprehend and this is he ideology that must be confronted. With strength we must say this is not ok. No more being tolerant of the intolerant.
And we need to be intolerant of the intolerant. You're not going to extinguish the largest religion in the world so you must marginalize extremism. That's the point.
The goal isn't to extinguish but to implement a reformation and this can't happen until we are at least willing to recognize the full depth of the problem.
Can we also implement reform for the radical christians?
We should discuss that "problem" when everyone from Muslim countries aren't trying to immigrate to historically Christian countries (European countries, US, Canada).

No one is trying immigrate the other way unless they are wannabe terrorists because shocker....historically Christian countries are a whole lot safer and provide more freedom than Muslim nations..
Tell that to the families of the thousands that are killed by guns in the good ole USA. We're a Christian nation. Christian nation that cherishes right to buy military style weapons that were used in this killing.

God and guns and hate. USA USA USA.

Can deflect about other countries and cultures but we created a mess.

Then we have racist baiting presidential republican nominee!?!?!?!?

USA USA USA.
Horrible argument. As goofy as some of GF's, but from the other side of the spectrum. Just terrible.

The USA is a mixed bag. It is not a Christian nation. Are you Christian?

The Middle East occupation is about oil and capitalism is at its roots. Period. There's a little piece of it tied to the US relations with Saudi (again oil and profit related). But to say it's Christians that have rallied to fight opponents of the bible is ridiculous.

Why do you gotta be that way?

HAYYYYYYY....I resemble that remark !

Godfather.

Lol.

I thought you only skimmed posts!

Godfather. · June 2016

usally, but I'm waiting a parts process.
hope all is well man.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon · June 2016

Degeneratefk said:
A gun shop owner reported Mateen to the authorities a few weeks before the shooting when mateen tried to purchase weapons and armor. This is sounding more like the government vetting system dropped the ball.

I can only imagine how many reports they get. there's probably a whole shitload of people trying to buy that stuff because they think Obama is coming to get them (as illustrated in this thread and the gun thread).

Bentleyspop · June 2016

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.

Godfather.

You guys are confusing his ex-wife with his current wife.
Been divorced from.the first wife for 7 or 8 years.
Current wife appears to have been aware of an upcoming attack and didn't tell.anyone.

Get your facts straight

Ledbetterman10 · June 2016

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.

Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together

edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.

I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.

This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.

Godfather. · June 2016

yup ! gun sales soar every time that goofball opens his mouth about guns, the weapons manufactures of the world love him !

Godfather.

PJPOWER · June 2016

Bentleyspop said:

Godfather. said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I watched that gal on the news last night, she accused him of being gay and said his father told him once he is gay then runs of a tangent about how afraid she was......the cops believe she was aware of the whole thing and didn't say a word till he got whacked.

Godfather.

You guys are confusing his ex-wife with his current wife.
Been divorced from.the first wife for 7 or 8 years.
Current wife appears to have been aware of an upcoming attack and didn't tell.anyone.

Get your facts straight

How irresponsible of her. Maybe she didn't think he would actually follow through? She is going to have a rough time explaining her reasoning in court.

rgambs · June 2016

Godfather. said:
yup ! gun sales soar every time that goofball opens his mouth about guns, the weapons manufactures of the world love him !

Godfather.

It isn't very hard to separate a fool from his money lol

rgambs · June 2016

Ledbetterman10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.

Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together

edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.

This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.

Your first and second paragraphs don't really jive for me. The fact that ISIS leadership is not instrumental in planning and coordinating attacks is evidence that military action won't have the desired effect.
Unfortunately, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, whatever you call it is a thing bigger than itself now, if we bomb away the current incarnation, it will pop up somewhere else. Lone shooters will continue to pledge their allegiance to the Islamic State even if the actual organization is decimated, and as long as there are even a handful of actual, on the ground participants, they will continue to claim credit for attacks they didn't orchestrate.

mcgruff10 · June 2016

rgambs said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mrussel1 said:

Gern Blansten said:
I can just about guarantee you that the FBI already has plants/paid informants inside mosques. Just because we don't read about it in the news doesn't mean it's not happening.
You're right, but it can't just be informants. For example, why didn't his ex-wife dime him out?
I think the lone shooters are going to be nearly impossible to stop.

Was it his ex-wife? I thought they were still together

edit: honestly I've kind of wondered why we haven't seen more lone shooter terrorism (al-queada/ISIS, etc.) since 9/11.
I think lone-shooter terrorism will continue to grow. It appears, to me, that psychos all over the world are pledging their allegiance to ISIS. It seems (and I could be totally wrong about this) that Al-Qaeda would train terrorists and send them out on missions. ISIS surly does this too. But I think ISIS has many "members" that really have no connection to them other than pledging allegiance. Was the Orlando shooter under orders of ISIS to do what he did? Has he ever met or communicated with an ISIS official? The answer doesn't really matter. He did what he did because of the influence of ISIS; be it directly or just because he believes in the message of ISIS.

This is why I support military action against ISIS. Another "war on terror" I suppose. If the influence by the leaders of ISIS is so strong that it's trickling down to everyday psychopaths, we've got to cut the head off the snake so to speak. How do we do that? Well that's where I have no clue.
Your first and second paragraphs don't really jive for me. The fact that ISIS leadership is not instrumental in planning and coordinating attacks is evidence that military action won't have the desired effect.
Unfortunately, ISIL, ISIS, Daesh, whatever you call it is a thing bigger than itself now, if we bomb away the current incarnation, it will pop up somewhere else. Lone shooters will continue to pledge their allegiance to the Islamic State even if the actual organization is decimated, and as long as there are even a handful of actual, on the ground participants, they will continue to claim credit for attacks they didn't orchestrate.

ISIS just took it to another level:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/17/world/middleeast/isis-genocide-yazidi-un.html

GENEVA — Islamic State forces have committed genocide and other war crimes in a continuing effort to exterminate the Yazidi religious minority in Syria and Iraq, United Nations investigators said on Thursday, urging stronger international action to halt the killing and to prosecute the terrorist group.

The investigators detailed mass killings of Yazidi men and boys who refused to convert to Islam, saying they were shot in the head or their throats were slit, often in front of their families, littering roadsides with corpses. Dozens of mass graves have been uncovered in areas recaptured from Islamic State and are being investigated.

The investigators have produced 11 reports documenting wide-ranging crimes against humanity and war crimes committed by many parties to the five-year-old civil war in Syria, but in a report released on Thursday, they invoked the crime of genocide. They based their findings on actions taken by the Islamic State since August 2014 against 400,000 members of the Yazidi community, followers of a centuries-old religion drawing on many faiths.

Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL

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