Terrorist Shooting In Orlando, FL

benjs

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

Given that you're not talking about a single percentage point of Muslims who seek to bastardize the name of their religion and terrorize because of it, my opinion is that humans owe it to humans to allow and assist in the pursuit of a better life, when those humans are willing to abide by the laws of the land and pay dues through taxes and improvements to the economy and social setting of their new home. Of course Americans will never see that - the United States aren't truly United States with the exception of the currency - let alone part of a united world where people care for each other's well being. When I visit America, I am hundreds of times more afraid of untreated mentally ill persons, or radical bigots such as yourself (who will protect your right to carry lethal weapons until death) than radical Islamists. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm the only one.

Degeneratefk

This attack had very little to do with ISIS and a lot to do with a man very confused and conflicted with his religion and sexuality.

Godfather.

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

Given that you're not talking about a single percentage point of Muslims who seek to bastardize the name of their religion and terrorize because of it, my opinion is that humans owe it to humans to allow and assist in the pursuit of a better life, when those humans are willing to abide by the laws of the land and pay dues through taxes and improvements to the economy and social setting of their new home. Of course Americans will never see that - the United States aren't truly United States with the exception of the currency - let alone part of a united world where people care for each other's well being. When I visit America, I am hundreds of times more afraid of untreated mentally ill persons, or radical bigots such as yourself (who will protect your right to carry lethal weapons until death) than radical Islamists. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm the only one.

when you visit America ? where are you ?

Godfather.

Godfather.

Degeneratefk said:

This attack had very little to do with ISIS and a lot to do with a man very confused and conflicted with his religion and sexuality.

your opinion, cool.

Godfather.

Degeneratefk

Godfather. said:

Degeneratefk said:

This attack had very little to do with ISIS and a lot to do with a man very confused and conflicted with his religion and sexuality.

your opinion, cool.

Godfather.

I actually did forget to put IMO after that.

g under p

Degeneratefk said:

This attack had very little to do with ISIS and a lot to do with a man very confused and conflicted with his religion and sexuality.

I agree with that.....to me he was conflicted about his sexuality and used ISIS as a cover for the horrible crimes he was committing in that club. His first wife flat out said he was gay, he had apps on his phone to gay sites and asked out former classmates and was turned down. All knowing how homosexuality is viewed negatively in the Muslim world.

Peace

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

radicals/terrorists are bred, not born (much like racists). maybe their parents came here in search of a better life, but ended up being marginilized and treated as second class citizens after 9/11. maybe they got tired of watching the news of Bush bombing their relatives back home to unrecognizable bits to "liberate them".

yeah, it's all obama's fault. haha. if you do some reading, your military, under agreement with the Iraqi government, was no longer welcome to stay. so he pulled them out. the iraqis failed (how could they not?). should he have flipped them the bird and said "we're staying, tough shit"? then everyone would be crying foul every time another american soldier came back in a bodybag. no matter what he does, people will say everything is his fault. you elevate the man to god-like status without even knowing, that everything comes down to his actions/inactions.

you never say anything about what got your military to the mid east in the first place. it's like blaming the parent for not perfectly cleaning up after their petulant child.

how do you control a terrorist entity that knows no borders, no specific government or land mass? that's a tough one. germany was tough enough. imagine they were everywhere in the world, not just in germany. imagine that world. the MASSIVE difference is, you don't have armies of terrorists. you have cells. single suicide bombers. which actually makes it more difficult. it's like chasing ghosts.

do you harm the masses because of the actions of a miniscule few? nope. that's just not how the world works, plus, you are basically handing ISIS thousands and possibly millions more supporters/sympathizers if you do that. breeding terrorists is something the US government does very well, unfortunately. they haven't learned from it. Obama is actually trying his best NOT to do that. which is really all he can really do at this point. try to contain the problem instead of exacerbating it like Trump is/will.

Trump is exactly what ISIS wants: an excuse to cause more carnage.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Religion still at the root of the problem if the recently plausible theories truly account for his actions.

The day people free themselves from their indoctrinated beliefs is the day this world will be a much better place.

