Paris Attacks

PJfanwillneverleave1 · November 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

show previous quotes
PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

dignin said:
This was pretty heartwarming

A father and son have the most precious conversation during an interview by french media at the scene of the Bataclan attacks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_5QlLQQH8

"Pour protege"

I truly hope no one denigrates this, what with the mention of flowers and all. Consider the sentiment in its simplicity.
Clearly this child has been brought up with zero hate or misguiding towards fellow people.
Can't say the same of the children born who became the people responsible for these attacks.
People become radicalized without, or even in spite of, parental influence.

.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · November 2015

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

show previous quotes
HughFreakingDillon said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

dignin said:
This was pretty heartwarming

A father and son have the most precious conversation during an interview by french media at the scene of the Bataclan attacks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_5QlLQQH8

"Pour protege"

I truly hope no one denigrates this, what with the mention of flowers and all. Consider the sentiment in its simplicity.
Clearly this child has been brought up with zero hate or misguiding towards fellow people.
Can't say the same of the children born who became the people responsible for these attacks.
People become radicalized without, or even in spite of, parental influence.

To a degree yes.
The radicals in question have been influenced since conception.

I don't think you can definitively state this. There are many factors linked to developing into a brainwashed, psychopathic, religious fanatic.

PJfanwillneverleave1 · November 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes
PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

hedonist said:

dignin said:
This was pretty heartwarming

A father and son have the most precious conversation during an interview by french media at the scene of the Bataclan attacks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb_5QlLQQH8

"Pour protege"

I truly hope no one denigrates this, what with the mention of flowers and all. Consider the sentiment in its simplicity.
Clearly this child has been brought up with zero hate or misguiding towards fellow people.
Can't say the same of the children born who became the people responsible for these attacks.
People become radicalized without, or even in spite of, parental influence.

To a degree yes.
The radicals in question have been influenced since conception.
I don't think you can definitively state this. There are many factors linked to developing into a brainwashed, psychopathic, religious fanatic.

Really?
Religious fanatic says it all.

BS44325 · November 2015

Kat said:
That would definitely be hysteria...kind of like thinking ALL refugees are ISIS...and some people are acting like they are. I'm having trouble containing my anger about the reaction to this tragic event by some of our so-called leaders and those who aspire to lead us. It's embarrassing, to say the least. Let me put it this way. I ain't afraid of no ghosts...and I'm certainly not afraid of refugees. Some people need a backbone. We're America and we can handle this situation without fear-mongering. I see great strength in the French as they handle this. Solidarity.

No one is acting like "all refugees are ISIS". That is so disingenuous. Read the following link

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322960/The-Syrian-passports-terror-EIGHT-migrants-got-Europe-papers-stadium-suicide-bomber.html

The system for verifying refugees is clearly broken. It is completely reasonable to insist upon knowing who is an actual refugee and who isn't. That is not "fear-mongering" it is responsible governance.

BS44325 · November 2015

callen said:
"Drilling for fear makes the job simple."

Republicans are sooo happy this fell into their laps.

Imagine saying Syrian Christians can come but not Syrian Muslims. Oh boy. Doesn't seem to be all constitutional now does it.

For you to say "Republicans are sooo happy about this" is beneath contempt but I guess not unexpected. Conservatives are always enemy number 1 on the AMT.

BS44325 · November 2015

Drowned Out said:

show previous quotes
BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless.
Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis.
Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.

BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?

(Pause and think)

This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.

BS44325 · November 2015

mickeyrat said:

show previous quotes
BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Bold accusations to make with absolutely no evidence.
Bataclan owned by jewish brothers and protested against and intimidated by BDS for years. Band who just played Israel. Complete coincedence.
and the stadium bombings attempted were jsut to throw us off the trail. got it.
ISIS knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time. The Hebdo murderers also attacked a kosher market. They can attack multiple of targets for a variety of reasons. Watching you proud BDS people trying to deny the perpetrators of violence within your community is absolutely breathtaking.
Which brand of tin foil do you prefer?

I guess the same kind of tin foil that the French security services prefer:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/paris-terror-attacks-isis-syria/index.html

The key quote:

"One theory French investigators are pursuing is whether the suicide attacks on the Stade de France were simply a diversion designed to draw police and give the other attackers room to carry out their shootings on restaurants and at the Bataclan concert hall. No conclusions have been made."

Throw up some diversions to hit the Bataclan.

Hmmmm

PJfanwillneverleave1 · November 2015

BS44325 said:

show previous quotes
mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Bold accusations to make with absolutely no evidence.
Bataclan owned by jewish brothers and protested against and intimidated by BDS for years. Band who just played Israel. Complete coincedence.
and the stadium bombings attempted were jsut to throw us off the trail. got it.
ISIS knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time. The Hebdo murderers also attacked a kosher market. They can attack multiple of targets for a variety of reasons. Watching you proud BDS people trying to deny the perpetrators of violence within your community is absolutely breathtaking.
Which brand of tin foil do you prefer?
I guess the same kind of tin foil that the French security services prefer:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/paris-terror-attacks-isis-syria/index.html

The key quote:

"One theory French investigators are pursuing is whether the suicide attacks on the Stade de France were simply a diversion designed to draw police and give the other attackers room to carry out their shootings on restaurants and at the Bataclan concert hall. No conclusions have been made."

