Why the hell did you wait so long to cancel?

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Comments

  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,092
    I agree with op. They should let us know why they waited.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,613
    If we're taking Eddie at his word I think we already know. For a while they thought they could play the show and make some donations, but as it drew closer the band decided it couldn't go through with that. I'm fine with accepting that as the explanation but will always believe the indecisiveness impacted fans unnecessarily.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • PJ1973
    PJ1973 Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 421
    edited April 2016
    rvapete said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ1973 said:

    my2hands said:

    walkunafraid said:


    Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

    I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

    So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

    Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).
    I'd think it was more of the angle "our lawyers manipulate the emergency cancelation clause in the contract with the arena so we don't have to pay them. That way the owners of PNC Arena who still need to compensate staff or have a labor riot get hit hard. Then they walk down the street and lobby the legislators along with the hotels, food and beverage and other industries to overturn the legislation"
    I have no idea.. The suggestion was made the timing of the cancellation had to do with contractual law, so I was trying to figure out what the contract would be. My first thought would be it would be more expensive to cancel within 48 hours instead of outside but that doesn't explain waiting until the last minute. But it's been years since I took Contracts. There are also all those other issues about labor law that I don't know about anymore. That's why I only practice criminal law
    PJ1973 said:

    rvapete said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ1973 said:

    my2hands said:

    walkunafraid said:


    Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

    I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

    So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

    Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).
    I'd think it was more of the angle "our lawyers manipulate the emergency cancelation clause in the contract with the arena so we don't have to pay them. That way the owners of PNC Arena who still need to compensate staff or have a labor riot get hit hard. Then they walk down the street and lobby the legislators along with the hotels, food and beverage and other industries to overturn the legislation"
    I have no idea.. The suggestion was made the timing of the cancellation had to do with contractual law, so I was trying to figure out what the contract would be. My first thought would be it would be more expensive to cancel within 48 hours instead of outside but that doesn't explain waiting until the last minute. But it's been years since I took Contracts. There are also all those other issues about labor law that I don't know about anymore. That's why I only practice criminal law!

    Post edited by PJ1973 on
  • pdalowsky
    pdalowsky Doncaster,UK Posts: 15,259
    bootlegger10 said:

    pdalowsky said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    Vedd Hedd said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    camsjam said:

    Maybe if cancelled less than 48 hours there would be high cancellation fees payable to the arena and the band was struggling with a decision until the last minute. Can't imagine they would have had to pay more if cancelling a week or two out. It's a done deal and I don't know what reasons are going to make the angrier fans understand. I rejoined 10c recently after reading as a guest for a time. Pearl Jam aside I thought this was such a positive community filled with intelligent, kind, funny and helpful people. Much different than most forums you see on the Internet. Okay some of you are a hot mess...but mostly in a good way. Life throws shit around all the time. I hate to see it make everyone bitter. Peace

    I just want an acknowledgement from the band that their indecision and delay cost people a lot more money and time than it should of. I want them to acknowledge they are business and screwed over their customers for their personal whims.
    Every time i am about to agree with you....you say something that makes me not agree with you.

    I would hardly call this a personal whim.

    You can hate the decision, and you can disagree with their approach to the protest. You can endorse HB2 if thats your thing, too. But do you really feel this is a personal whim?

    Do you really think they intentionally set out to hurt their own fans?

    The level of weirdness is pretty thick here.

    I do believe it is a personal whim. Let me preface this by saying I am not for the law. But I believe it is a personal whim for the following reasons:

    1) Pearl Jam's members are not politicians. If they would like to be then they should organize political fundraisers/rallies and not for-profit concerts.

    2) Pearl Jam is a rock band. They invited 15,000 people to their concert. They canceled two days out and put their views ahead of the 15,000 people they invited previously. If that is not a personal whim I don't know what is.

    3) They did not place the impact to their fans of any importance in their decision making because if they had they would have decided a week ago. They decided they would get to the decision when they felt like it a few days ago. Again, a decision based on personal whim and their feelings at the time. This is fact because it is what happened. There is no other explanation unless they reply to this thread.

    4) They never would have canceled if Bruce had played his show. So, again, a decision based on personal whim and not necessarily this deep, compelling sense of fairness. I truly will forever believe that deep down Ed didn't want to let Bruce down.

    5) To repeat, they don't know whether they are a business or a lobbying entity. Most days they wake up ready to sell tickets and merch for profit, and then a few days ago they decided, what the hell, let's be lobbyists even though our business organized a concert a long time ago.

    I think for future concerts they should breakeven and show no profit or loss, or donate all profits to political causes if they want to be lobbyists. If they want to be a business then they need to put their customers first and their personal political/social views second, or give their customers a say in what they do.
    Thing is this is largely based on your own conjecture but it is stated like they are facts.

