I was just watching the news in our hotel room "house defies Obama and holts refugees" it's about time somebody pulled their heads out of their ass's and stood up to that clown to stop the flood of terrorism into our country, and more needs to be done.
Godfather.
another perfect example of the politics of fear working.
That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?
As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.
Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless. Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis. Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?
(Pause and think)
This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.
anti-semite anti-semite....there was a time this term had an affect on people. Now, anyone who has even a passing interest in the occupation brushes this off as if someone is being called a 'big meanie'. Your constant alarmist victim-baiting has completely killed all legit affect this claim once had. Well done. I am more than ok with Roger Waters sending Chris Cornell a letter stating why he shouldn't play Israel. In fact Id be surprised if he hadn't already sent him one and it just hasn't been publicized. It's a letter. It doesn't promote violence. The fact that he is playing Israel again is all over the internet - every israeli rag in the world trumpets every show booked in their country as if it's headline news....Besides, you just admitted yourself that Roger Waters is a pacifist and does not condone violent actions. So what are you getting at? Why are you asking if I'm ok with Waters sending Cornell a letter? Are you trying to tug at some heart strings (incite a fear based reaction) by saying BDS is making 'one of our own' a target? Sick. You're grasping at straws....using the murder of 129 innocents to further your cause....
Odd thing is that most of the Paris Islamic terrorists, according to reports, seemed to be addicts to drugs and alcohol.
Ban drugs and alcohol.
Islam would very much like that, which is why it is so odd.
It's really only odd if you think these people followed any kind of mainstream interpretation of islam. They don't - they weren't true believers of what the mass majority of muslims interpret their faith to mean, and what they deem to be acceptable behaviour.
my coworker is convinced this will be WW3. yeah, because fear mongering american media says so.
How do you respond to crap like that? I almost feel a civic duty to inform them of how stupid they are.
he said "they're already talking about it at G20". I said "yeah, maybe they are talking about how to contain the threat, but how do you go to war against an idea? it's not like it's confined to a geographical jursidiction, and no one went to war with Germany until they had millions of troops invading other countries. ISIS doesn't even have a miniscule fraction of that number, not to mention they are blowing themselves up in the process".
It's not like it's confined to a geographical jurisdiction... Someone please explain that to Obama... Cause he thinks they are contained... Somehow he needs to think outside the box sometimes...
The caliphate is contained geographically.
Highly doubt it was meant to reference the ideology, which is what I think you guys are referring to.
I hope so. There's no way to fight the ideology. Reform of Islamic culture would be needed. Stopping refugees will not stop the ideology, it just calms the mass hysteria of bringing terrorism into the US, regardless if it is truly possible with the vetting process.
oh? seems like a pretty broad statement. the attacks, and terrorist ideology, have nothing to do with islamic culture. I'm no fan of religion, but I like the scorn to be shared proportionately. No one ever talks about the culture of hate manifested in politics and ideology by bible belt christians and militant jews, who are often the biggest cheerleaders of war against muslim states. State terror that kills exponentially more people than any terrorist actions. These zealots use religious justification for murder in the exact same way islamic extremists do. The main difference being, the christian and jewish war-mongering extremists have armies of other people's kids to do their bidding for them (and governments who are willing to downplay the religious justifications for fear based ones), while the islamic extremists employ guerilla/psy-op tactics because they have no state military behind them....and if anyone thinks there are no elements of our governments/MIC (and those of our allies) exploiting these tactics to further their own causes, then you aren't paying attention.
---------------------------- Haven't seen anyone here mention yet that all of the attackers were Europeans. Guess we can stop conflating the refugee issue with terror, and get back to pinpointing blame on islam, right?
And jason - what did you mean with your latest shot at Russia? Always find your cold war throwback view of the world interesting....
Odd thing is that most of the Paris Islamic terrorists, according to reports, seemed to be addicts to drugs and alcohol.
Same with the guy who murdered the soldier on Parliament Hill (Canada) last year. He had no connection to ISIS......I wonder how connected to ISIS some of these Paris attackers were.
That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?
As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.
Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless. Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis. Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?
