Why the hell did you wait so long to cancel?

my2hands

Seriously, why did you wait so long?

The timing of the announcement could not have been worse. The debate has been brewing for weeks since Bruce made his decision and could have easily been made/announced earlier. If announced earlier I'm sure 99% of the fan base would gladly support the cancelation, as it is a very just cause and clearly worthy of support. But by cancelling at the 11th hour you threw some of your diehard fanbase right under the bus with total disregard, creating strife and conflict as opposed to uniting us all on this issue. Not to mention you released the announcement 30 minutes before the doors opened to Hampton, destroying a lot of peoples positive energy for that show? It makes zero sense to wait so long and announce at that time

The boycott is not necessarily a mistake, like i said its a great cause, but the last minute timing was a brutally bad decision that seemed to be made without factoring in your dedicated traveling fan base

I feel bad for everyone out there that got stuck with flights, hotel reservations, rental cars, vacation days, family arrangements, etc... maybe a little more consideration for them next time you want to make a last minute decision

The timing, not the cancelation, is the issue I have

on2legs

Definitely needed another thread for this.

whofeelslikeadrank

on2legs said:

Definitely needed another thread for this.

my2hands

on2legs said:

Definitely needed another thread for this.

I felt so, because this is the main point to the fans actually affected by this last minute decision... it's not the boycott, it's the timing of the decision

Tim Simmons

Maybe there is a clause in the contract that made them to? It's weird Bruce did the same thing. I don't think it's as clear cut as them just doing what Bruce did.

pearldavidson

I'm pissed about the timing and I had zero invested into Raleigh!!!! It was a bull shit/slap in the face move.

walkunafraid

Maybe they were holding out hope that the state would give in to mounting national pressure and repeal the law in time for the show to go on as planned. Perhaps they actually really wanted to play and only canceled when it was clear that the state wasn't going to act, you know?

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

whofeelslikeadrank

walkunafraid said:

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

thank you very much for bringing up a side of the issue that is rarely visited. had it been the other way around... would been the same thing. a bunch of posts pissing and moaning about, "why did you cancel and then change your mind??" it's a lose-lose for everyone involved. i have said the same thing a thousand times before... be glad we have a band that keeps show ticket prices reasonable, and still wow us on a nightly basis. did i actually read some folks bitching about a show that was 3+ hours, just because it wasn't a philly show? yea, sad.

my2hands

walkunafraid said:

Maybe they were holding out hope that the state would give in to mounting national pressure and repeal the law in time for the show to go on as planned. Perhaps they actually really wanted to play and only canceled when it was clear that the state wasn't going to act, you know?

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

I understand... but 48 hours? They could have announced last week, even Friday? Or announced if the bill still stood as law by 4/18 (or whenever) that they would cancel... they didn't make a peep while this debate raged for weeks and just when everyone assumed it was safe, BAM!

hsohi

Contractual law my friends.

Weston1283

I lost $$ on flights to Raleigh, but like you said, I think the thing that made me the most mad about the timing was the fact that it completely deflated me of enthusiasm for the Hampton show. I got my white whale song Habit and the setlist was great, but it was probably the least fun I ever had at a PJ show

bootlegger10

hsohi said:

Contractual law my friends.

What part of the contract? Other bands have canceled much further in advance.

This is a good thread and in my mind is the one question that we deserve an answer too. I think this thread should be bumped daily until we get an answer from the business we are customers of.

I would also like to know the economic penalties PJ had to pay to cancel. But all they need to do is dedicate another day on the next tour to recoup the fees so I don't give them much credit in that respect.

bootlegger10

Here's to the first bump of what I expect will be many unanswered bumps.

JimmyV

If there is a good answer to this question I haven't heard it yet.

jeffwalsh

bootlegger10 said:

What part of the contract? Other bands have canceled much further in advance.

Bands in clubs/theaters have canceled in advance. All arena shows have been canceled 48 hours in advance. I said it was some contractual issue all along. Not sure we'll ever know the why's behind it, though.

camsjam

Maybe if cancelled less than 48 hours there would be high cancellation fees payable to the arena and the band was struggling with a decision until the last minute. Can't imagine they would have had to pay more if cancelling a week or two out. It's a done deal and I don't know what reasons are going to make the angrier fans understand. I rejoined 10c recently after reading as a guest for a time. Pearl Jam aside I thought this was such a positive community filled with intelligent, kind, funny and helpful people. Much different than most forums you see on the Internet. Okay some of you are a hot mess...but mostly in a good way. Life throws shit around all the time. I hate to see it make everyone bitter. Peace

PJ1973

Weston1283 said:

I lost $$ on flights to Raleigh, but like you said, I think the thing that made me the most mad about the timing was the fact that it completely deflated me of enthusiasm for the Hampton show. I got my white whale song Habit and the setlist was great, but it was probably the least fun I ever had at a PJ show

This - I had just returned to the GA line after picking up my tickets with so much excitement and saw everyone looking down at their phones trying to readjust plans. The energy picked up when the show started (good for starting with a fast song) but it was obviously on the back of everyone's mind.