    Sure it is my opinion, but unless they tell us a great reason why they didn't cancel a week ago to lessen the inconvenience to fans versus two days then I have to believe they were selfish and hoping they could be saved from having to make a call.
    Im fairly sure they were hoping to be saved from making the call, but I wouldn't consider that selfish......my thought is that they were being thoughtful in hoping it could go ahead and the fans wouldn't lose out. Cancelling it weeks ago, and then things getting sorted in the meantime would have been a trainwreck too

    but I understand fully the frustration, if this was one of my shows I would be far from thrilled. In fact im sure id be gutted. Im certainly not one of those folk who pops up here telling folk to get over it, its only money, and the greater good is being served. Because frankly that is a smack in the face of those who have lost money they can ill afford to. Or one of those fans who simply directs those who lost their show to go to another - that is such a needlessly blasé comment that has no consideration for the situation of others.
  • PJ1973
    PJ1973 Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 421
    PJ1973 said:

    rvapete said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ1973 said:

    my2hands said:

    walkunafraid said:


    Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

    I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

    So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

    Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).
    I'd think it was more of the angle "our lawyers manipulate the emergency cancelation clause in the contract with the arena so we don't have to pay them. That way the owners of PNC Arena who still need to compensate staff or have a labor riot get hit hard. Then they walk down the street and lobby the legislators along with the hotels, food and beverage and other industries to overturn the legislation"
    I have no idea.. The suggestion was made the timing of the cancellation had to do with contractual law, so I was trying to figure out what the contract would be. My first thought would be it would be more expensive to cancel within 48 hours instead of outside but that doesn't explain waiting until the last minute. But it's been years since I took Contracts. There are also all those other issues about labor law that I don't know about anymore. That's why I only practice criminal law!

  • PJ1973
    PJ1973 Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 421
    I have no idea.. The suggestion was made the timing of the cancellation had to do with contractual law, so I was trying to figure out what the contract would be. My first thought would be it would be more expensive to cancel within 48 hours instead of outside but that doesn't explain waiting until the last minute. But it's been years since I took Contracts. There are also all those other issues about labor law that I don't know about anymore. That's why I only practice criminal law!
  • PJForceofNature
    PJForceofNature Posts: 3,087
    adamg5 said:

    This is thread pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. I really hope the law changes because it's BS, but PJ really screwed a lot of fans by waiting so long to cancel IMHO. I don't get it and I totally understand how the cancellation, ruined the Hampton show for some. I do not feel I'm quite ready to have fun at a show yet knowing so many fans got the rug pulled out from underneath them....

    I feel the same way. I was so looking forward to the Philly 1 show, but now my enthusiasm has dimmed due to how sorry I am feeling for the fans who were only given 2 days notice about the Raleigh cancellation.
    "A beacon on dry land"
  • PJfanwillneverleave1
    PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    PJForceofNature said:

    adamg5 said:

    This is thread pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. I really hope the law changes because it's BS, but PJ really screwed a lot of fans by waiting so long to cancel IMHO. I don't get it and I totally understand how the cancellation, ruined the Hampton show for some. I do not feel I'm quite ready to have fun at a show yet knowing so many fans got the rug pulled out from underneath them....

    I feel the same way. I was so looking forward to the Philly 1 show, but now my enthusiasm has dimmed due to how sorry I am feeling for the fans who were only given 2 days notice about the Raleigh cancellation.
    Go to Lost Dogs and sell your tix.
    FV of course.
    Someone will be very happy and will bring it to the show.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    rvapete said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    PJ1973 said:

    my2hands said:

    walkunafraid said:



    How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

    I understand... but 48 hours? They could have announced last week, even Friday? Or announced if the bill still stood as law by 4/18 (or whenever) that they would cancel... they didn't make a peep while this debate raged for weeks and just when everyone assumed it was safe, BAM!
    If they cancelled before and the bill was repealed (and being a NC resident, it's been clear no quick repeal was in the works, despite a pretty loud public outrcry), rescheduling should not have been too difficult, I think. Bands cancel for all types of reasons all the time, usually due to a last minute emergency, but still.

    Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

    I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

    So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

    Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).
    I'd think it was more of the angle "our lawyers manipulate the emergency cancelation clause in the contract with the arena so we don't have to pay them. That way the owners of PNC Arena who still need to compensate staff or have a labor riot get hit hard. Then they walk down the street and lobby the legislators along with the hotels, food and beverage and other industries to overturn the legislation"
    I'm not sure about this.