(Pause and think)
This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.
anti-semite anti-semite....there was a time this term had an affect on people. Now, anyone who has even a passing interest in the occupation brushes this off as if someone is being called a 'big meanie'. Your constant alarmist victim-baiting has completely killed all legit affect this claim once had. Well done. I am more than ok with Roger Waters sending Chris Cornell a letter stating why he shouldn't play Israel. In fact Id be surprised if he hadn't already sent him one and it just hasn't been publicized. It's a letter. It doesn't promote violence. The fact that he is playing Israel again is all over the internet - every israeli rag in the world trumpets every show booked in their country as if it's headline news....Besides, you just admitted yourself that Roger Waters is a pacifist and does not condone violent actions. So what are you getting at? Why are you asking if I'm ok with Waters sending Cornell a letter? Are you trying to tug at some heart strings (incite a fear based reaction) by saying BDS is making 'one of our own' a target? Sick. You're grasping at straws....using the murder of 129 innocents to further your cause....
Odd thing is that most of the Paris Islamic terrorists, according to reports, seemed to be addicts to drugs and alcohol.
Ban drugs and alcohol.
Islam would very much like that, which is why it is so odd.
It's really only odd if you think these people followed any kind of mainstream interpretation of islam. They don't - they weren't true believers of what the mass majority of muslims interpret their faith to mean, and what they deem to be acceptable behaviour.
my coworker is convinced this will be WW3. yeah, because fear mongering american media says so.
How do you respond to crap like that? I almost feel a civic duty to inform them of how stupid they are.
he said "they're already talking about it at G20". I said "yeah, maybe they are talking about how to contain the threat, but how do you go to war against an idea? it's not like it's confined to a geographical jursidiction, and no one went to war with Germany until they had millions of troops invading other countries. ISIS doesn't even have a miniscule fraction of that number, not to mention they are blowing themselves up in the process".
It's not like it's confined to a geographical jurisdiction... Someone please explain that to Obama... Cause he thinks they are contained... Somehow he needs to think outside the box sometimes...
The caliphate is contained geographically.
Highly doubt it was meant to reference the ideology, which is what I think you guys are referring to.
I hope so. There's no way to fight the ideology. Reform of Islamic culture would be needed. Stopping refugees will not stop the ideology, it just calms the mass hysteria of bringing terrorism into the US, regardless if it is truly possible with the vetting process.
oh? seems like a pretty broad statement. the attacks, and terrorist ideology, have nothing to do with islamic culture. I'm no fan of religion, but I like the scorn to be shared proportionately. No one ever talks about the culture of hate manifested in politics and ideology by bible belt christians and militant jews, who are often the biggest cheerleaders of war against muslim states. State terror that kills exponentially more people than any terrorist actions. These zealots use religious justification for murder in the exact same way islamic extremists do. The main difference being, the christian and jewish war-mongering extremists have armies of other people's kids to do their bidding for them (and governments who are willing to downplay the religious justifications for fear based ones), while the islamic extremists employ guerilla/psy-op tactics because they have no state military behind them....and if anyone thinks there are no elements of our governments/MIC (and those of our allies) exploiting these tactics to further their own causes, then you aren't paying attention.
---------------------------- Haven't seen anyone here mention yet that all of the attackers were Europeans. Guess we can stop conflating the refugee issue with terror, and get back to pinpointing blame on islam, right?
And jason - what did you mean with your latest shot at Russia? Always find your cold war throwback view of the world interesting....
Never meant that reform should only happen with one particular culture or government. It's not at all justified to kill innocent people for any cause, religious or other.
While we're talking russia.....all this complaining about equitable coverage of the lebanese attack in comparison to coverage of the paris attack....yet no one seems to be complaining about equal coverage of the Russian airliner taken down over the Sinai? Not sure if it's even been mentioned on the board yet. Debating whether lebannon was a case of human-shields for Hezbollah, or a straight up muslim-on-muslim terror attack furthers the demonization of islam....while debating the ISIS/Russia confrontation can only result in russia getting some western empathy....we wouldn't want that.
That is why maybe we should figure out who these people were before we jump to conclusions and lay blame......on that note, I'm still waiting for the evidence of the BDS movement's involvement.
The passport was a fake but the fingerprints are real. This means the terrorist passed through greece on a fake syrian passport. This shows that if the authorities can't spot a fake passport they can't verify who is an actual refugee. How can you admit refugees when the verification system clearly does not work?
