WWII

mrussel1 said:

Enkidu said:

mrussel1 said:

Enkidu said:

Whoops, I meant KL. Here's the link. (I just reread Fatherland by Robert Harris and he uses KZ for concentration camps, whoops.) http://www.amazon.com/KL-History-Nazi-Concentration-Camps/dp/0374118256/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446841545&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=kz+history+of+concentration+camps

Fatherland... what a fascinating premise and great book. HBO did a move with Rutger Hauer. It was okay. Maybe it was very good, but it paled against the book.

Fatherland is just an awesome book. It's fiction, it's a mystery/thriller, but he's such a good writer and knows his stuff. A simple, but chilling premise - what if Hitler had won the war?

Agree - the movie was okay, but the book is great.

I went on a Robert Harris binge a few years ago. I read the Cicero novels, Imperium, Conspirata, and there was one more that escapes me. They were very, very good. If you haven't read, definitely pick them up.

I am a total Robert Harris freak. I think I've read everything - I hadn't read Enigma and read that recently. An Officer and a Spy is great too. Ad the 3rd Cicero novel comes out soon - oh, unless it's out in England and I could get it already...

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Check the book out.

It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.

Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.

With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.

There's another book around the same vein, except it's focused on the homeland and how the ordinary German people knew what was happening to the Jews and were complicit. It's called "Hitler's Willing Executioners", by Daniel Goldhagen, a Harvard professor. It's very controversial but a powerful read. Many historians disagree with his conclusions though.

mrussel1 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Check the book out.

It's very objective, written by a scholar, and begins under the same premise you present.

Trust me. I am as mortified as any with regards to the atrocities war presents us. The SS were as bad as it gets, but there was a method to the madness.

With references to multiple psychological and sociological experiments and studies.. the book offers an explanation as to why ordinary men do unordinary things. It doesn't seek to absolve them.

There's another book around the same vein, except it's focused on the homeland and how the ordinary German people knew what was happening to the Jews and were complicit. It's called "Hitler's Willing Executioners", by Daniel Goldhagen, a Harvard professor. It's very controversial but a powerful read. Many historians disagree with his conclusions though.

I'll check this out.

Thanks.

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

Sorry to ramble, but I also had a German professor one year and we were studying the Eastern front. He and his family were part of the group that was forced from Danzig (Gdansk) after the war and the Poles/Soviets took back the port city. He had some horrific stories about the migration back to Germany after the war. Anyway, something he said stuck with me, and that is that the German people are still capable of the sort of "compliance" referred to earlier. It's embedded so deeply in their culture. This was 1995 or so. Things may be different today and I'm not trying to offend anyone. it's just something he believed. He must be 75 now, if still alive.

I think it's in nearly every culture, certainly ours included.

Humans are pretty weak, it's sad how sometimes the strength of a person is eliminated rather than multiplied when in herds.

That's an excellent point. Herd mentality is real.

mcgruff10 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/647492.Ordinary_Men

I m gonna have to check this one out as well. Thanks for the suggestion thirty!

No problems muchacho!

WWII is such a fascinating subject. Both of my grandfathers fought in it & I got to hear some interesting stories before they passed on. One of the stories from that time that stands out for me, was one told to me from my child's 3rd grade teacher at a parent teacher conference. (She had just lost her father the previous month.) Her father was from Italy. She said that her uncle was an allied soldier. When Hitler's army had gained control of the area her father's family was from, they did house to house searches for "enemies". Her uncle had to hide in the rafters several different times for long periods of time because they knew he fought for the other side & kept checking for him & threatening harm to the family. After the war was over her uncle, because of his service was able to relocate here to the US. He was able to bring along his brother (both unmarried at the time). She said if they had found her uncle she wouldn't be here. She had me on the edge of my seat!

The best WWII site I have ever seen was a warship. The USS Kidd in Baton Rouge, LA was a great lesson in history. The gentleman who gave us the tour was a veteran of WWII & served on the ship. The ship had taken Kamikaze hits. He was there! He told us the stories of that, the STD toilet, and so much more. Since he was a black service man of that time his jobs were different & his perspective was, too. We spent over 3 hours on that ship that day! I still think of him & his stories. He was such a great storyteller I wish he could have written a book.

I would love to take a tour. I was actually doing research for a book and there's a character who goes on both Europe and Pacific WWII tour groups - here's one I found: http://www.beyondbandofbrothers.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQiAyIayBRDo4vjdqJrgxZ0BEiQAhOYCYOuJj4wzPBSYd21b7ApmTeQYNIqwTwQPnwcFbju92VUaAt518P8HAQ

I've only been to Pearl Harbor. And that was pretty shattering. Very moving.