Throw up some diversions to hit the Bataclan.

Hmmmm

That is a hmmm
I will say this though,
Does the bacon in your avatar spell PJ?
I have wanted to ask this for awhile, or is it just me hallucinating.

BS44325 · November 2015

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

show previous quotes
BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Bold accusations to make with absolutely no evidence.
Bataclan owned by jewish brothers and protested against and intimidated by BDS for years. Band who just played Israel. Complete coincedence.
and the stadium bombings attempted were jsut to throw us off the trail. got it.
ISIS knows how to walk and chew gum at the same time. The Hebdo murderers also attacked a kosher market. They can attack multiple of targets for a variety of reasons. Watching you proud BDS people trying to deny the perpetrators of violence within your community is absolutely breathtaking.
Which brand of tin foil do you prefer?
I guess the same kind of tin foil that the French security services prefer:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/17/politics/paris-terror-attacks-isis-syria/index.html

The key quote:

"One theory French investigators are pursuing is whether the suicide attacks on the Stade de France were simply a diversion designed to draw police and give the other attackers room to carry out their shootings on restaurants and at the Bataclan concert hall. No conclusions have been made."

Throw up some diversions to hit the Bataclan.

Hmmmm
That is a hmmm
I will say this though,
Does the bacon in your avatar spell PJ?
I have wanted to ask this for awhile, or is it just me hallucinating.

Ha...yes. That was taken at breakfast between the the Vancouver and Seattle shows a couple years back. I was deep into Breaking Bad at the point and was spelling many things with bacon.

hedonist · November 2015

Wish I could play the asshole-role and shout "stay on topic!"

Been seeing reports of more happening in Paris, police shot. From CNN but not sure of its accuracy at this point.

benjs · November 2015

BS44325 said:

show previous quotes
Drowned Out said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless.
Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis.
Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?

(Pause and think)

This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.

Roger Waters aside (because while I find him insensitive, I don't find him to be spewing anti-Jewish rhetoric as many claim), I have an honest question. If this aggression was aimed at Jews or supporters of Israel, why would IS not admit to this? Until now, they've been very clear about their mandate and what they feel is wrong to justify their expansionist and murderous group. Why, all of a sudden, would they obfuscate that mandate on the topic of Israel? That seems out of character for such a candid group.

BS44325 · November 2015

benjs said:

show previous quotes
BS44325 said:

Drowned Out said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless.
Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis.
Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?

(Pause and think)

This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.
Roger Waters aside (because while I find him insensitive, I don't find him to be spewing anti-Jewish rhetoric as many claim), I have an honest question. If this aggression was aimed at Jews or supporters of Israel, why would IS not admit to this? Until now, they've been very clear about their mandate and what they feel is wrong to justify their expansionist and murderous group. Why, all of a sudden, would they obfuscate that mandate on the topic of Israel? That seems out of character for such a candid group.

First...I don't want anyone to think that for a second I believe Roger Waters condones this or believes in violent action whatsoever. He has his own criticism which I obviously disagree with but I absolutely believe him to be a pacifist on this subject.

As far as your main question there can be two possible answers. If it was in fact an ISIS ordered attack (and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise at the moment) a successful attack on a known "Zionist" establishment serves a recruitmant tool. It is awful to say but many jihadist are inspired by and attracted to those who are able to defeat and strike at Israel. This attack would then serve the general mandate of establishing a greater caliphate. The second possible answer is that there is a very slight possibility that the attack was not actually conducted by ISIS proper. Again I have no evidence for this but their are so many radical islamic offshoots of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Ansar Al Islam, etc that we may never know what the pure intent of the attack was. We have to remember that radical Islam does not just want to commit terror. It actually has a more profound goal of driving a wedge between muslims and some of the westernized countries they reside in. We must acknowledge the fact that while a majority of muslims do not condone violence many do consider "Zionist" entities as legitimate targets when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian issue. An attack on the Bataclan serves to drive this wedge regardless of which group actually committed the attack. The mandate proceeds apace either way.

rgambs · November 2015

BS44325 said:

show previous quotes
callen said:
"Drilling for fear makes the job simple."

Republicans are sooo happy this fell into their laps.

Imagine saying Syrian Christians can come but not Syrian Muslims. Oh boy. Doesn't seem to be all constitutional now does it.
For you to say "Republicans are sooo happy about this" is beneath contempt but I guess not unexpected. Conservatives are always enemy number 1 on the AMT.

Have you been paying attention to the things they have been saying? How could you see them salivating and tripping over themselves to capitalize on this politically and not think they are happy about it?

MayDay10 · November 2015

I'm sure on some level hillary or her staff is happy too. She has the foreign relations experience, sat there when they killed bin laden... stepped out before isis really became a big thing.... and her "top" opponents, trump, carson, and Rubio have nothing.
They are all looking for ways to spin this into their favor. I'm sure trump is probably already beating the fear card with the refugees.