PJ1973

my2hands said:

walkunafraid said:

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

I understand... but 48 hours? They could have announced last week, even Friday? Or announced if the bill still stood as law by 4/18 (or whenever) that they would cancel... they didn't make a peep while this debate raged for weeks and just when everyone assumed it was safe, BAM!

If they cancelled before and the bill was repealed (and being a NC resident, it's been clear no quick repeal was in the works, despite a pretty loud public outrcry), rescheduling should not have been too difficult, I think. Bands cancel for all types of reasons all the time, usually due to a last minute emergency, but still.

Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

bootlegger10

camsjam said:

Maybe if cancelled less than 48 hours there would be high cancellation fees payable to the arena and the band was struggling with a decision until the last minute. Can't imagine they would have had to pay more if cancelling a week or two out. It's a done deal and I don't know what reasons are going to make the angrier fans understand. I rejoined 10c recently after reading as a guest for a time. Pearl Jam aside I thought this was such a positive community filled with intelligent, kind, funny and helpful people. Much different than most forums you see on the Internet. Okay some of you are a hot mess...but mostly in a good way. Life throws shit around all the time. I hate to see it make everyone bitter. Peace

I just want an acknowledgement from the band that their indecision and delay cost people a lot more money and time than it should of. I want them to acknowledge they are business and screwed over their customers for their personal whims.

Vedd Hedd

bootlegger10 said:

camsjam said:

Maybe if cancelled less than 48 hours there would be high cancellation fees payable to the arena and the band was struggling with a decision until the last minute. Can't imagine they would have had to pay more if cancelling a week or two out. It's a done deal and I don't know what reasons are going to make the angrier fans understand. I rejoined 10c recently after reading as a guest for a time. Pearl Jam aside I thought this was such a positive community filled with intelligent, kind, funny and helpful people. Much different than most forums you see on the Internet. Okay some of you are a hot mess...but mostly in a good way. Life throws shit around all the time. I hate to see it make everyone bitter. Peace

I just want an acknowledgement from the band that their indecision and delay cost people a lot more money and time than it should of. I want them to acknowledge they are business and screwed over their customers for their personal whims.

Every time i am about to agree with you....you say something that makes me not agree with you.

I would hardly call this a personal whim.

You can hate the decision, and you can disagree with their approach to the protest. You can endorse HB2 if thats your thing, too. But do you really feel this is a personal whim?

Do you really think they intentionally set out to hurt their own fans?

The level of weirdness is pretty thick here.

my2hands

Nobody questions the righteousness of the cause, I fully support it, as I'm sure most of us do.... because of that, I don't see a need to debate it here

The issue at hand is the timing of the decision/announcement and it's impact on their fans

The staff person & police officer running the 10c ticket line were asking everybody where they were from and getting a kick out of it... people literally were from EVERYWHERE, including international travelers... everyone I talked to was from somewhere else... I understand that a majority of an arena for any given PJ concert is a majority of locals, but this band clearly has a very healthy traveling fan base...

these are the people camping out overnight for GA... these are the people waiting for hours in the merch line... these are the people using vacation days and discretionary income to see their favorite band... year after year... these folks really got screwed by this timing

It's not the end of the world, and hopefully the effort helps this movement succeed in a quick and sensible fashion... Pearl Jam is definitely on the right side of history on this issue... I just hope their fans, specifically those that like to travel, were strongly considered before making a decision/announcement so late in the game

Thirty Bills Unpaid

PJ1973 said:

my2hands said:

walkunafraid said:

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

I understand... but 48 hours? They could have announced last week, even Friday? Or announced if the bill still stood as law by 4/18 (or whenever) that they would cancel... they didn't make a peep while this debate raged for weeks and just when everyone assumed it was safe, BAM!

If they cancelled before and the bill was repealed (and being a NC resident, it's been clear no quick repeal was in the works, despite a pretty loud public outrcry), rescheduling should not have been too difficult, I think. Bands cancel for all types of reasons all the time, usually due to a last minute emergency, but still.

Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).