As far as BDS...They finger the target while those committed to violence takes those targets down.
Please keep defending them and the murder they incite.
Ya BDS incites murder. Ok. You are shameless. Meanwhile the Israeli education minister brags about killing Palestinians....the justice minister openly calls for Palestinian genocide. you reach and speculate and draw imaginary lines to demonize peaceful protest and resistance by Palestinians, yet don't seem to cast any blame on people like Bennett and shaked, and their ever growing support among Israelis. Fine by me, I enjoy knowing that BDS makes you nervous enough to go to these extremist lengths.
BDS doesn't make me nervous but the anti-semities they provide cover for do. Chris Cornell will receive the same letter from Roger Waters that Eagles of Death Metal received. As a BDS supporter how comfortable will that make you feel?
(Pause and think)
This is a fanclub dedicated to music and the free expression of ideas after all. Who will stand up from the BDS crowd to ensure others will behave in a non-violent fashion? I am sorry but this burden falls upon the movements defenders. What happened at the Eagles show must not repeat.
anti-semite anti-semite....there was a time this term had an affect on people. Now, anyone who has even a passing interest in the occupation brushes this off as if someone is being called a 'big meanie'. Your constant alarmist victim-baiting has completely killed all legit affect this claim once had. Well done. I am more than ok with Roger Waters sending Chris Cornell a letter stating why he shouldn't play Israel. In fact Id be surprised if he hadn't already sent him one and it just hasn't been publicized. It's a letter. It doesn't promote violence. The fact that he is playing Israel again is all over the internet - every israeli rag in the world trumpets every show booked in their country as if it's headline news....Besides, you just admitted yourself that Roger Waters is a pacifist and does not condone violent actions. So what are you getting at? Why are you asking if I'm ok with Waters sending Cornell a letter? Are you trying to tug at some heart strings (incite a fear based reaction) by saying BDS is making 'one of our own' a target? Sick. You're grasping at straws....using the murder of 129 innocents to further your cause....
Odd thing is that most of the Paris Islamic terrorists, according to reports, seemed to be addicts to drugs and alcohol.
Ban drugs and alcohol.
Islam would very much like that, which is why it is so odd.
It's really only odd if you think these people followed any kind of mainstream interpretation of islam. They don't - they weren't true believers of what the mass majority of muslims interpret their faith to mean, and what they deem to be acceptable behaviour.
my coworker is convinced this will be WW3. yeah, because fear mongering american media says so.
How do you respond to crap like that? I almost feel a civic duty to inform them of how stupid they are.
he said "they're already talking about it at G20". I said "yeah, maybe they are talking about how to contain the threat, but how do you go to war against an idea? it's not like it's confined to a geographical jursidiction, and no one went to war with Germany until they had millions of troops invading other countries. ISIS doesn't even have a miniscule fraction of that number, not to mention they are blowing themselves up in the process".
It's not like it's confined to a geographical jurisdiction... Someone please explain that to Obama... Cause he thinks they are contained... Somehow he needs to think outside the box sometimes...
The caliphate is contained geographically.
Highly doubt it was meant to reference the ideology, which is what I think you guys are referring to.
I hope so. There's no way to fight the ideology. Reform of Islamic culture would be needed. Stopping refugees will not stop the ideology, it just calms the mass hysteria of bringing terrorism into the US, regardless if it is truly possible with the vetting process.
oh? seems like a pretty broad statement. the attacks, and terrorist ideology, have nothing to do with islamic culture. I'm no fan of religion, but I like the scorn to be shared proportionately. No one ever talks about the culture of hate manifested in politics and ideology by bible belt christians and militant jews, who are often the biggest cheerleaders of war against muslim states. State terror that kills exponentially more people than any terrorist actions. These zealots use religious justification for murder in the exact same way islamic extremists do. The main difference being, the christian and jewish war-mongering extremists have armies of other people's kids to do their bidding for them (and governments who are willing to downplay the religious justifications for fear based ones), while the islamic extremists employ guerilla/psy-op tactics because they have no state military behind them....and if anyone thinks there are no elements of our governments/MIC (and those of our allies) exploiting these tactics to further their own causes, then you aren't paying attention.