Remember what Vietnow told us. Fear is your only god.

JWPearl · November 2015

trump can always use God as a fear factor if he wishes im sure it works for some.....

callen · November 2015

BS44325 said:

show previous quotes
callen said:
"Drilling for fear makes the job simple."

Republicans are sooo happy this fell into their laps.

Imagine saying Syrian Christians can come but not Syrian Muslims. Oh boy. Doesn't seem to be all constitutional now does it.
For you to say "Republicans are sooo happy about this" is beneath contempt but I guess not unexpected. Conservatives are always enemy number 1 on the AMT.

So republican candidates didn't start drooling? Yes they did.

benjs · November 2015

BS44325 said:

show previous quotes
benjs said:

BS44325 said:

Drowned Out said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

rgambs said:
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/11/16/3722838/all-paris-attackers-identified-so-far-are-european-nationals-according-to-top-eu-official/
Yeah, that passport was a fake

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-stadium-attacker-entered-europe-via-greece-1447698583

That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?

As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.

Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless.
Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis.
Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?

(Pause and think)

This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.
Roger Waters aside (because while I find him insensitive, I don't find him to be spewing anti-Jewish rhetoric as many claim), I have an honest question. If this aggression was aimed at Jews or supporters of Israel, why would IS not admit to this? Until now, they've been very clear about their mandate and what they feel is wrong to justify their expansionist and murderous group. Why, all of a sudden, would they obfuscate that mandate on the topic of Israel? That seems out of character for such a candid group.
First...I don't want anyone to think that for a second I believe Roger Waters condones this or believes in violent action whatsoever. He has his own criticism which I obviously disagree with but I absolutely believe him to be a pacifist on this subject.

As far as your main question there can be two possible answers. If it was in fact an ISIS ordered attack (and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise at the moment) a successful attack on a known "Zionist" establishment serves a recruitmant tool. It is awful to say but many jihadist are inspired by and attracted to those who are able to defeat and strike at Israel. This attack would then serve the general mandate of establishing a greater caliphate. The second possible answer is that there is a very slight possibility that the attack was not actually conducted by ISIS proper. Again I have no evidence for this but their are so many radical islamic offshoots of ISIS, Al Qaeda, Ansar Al Islam, etc that we may never know what the pure intent of the attack was. We have to remember that radical Islam does not just want to commit terror. It actually has a more profound goal of driving a wedge between muslims and some of the westernized countries they reside in. We must acknowledge the fact that while a majority of muslims do not condone violence many do consider "Zionist" entities as legitimate targets when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian issue. An attack on the Bataclan serves to drive this wedge regardless of which group actually committed the attack. The mandate proceeds apace either way.

I understand your points (and actually agree with them), I just feel that it's significantly out of character for IS or a splinter cell to hide a motive: especially if it's in the interest of recruiting others. IS's public face has, since its inception, been proud, visible, and fearless. A subtle motive alluded to only by context is very un-IS.

We're both convinced we're following the evidence presented to gauge an MO, and we both yielded different conclusions. At the end of the day, however, undisputed remains the reprehensible actions of sub-humans. I'm not sure much else matters, and I'm not sure the world's actions will change regardless of which is deemed correct, or which actually is correct.

PP193448 · November 2015

Terrorism is not a Democratic vs Republican debate. WTF is wrong with some of you crazy Right wing and Left wing people. Where are the middle people? Why does common sense and morality not guide political parties to the middle? I would say that there needs to be a Repeublican and a Democratic combined Co-presidency because there is no 1 perfect candidate in either party!!!

callen · November 2015

PP193448 said:
Terrorism is not a Democratic vs Republican debate. WTF is wrong with some of you crazy Right wing and Left wing people. Where are the middle people? Why does common sense and morality not guide political parties to the middle? I would say that there needs to be a Repeublican and a Democratic combined Co-presidency because there is no 1 perfect candidate in either party!!!

Huh? So republican candidates and republican governors didn't stumble all over each other to make news capitalizing on fear? Denial.

PP193448 · November 2015

callen said:

show previous quotes
PP193448 said:
Terrorism is not a Democratic vs Republican debate. WTF is wrong with some of you crazy Right wing and Left wing people. Where are the middle people? Why does common sense and morality not guide political parties to the middle? I would say that there needs to be a Repeublican and a Democratic combined Co-presidency because there is no 1 perfect candidate in either party!!!
Huh? So republican candidates and republican governors didn't stumble all over each other to make news capitalizing on fear? Denial.

Yes they did. I am not arguing that. Just turn on Fox News and see that. But fear mongering is how some people win elections, especially less democratic ones... But it's extremely naive to not learn from world issues and act like everything is fine and we live in utopia... You must be a Democratic voter and believe socialism is the answer. Just keep creative big government, spending more taxes, and giving away money to welfare.
I would relate myself to being independent. I am not easily swayed by fear.
Back on track. Round up all the terrorists. Good for the French people.

Paris Attacks

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