Brainwashing is a very powerful thing. I remember what it was like to truly believe in God as a kid- he was very real in my mind. It took a lot of questioning without receiving adequate answers to have the idea of him begin to unravel. Once it did though, I was prepared to accept the reality I was facing even though aspects of it were daunting (no Heaven? Well that's the shits).

Degeneratefk

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Religion still at the root of the problem if the recently plausible theories truly account for his actions.

The day people free themselves from their indoctrinated beliefs is the day this world will be a much better place.

Brainwashing is a very powerful thing. I remember what it was like to truly believe in God as a kid- he was very real in my mind. It took a lot of questioning without receiving adequate answers to have the idea of him begin to unravel. Once it did though, I was prepared to accept the reality I was facing even though aspects of it were daunting (no Heaven? Well that's the shits).

I have pretty much the same experience in regards to religion and the inadequate answers to all of my questions.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

radicals/terrorists are bred, not born (much like racists). maybe their parents came here in search of a better life, but ended up being marginilized and treated as second class citizens after 9/11. maybe they got tired of watching the news of Bush bombing their relatives back home to unrecognizable bits to "liberate them".

yeah, it's all obama's fault. haha. if you do some reading, your military, under agreement with the Iraqi government, was no longer welcome to stay. so he pulled them out. the iraqis failed (how could they not?). should he have flipped them the bird and said "we're staying, tough shit"? then everyone would be crying foul every time another american soldier came back in a bodybag. no matter what he does, people will say everything is his fault. you elevate the man to god-like status without even knowing, that everything comes down to his actions/inactions.

you never say anything about what got your military to the mid east in the first place. it's like blaming the parent for not perfectly cleaning up after their petulant child.

how do you control a terrorist entity that knows no borders, no specific government or land mass? that's a tough one. germany was tough enough. imagine they were everywhere in the world, not just in germany. imagine that world. the MASSIVE difference is, you don't have armies of terrorists. you have cells. single suicide bombers. which actually makes it more difficult. it's like chasing ghosts.

do you harm the masses because of the actions of a miniscule few? nope. that's just not how the world works, plus, you are basically handing ISIS thousands and possibly millions more supporters/sympathizers if you do that. breeding terrorists is something the US government does very well, unfortunately. they haven't learned from it. Obama is actually trying his best NOT to do that. which is really all he can really do at this point. try to contain the problem instead of exacerbating it like Trump is/will.

Trump is exactly what ISIS wants: an excuse to cause more carnage.

awesome reply ! I disagree on a few things but whats new right, and I would rather not go into some of them.

Godfather.

Go Beavers

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

McVeigh told The Guardian that he did not believe in heaven or hell.

http://www.businessinsider.com/20-years-after-the-oklahoma-city-bombing-timothy-mcveigh-remains-the-only-terrorist-executed-by-us-2015-4

Your link just has a paraphrase from a journalist years after and doesn't go into before the bombing. There's also many other individual acts where people have murdered motivated by their own version of Christianity. But once again, my point isn't that Christian extremist are as violent as Muslim extremists, it's that fundamentalism is the problem. And fundamentalism takes different forms, religion being just one of them.

Godfather.

....but I will say that bad seeds are born just as you might say gay children are born, this guy who killed all those people at the gay bar had a history of ..unruliness starting back in grade school and probably earlier.

Godfather.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Go Beavers said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

McVeigh told The Guardian that he did not believe in heaven or hell.

http://www.businessinsider.com/20-years-after-the-oklahoma-city-bombing-timothy-mcveigh-remains-the-only-terrorist-executed-by-us-2015-4

Your link just has a paraphrase from a journalist years after and doesn't go into before the bombing. There's also many other individual acts where people have murdered motivated by their own version of Christianity. But once again, my point isn't that Christian extremist are as violent as Muslim extremists, it's that fundamentalism is the problem. And fundamentalism takes different forms, religion being just one of them.

I still think it's not valid to suggest we abhor Muslim terrorist acts more than we abhor Christian terrorist acts which was something you hinted at on page 19 of this thread.