Vedd Hedd

My2hands, i agree that the timing of the announcement is a bit troubling. As i have said in other posts, thats a legit complaint.

I am just befuddled about other comments i have been seeing....i mean....call it what you will but its not a whim.

serpent boy

my2hands said:

Nobody questions the righteousness of the cause, I fully support it, as I'm sure most of us do.... because of that, I don't see a need to debate it here

The issue at hand is the timing of the decision/announcement and it's impact on their fans

The staff person & police officer running the 10c ticket line were asking everybody where they were from and getting a kick out of it... people literally were from EVERYWHERE, including international travelers... everyone I talked to was from somewhere else... I understand that a majority of an arena for any given PJ concert is a majority of locals, but this band clearly has a very healthy traveling fan base...

these are the people camping out overnight for GA... these are the people waiting for hours in the merch line... these are the people using vacation days and discretionary income to see their favorite band... year after year... these folks really got screwed by this timing

It's not the end of the world, and hopefully the effort helps this movement succeed in a quick and sensible fashion... Pearl Jam is definitely on the right side of history on this issue... I just hope their fans, specifically those that like to travel, were considered strongly before making a decision/announcementso late in the game

This needs to be emphasized. I see a lot of people assuming that any opposition to Pearl Jam's decision is about the issue. It's not. It's the timing.

Announcing a cancellation 2 hours BEFORE Hampton was not the right move. It resulted in a poor show.

Vedd Hedd

serpent boy said:

my2hands said:

Nobody questions the righteousness of the cause, I fully support it, as I'm sure most of us do.... because of that, I don't see a need to debate it here

The issue at hand is the timing of the decision/announcement and it's impact on their fans

The staff person & police officer running the 10c ticket line were asking everybody where they were from and getting a kick out of it... people literally were from EVERYWHERE, including international travelers... everyone I talked to was from somewhere else... I understand that a majority of an arena for any given PJ concert is a majority of locals, but this band clearly has a very healthy traveling fan base...

these are the people camping out overnight for GA... these are the people waiting for hours in the merch line... these are the people using vacation days and discretionary income to see their favorite band... year after year... these folks really got screwed by this timing

It's not the end of the world, and hopefully the effort helps this movement succeed in a quick and sensible fashion... Pearl Jam is definitely on the right side of history on this issue... I just hope their fans, specifically those that like to travel, were considered strongly before making a decision/announcementso late in the game

This needs to be emphasized. I see a lot of people assuming that any opposition to Pearl Jam's decision is about the issue. It's not. It's the timing.

Announcing a cancellation 2 hours BEFORE Hampton was not the right move. It resulted in a poor show.

There are some upset about the timing.

There are some upset about the cause.

There are some that are cancelling their memberships and no longer supporting the band based on the timing.

bootlegger10

Vedd Hedd said:

bootlegger10 said:

camsjam said:

Maybe if cancelled less than 48 hours there would be high cancellation fees payable to the arena and the band was struggling with a decision until the last minute. Can't imagine they would have had to pay more if cancelling a week or two out. It's a done deal and I don't know what reasons are going to make the angrier fans understand. I rejoined 10c recently after reading as a guest for a time. Pearl Jam aside I thought this was such a positive community filled with intelligent, kind, funny and helpful people. Much different than most forums you see on the Internet. Okay some of you are a hot mess...but mostly in a good way. Life throws shit around all the time. I hate to see it make everyone bitter. Peace

I just want an acknowledgement from the band that their indecision and delay cost people a lot more money and time than it should of. I want them to acknowledge they are business and screwed over their customers for their personal whims.

Every time i am about to agree with you....you say something that makes me not agree with you.

I would hardly call this a personal whim.

You can hate the decision, and you can disagree with their approach to the protest. You can endorse HB2 if thats your thing, too. But do you really feel this is a personal whim?

Do you really think they intentionally set out to hurt their own fans?

The level of weirdness is pretty thick here.

I do believe it is a personal whim. Let me preface this by saying I am not for the law. But I believe it is a personal whim for the following reasons:

1) Pearl Jam's members are not politicians. If they would like to be then they should organize political fundraisers/rallies and not for-profit concerts.

2) Pearl Jam is a rock band. They invited 15,000 people to their concert. They canceled two days out and put their views ahead of the 15,000 people they invited previously. If that is not a personal whim I don't know what is.

3) They did not place the impact to their fans of any importance in their decision making because if they had they would have decided a week ago. They decided they would get to the decision when they felt like it a few days ago. Again, a decision based on personal whim and their feelings at the time. This is fact because it is what happened. There is no other explanation unless they reply to this thread.