---------------------------- Haven't seen anyone here mention yet that all of the attackers were Europeans. Guess we can stop conflating the refugee issue with terror, and get back to pinpointing blame on islam, right?
And jason - what did you mean with your latest shot at Russia? Always find your cold war throwback view of the world interesting....
Never meant that reform should only happen with one particular culture or government. It's not at all justified to kill innocent people for any cause, religious or other.
I agree...but I'm sure people will reply to this saying 'that's no solution - we can't let ISIS overrun the middle east and bring the war to our shores!'...while completely ignoring the west's continued role in their rise. Then they'll fall back to their justifications for more war/murder.
I'm no fan of religion, but I like the scorn to be shared proportionately. No one ever talks about the culture of hate manifested in politics and ideology by bible belt christians and militant jews, who are often the biggest cheerleaders of war against muslim states. State terror that kills exponentially more people than any terrorist actions. These zealots use religious justification for murder in the exact same way islamic extremists do. The main difference being, the christian and jewish war-mongering extremists have armies of other people's kids to do their bidding for them (and governments who are willing to downplay the religious justifications for fear based ones), while the islamic extremists employ guerilla/psy-op tactics because they have no state military behind them....and if anyone thinks there are no elements of our governments/MIC (and those of our allies) exploiting these tactics to further their own causes, then you aren't paying attention.
While we're talking russia.....all this complaining about equitable coverage of the lebanese attack in comparison to coverage of the paris attack....yet no one seems to be complaining about equal coverage of the Russian airliner taken down over the Sinai? Not sure if it's even been mentioned on the board yet. Debating whether lebannon was a case of human-shields for Hezbollah, or a straight up muslim-on-muslim terror attack furthers the demonization of islam....while debating the ISIS/Russia confrontation can only result in russia getting some western empathy....we wouldn't want that.
This should be discussed and I have no problem showing the Russians empathy but let's not forget that russian backed ukrainian separatists took down a commercial jet of their own a little while back. That is not the fault of those passengers flying out of Sharm-el-sheikh but on a gut level I do struggle with Putin complaining about it.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I was just watching the news in our hotel room "house defies Obama and holts refugees" it's about time somebody pulled their heads out of their ass's and stood up to that clown to stop the flood of terrorism into our country, and more needs to be done.
another perfect example of the politics of fear working.
ask the families of isis or the so called radical muslim victims about fear...they live in fear and you really can't even begin to understand what fear is, not many of us at all can truly understand what fear is but until we do some Americans will welcome anybody just like France and Belgium did, the US is paying for it's open border policy but people who don't pay attention ignore it's warning signs and welcome terrorism with open arms, how much worse dose the situation with muslim attacks have to get before people open their eye's in America ?
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
All off shoots of the same thing. It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
ask the families of isis or the so called radical muslim victims about fear...they live in fear and you really can't even begin to understand what fear is, not many of us at all can truly understand what fear is but until we do some Americans will welcome anybody just like France and Belgium did, the US is paying for it's open border policy but people who don't pay attention ignore it's warning signs and welcome terrorism with open arms, how much worse dose the situation with muslim attacks have to get before people open their eye's in America ?
Godfather.
honestly, anyone that worries about syrian refugees coming to the US needs to educate themselves on exactly what those refugees go through to get the green light. do you know the screening process? I'm guessing you don't. read this:
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
All off shoots of the same thing. It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
I realize that. However, most the people actually fighting the war don't seem to, so the distinction is still very important.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
I don't feel like Germany and Japan are usable examples here. But in any case, I understand what you mean about the commitment to stay..... However, that same commitment to stay also equals a commitment to occupy a nation indefinitely. That is where the problem arises. It's not so easy to occupy people who don't want to be occupied, especially when they have allies elsewhere who also don't approve of the occupation, and it presents a huge moral dilemma too, especially this day and age.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?
It is only won when moderates are able to live free from fear. Again the majority of muslims don't embrace the radical ideology but are deathly afraid of their violence. They cower in the face of that violence which then allows for the radical ideology to grow. Once given security from that evil moderates will join up to defeat it. Moderation will then spread from the inside out as recruitment dries up. The essential factor though is security.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,768
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?