To suggest something like that... we would need a genuine Christian terrorist act to compare one of the many Muslim terrorist acts we have been treated to recently... and then compare the responses. The McVeigh case was suggested as one, but it's not a Christian terrorist act. There have been no others presented (even in your post you referred to 'many other individual acts' instead of anything specific).

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

....but I will say that bad seeds are born just as you might say gay children are born, this guy who killed all those people at the gay bar had a history of ..unruliness starting back in grade school and probably earlier.

Godfather.

people can be born mentally ill....possibly. we don't know that yet. but people aren't born hating anyone. hate is learned.

mace1229

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.

No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...

The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

....but I will say that bad seeds are born just as you might say gay children are born, this guy who killed all those people at the gay bar had a history of ..unruliness starting back in grade school and probably earlier.

Godfather.

people can be born mentally ill....possibly. we don't know that yet. but people aren't born hating anyone. hate is learned.

Word. Precisely true.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

....but I will say that bad seeds are born just as you might say gay children are born, this guy who killed all those people at the gay bar had a history of ..unruliness starting back in grade school and probably earlier.

Godfather.

people can be born mentally ill....possibly. we don't know that yet. but people aren't born hating anyone. hate is learned.

True to an extant, some people are born and grow up without ever feeling remorse, they may not hate at all but they also are able to kill and go to bed at night and not lose a min. of sleep but for the most part I agree hate is learned from life's experiences or it's taught.
the human brain is a mystery for sure and I feel that's where it all begins.

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

Well the racism directed at "homegrown Muslims" probably isn't helping. That is likely very alienating and drives some (very few, but some) to develop anti-American sentiment and to look outwards for a sense of belonging. Alienated people are exactly what ISIS looks for when recruiting.

PJ_Soul

mace1229 said:

PJPOWER said:

PJ_Soul said:

I figure every single call from a gun shop owner should be taken seriously. Every single one should be investigated thoroughly.

No joke! Speaking of "common sense". Wasn't there a similar circumstance in either the CO or AZ shooting where authorities disregarded warnings by a psychologist or something? Seems like I have heard this story before...

The problem is the first time its taken seriously and the gun shop is wrong, they'll probably be sued for discrimination (and lose) and no other gun shops will want to make those phone calls anymore.
Like all the school shootings, everyone asks how the parents, teachers and counselors didn't see anything. But when a kid brings in a home made clock and a teacher reports it, they get sued for millions. Now teachers are afraid to report again, good job.

I kind of doubt that. I don't think anyone can be sued for contacting authorities when they perceive a threat to public safety. Not when weapons are involved. We're not talking about bakers here. They're people selling guns. That's a lot different.

benjs

Godfather. said:

benjs said:

Godfather. said:

I have an honest question: last night I watched several news channels and all them stated that ISIS was calling for more attacks on America from their followers here and all news stations seem to agree that more attacks could or will happen so my question is this...how do you people think those isis supporters got here and as for the "home grown" terrorist who do you guys think they are being influenced by ?

we have gone round and round about muslim involvement in US terror attacks and many of you think it's just part of the percentages of rouge muslims and basically no big deal.
I still stand by the thought of stopping all muslim entries in the US because the percentages are just too high, we can't solve every problem this way but it's a good start to minimalizing terrorist attacks on American soil and any immigrant and their children that are suspected of any involvement with terrorist or terrorist activity should be immediately investigated and detained or deported to the country they or their family is from.
this ISIS thing has got way out of control (thanks Obama) and something needs to be done to protect the American people.

Godfather.

Given that you're not talking about a single percentage point of Muslims who seek to bastardize the name of their religion and terrorize because of it, my opinion is that humans owe it to humans to allow and assist in the pursuit of a better life, when those humans are willing to abide by the laws of the land and pay dues through taxes and improvements to the economy and social setting of their new home. Of course Americans will never see that - the United States aren't truly United States with the exception of the currency - let alone part of a united world where people care for each other's well being. When I visit America, I am hundreds of times more afraid of untreated mentally ill persons, or radical bigots such as yourself (who will protect your right to carry lethal weapons until death) than radical Islamists. Unfortunately, I'm not sure I'm the only one.

when you visit America ? where are you ?

Godfather.

I'm in Canada, and I'm half-American (on my dad's side).