4) They never would have canceled if Bruce had played his show. So, again, a decision based on personal whim and not necessarily this deep, compelling sense of fairness. I truly will forever believe that deep down Ed didn't want to let Bruce down.

5) To repeat, they don't know whether they are a business or a lobbying entity. Most days they wake up ready to sell tickets and merch for profit, and then a few days ago they decided, what the hell, let's be lobbyists even though our business organized a concert a long time ago.

I think for future concerts they should breakeven and show no profit or loss, or donate all profits to political causes if they want to be lobbyists. If they want to be a business then they need to put their customers first and their personal political/social views second, or give their customers a say in what they do.

Vedd Hedd

Believing all this...why do care what they have to say then? Why bother?

According to you, they are money grabbers who have no regard for their fans and they only do what bruce springsteen does.

Are you done with them? If not....what on earth would possibly cause you to care about them again? Old records?

bootlegger10

Good question Vedd Hedd.

If I could get refunds for all remaining shows this year and travel costs I would cancel my remaining 10 shows. I skipped Columbia even though I had time off from work and a free place to stay for a few more days in Greenville only 2 hours away. I had GA tickets.

I don't believe the members of Pearl Jam are bad people or greedy, but I just think in this instance they made a brutal error in judgment and forgot their role and responsibility. Overall I respect Pearl Jam, but I don't rely on them to be my political/social boat captain like a LOT of people on here. I enjoy their music, I enjoy travel, I enjoy the friendships on the road, I love the posters/stickers. I just can't help but feel disrespected here and have no other outlet besides this board to make my point known because PJ is a large corporation and I am just one person. Me not going to a show is a drop in the bucket.

Vedd Hedd

bootlegger10 said:

Good question Vedd Hedd.

If I could get refunds for all remaining shows this year and travel costs I would cancel my remaining 10 shows. I skipped Columbia even though I had time off from work and a free place to stay for a few more days in Greenville only 2 hours away. I had GA tickets.

I don't believe the members of Pearl Jam are bad people or greedy, but I just think in this instance they made a brutal error in judgment and forgot their role and responsibility. Overall I respect Pearl Jam, but I don't rely on them to be my political/social boat captain like a LOT of people on here. I enjoy their music, I enjoy travel, I enjoy the friendships on the road, I love the posters/stickers. I just can't help but feel disrespected here and have no other outlet besides this board to make my point known because PJ is a large corporation and I am just one person. Me not going to a show is a drop in the bucket.

Fair enough.

adamg5

This is thread pretty much sums up exactly how I feel. I really hope the law changes because it's BS, but PJ really screwed a lot of fans by waiting so long to cancel IMHO. I don't get it and I totally understand how the cancellation, ruined the Hampton show for some. I do not feel I'm quite ready to have fun at a show yet knowing so many fans got the rug pulled out from underneath them....

rvapete

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

PJ1973 said:

my2hands said:

walkunafraid said:

How do you think folks here would have acted if the band had canceled two weeks ago and the bill had been repealed prior to the scheduled show date?

I understand... but 48 hours? They could have announced last week, even Friday? Or announced if the bill still stood as law by 4/18 (or whenever) that they would cancel... they didn't make a peep while this debate raged for weeks and just when everyone assumed it was safe, BAM!

If they cancelled before and the bill was repealed (and being a NC resident, it's been clear no quick repeal was in the works, despite a pretty loud public outrcry), rescheduling should not have been too difficult, I think. Bands cancel for all types of reasons all the time, usually due to a last minute emergency, but still.

Regarding contractual issues - I don't know specific terms of PNC Arena contracts, but I wonder if the fines are higher if you cancel outside of 48 hours rather than within. That would ensure a band would be locked in to play and that the only reason to cancel would have to be a serious emergency or such. The logic being that an event would not cancel on their fans at the last minute unless they really needed to.

I have no idea- I'm just speculating here. It is odd that Bruce and PJ were 48 hours out, but other smaller venues have been cancelled further ahead of time.

So PJ wanted to save as much money as they might? Cancelling 48 hrs beforehand in a window where they would suffer the least financial strain?

Is this what you are speculating? Because if it was... that would make this move a whole other ordeal (placing the financial burden on fans as opposed to themselves when it was their decision).

I'd think it was more of the angle "our lawyers manipulate the emergency cancelation clause in the contract with the arena so we don't have to pay them. That way the owners of PNC Arena who still need to compensate staff or have a labor riot get hit hard. Then they walk down the street and lobby the legislators along with the hotels, food and beverage and other industries to overturn the legislation"