    I'm thinking the letter they issued summarizing their intent disqualified them from cancelling the show based on emergency. I guarantee social conscience is not a qualifier.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JimmyV said:

    If we're taking Eddie at his word I think we already know. For a while they thought they could play the show and make some donations, but as it drew closer the band decided it couldn't go through with that. I'm fine with accepting that as the explanation but will always believe the indecisiveness impacted fans unnecessarily.

    I'm hoping this is actually the case.

    And I agree that their timing was terrible for fans. This was handled very poorly no matter which way you look at it.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ1973
    PJ1973 Winston-Salem, NC Posts: 421
    jakescarlett1 said:

    Do you know the law that was passed? How it was passed and why? I'm a NC resident, and I'm aware the law will be repealed during the next mini session of the legislation in 6 weeks/I believe that's when it is. Just wondering if others outside NC really know? Apparently PJ didn't know the amount of pressure the government is under already for the deception they caused with this pill passage. (every heavy hitting educational system/UNC and Duke to name a few, corporation, political group/legislation, Labor groups, textile group, technology group has voiced their displeasure and want to over turn this law. It'll happen in 6 weeks).

    No, I don't think people know all this. I think all that many people know is that we're in the south and this is typical southern behavior. It's not well known that there was no time to fight this bill before passing because it was written, introduced, and voted on in less than 24 hours. It is not well known that NC businesses and voters have been fighting and protesting this bill for a solid month now. I am not so optimistic now that it will be gone next month - the supporters of this bill are going to dig in deep now that they can rally their base into thinking the main opposition is liberal entertainment. I think this'll be a November issue.
  • Wma31394
    Wma31394 Posts: 3,045
    Bad move by the band..some inner circle suit was pushing this one I bet..
    "Going where the water tastes like wine!"
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    PJ1973 said:

    jakescarlett1 said:

    Do you know the law that was passed? How it was passed and why? I'm a NC resident, and I'm aware the law will be repealed during the next mini session of the legislation in 6 weeks/I believe that's when it is. Just wondering if others outside NC really know? Apparently PJ didn't know the amount of pressure the government is under already for the deception they caused with this pill passage. (every heavy hitting educational system/UNC and Duke to name a few, corporation, political group/legislation, Labor groups, textile group, technology group has voiced their displeasure and want to over turn this law. It'll happen in 6 weeks).

    I am not so optimistic now that it will be gone next month - the supporters of this bill are going to dig in deep now that they can rally their base into thinking the main opposition is liberal entertainment. I think this'll be a November issue.
    exactly... the conservatives in north carolina that support this law LOVE the fact that people like Bruce Springsteen & Pearl Jam are cancelling... it plays right into the narrative you describe...they already think Clooney runs the country secretly lol

  • adamg5
    adamg5 Posts: 811
    PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

    PJForceofNature said:

    adamg5 said:

    This is thread pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. I really hope the law changes because it's BS, but PJ really screwed a lot of fans by waiting so long to cancel IMHO. I don't get it and I totally understand how the cancellation, ruined the Hampton show for some. I do not feel I'm quite ready to have fun at a show yet knowing so many fans got the rug pulled out from underneath them....

    I feel the same way. I was so looking forward to the Philly 1 show, but now my enthusiasm has dimmed due to how sorry I am feeling for the fans who were only given 2 days notice about the Raleigh cancellation.
    Go to Lost Dogs and sell your tix.
    FV of course.
    Someone will be very happy and will bring it to the show.
    Who said the ones at the moment feel dimmed because so many fans lost time, money, etc won't still bring it when the time comes?
    That's they way a lot of us feel and others don't think it ain't no big deal that others lost out. I for one didn't buy tix to the show, take time off work, plan a schedule for someone to watch my kids while I'm out of my home state, lose money on a hotel. But a lot of people did and it's brought down moral.

    If we decide to sell our tix to upcoming shows its up to the ones who purchased them with their hard earned money.
  • Red Mosquito
    Red Mosquito Charlotte, NC Posts: 77
    Just echoing the sentiment that announcing it hours before Hampton was a complete buzzkill for that show. Went from the highest high tailgating at 5pm to the lowest low at 5:01pm. I was never able to rally and get into the show because of it. The timing of the announcement was a complete punch to the gut for those of us on the road.

    My entire vacation this week has a giant hole in it. Again, I wouldn't have cared if I had known this a week or two ago.
  • Better Dan
    Better Dan Posts: 5,684
    PJForceofNature said:

    adamg5 said:

    This is thread pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. I really hope the law changes because it's BS, but PJ really screwed a lot of fans by waiting so long to cancel IMHO. I don't get it and I totally understand how the cancellation, ruined the Hampton show for some. I do not feel I'm quite ready to have fun at a show yet knowing so many fans got the rug pulled out from underneath them....