It is only won when moderates are able to live free from fear. Again the majority of muslims don't embrace the radical ideology but are deathly afraid of their violence. They cower in the face of that violence which then allows for the radical ideology to grow. Once given security from that evil moderates will join up to defeat it. Moderation will then spread from the inside out as recruitment dries up. The essential factor though is security.
Sounds a lot like Bush and Cheney, and that worked great.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.
Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.
Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.
Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.
Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.
Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.
I think we need to be realistic, none of these ideas will ever go away. There will always be some movement somewhere trumpeting either one of these. I believe everything is on a pendulum, you swing too far one way and it's going to swing back. Unless you believe that we are anywhere near having a Utopia......but given the problems that climate change will bring us, there is no way that will ever happen.
But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.
Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.
Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.
It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.
Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.
Yes you can
Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.
Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.
But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.
Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.
Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.
I think we need to be realistic, none of these ideas will ever go away. There will always be some movement somewhere trumpeting either one of these. I believe everything is on a pendulum, you swing too far one way and it's going to swing back. Unless you believe that we are anywhere near having a Utopia......but given the problems that climate change will bring us, there is no way that will ever happen.
Sorry, I went a little off the tracks there.
You never know. I believe human kind has the potential to rid itself of these kinds of things IF things go right in the future. But not in our lifetimes. I'm on more of a Star Trek: The Next Generation timeline. (excluding Socialism and/or Communism though, btw. These are not negative or sinister ideas in their pure form. Humans just aren't good enough to deal with them yet. I consider true Socialism or even Communism to be the ideal goal - socioeconomic theories that actually could only exist as they are theorized in a utopia, where no one is greedy or in need. "Communism" as it has existed so far is only sinister because those who try to apply it are corrupt dictators and because humans have too much greed and a need to attain power. The world has never seen real Communism at work. Only Totalitarianism.).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
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I am more than ok with Roger Waters sending Chris Cornell a letter stating why he shouldn't play Israel. In fact Id be surprised if he hadn't already sent him one and it just hasn't been publicized. It's a letter. It doesn't promote violence. The fact that he is playing Israel again is all over the internet - every israeli rag in the world trumpets every show booked in their country as if it's headline news....Besides, you just admitted yourself that Roger Waters is a pacifist and does not condone violent actions. So what are you getting at? Why are you asking if I'm ok with Waters sending Cornell a letter? Are you trying to tug at some heart strings (incite a fear based reaction) by saying BDS is making 'one of our own' a target? Sick. You're grasping at straws....using the murder of 129 innocents to further your cause....
It's really only odd if you think these people followed any kind of mainstream interpretation of islam. They don't - they weren't true believers of what the mass majority of muslims interpret their faith to mean, and what they deem to be acceptable behaviour. oh? seems like a pretty broad statement. the attacks, and terrorist ideology, have nothing to do with islamic culture.
I'm no fan of religion, but I like the scorn to be shared proportionately. No one ever talks about the culture of hate manifested in politics and ideology by bible belt christians and militant jews, who are often the biggest cheerleaders of war against muslim states. State terror that kills exponentially more people than any terrorist actions. These zealots use religious justification for murder in the exact same way islamic extremists do. The main difference being, the christian and jewish war-mongering extremists have armies of other people's kids to do their bidding for them (and governments who are willing to downplay the religious justifications for fear based ones), while the islamic extremists employ guerilla/psy-op tactics because they have no state military behind them....and if anyone thinks there are no elements of our governments/MIC (and those of our allies) exploiting these tactics to further their own causes, then you aren't paying attention.
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Haven't seen anyone here mention yet that all of the attackers were Europeans. Guess we can stop conflating the refugee issue with terror, and get back to pinpointing blame on islam, right?
And jason - what did you mean with your latest shot at Russia? Always find your cold war throwback view of the world interesting....
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http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/
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But in any case, I understand what you mean about the commitment to stay..... However, that same commitment to stay also equals a commitment to occupy a nation indefinitely. That is where the problem arises. It's not so easy to occupy people who don't want to be occupied, especially when they have allies elsewhere who also don't approve of the occupation, and it presents a huge moral dilemma too, especially this day and age.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Sorry, I went a little off the tracks there.
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