    I feel the same way. I was so looking forward to the Philly 1 show, but now my enthusiasm has dimmed due to how sorry I am feeling for the fans who were only given 2 days notice about the Raleigh cancellation.
    I'm one of those fans and we'll get over it. Go to Philly 1 and have a blast. I am going to Columbia tomorrow and plan to do the same!
    2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
  • High Fidelity 2000
    High Fidelity 2000 New Mexico USA Posts: 4,439
    Tim Simmons said:

    Maybe there is a clause in the contract that made them to? It's weird Bruce did the same thing. I don't think it's as clear cut as them just doing what Bruce did.

    I promise there is not a "if going to cancel in the name of protest, you must wait until 48 hours before scheduled event to do so" clause in any venue contract.
    ABQ 93, Las Cruces 95, ABQ 98, Bridge School 10/30/99, Lubbock 00, ABQ 00, Denver 03, State College 03, San Diego 03, Vegas 03, PHX 03, D.C. 03, Camden 7/5/03, NYC 7/8/03 + 7/9/03, Vegas 06, San Francisco 7/15/06 + 7/16/06 + 7/18/06, Kansas City 10, [EV:ABQ 11/6/12], Chicago 13, PHX 13, Denver 14--PJ24!, Telluride 16, Chicago 8/20/16, Chicago 8/18/18, Phoenix 22, Denver 22, Vegas 5/16/24

    New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
  • High Fidelity 2000
    High Fidelity 2000 New Mexico USA Posts: 4,439
    my2hands said:

    Seriously, why did you wait so long?

    The timing of the announcement could not have been worse. The debate has been brewing for weeks since Bruce made his decision and could have easily been made/announced earlier. If announced earlier I'm sure 99% of the fan base would gladly support the cancelation, as it is a very just cause and clearly worthy of support. But by cancelling at the 11th hour you threw some of your diehard fanbase right under the bus with total disregard, creating strife and conflict as opposed to uniting us all on this issue. Not to mention you released the announcement 30 minutes before the doors opened to Hampton, destroying a lot of peoples positive energy for that show? It makes zero sense to wait so long and announce at that time

    The boycott is not necessarily a mistake, like i said its a great cause, but the last minute timing was a brutally bad decision that seemed to be made without factoring in your dedicated traveling fan base

    I feel bad for everyone out there that got stuck with flights, hotel reservations, rental cars, vacation days, family arrangements, etc... maybe a little more consideration for them next time you want to make a last minute decision

    The timing, not the cancelation, is the issue I have

    I agree with everything you said. The cause is good, the way it was done is not.

    It makes me wonder if the band even realizes what travel schedules are like for people. They've had their 5 star hotels booked for them and private travel for years. They maybe don't realize there are things like "non-refundable reservations" that come down to a day or two notice or no notice at all, they're just non refundable and already paid.
    ABQ 93, Las Cruces 95, ABQ 98, Bridge School 10/30/99, Lubbock 00, ABQ 00, Denver 03, State College 03, San Diego 03, Vegas 03, PHX 03, D.C. 03, Camden 7/5/03, NYC 7/8/03 + 7/9/03, Vegas 06, San Francisco 7/15/06 + 7/16/06 + 7/18/06, Kansas City 10, [EV:ABQ 11/6/12], Chicago 13, PHX 13, Denver 14--PJ24!, Telluride 16, Chicago 8/20/16, Chicago 8/18/18, Phoenix 22, Denver 22, Vegas 5/16/24

    New Mexico Pearl Jam Fans (New Mexico, USA) on Facebook!
  • Lifted
    Lifted Posts: 1,836
    I feel bad for people that had plans for nc, and i agree the timing could've been better. But did anyone think they were actually going to play the show with the law still on the books? I didn't. Especially for those who planned the trip late...a bit of a gamble if you ask me.

    If you let it ruin your time at a show you were at, or you let it ruin the tour, that's too bad. Especially if you werent even directly affected by the cancelation. I get the disappointment, but this isnt the end of the world. And like i said, having the idea that this show was imminent was optimistic at best.
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,613
    Lifted said:

    I feel bad for people that had plans for nc, and i agree the timing could've been better. But did anyone think they were actually going to play the show with the law still on the books? I didn't. Especially for those who planned the trip late...a bit of a gamble if you ask me.

    If you let it ruin your time at a show you were at, or you let it ruin the tour, that's too bad. Especially if you werent even directly affected by the cancelation. I get the disappointment, but this isnt the end of the world. And like i said, having the idea that this show was imminent was optimistic at best.

    When Bruce cancelled on April 8th I figured there was no chance Pearl Jam would play. Then ten days went by without a word from the band and I figured they would. According to Eddie the band themselves thought they were going to play for awhile.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."

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