Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

rgambs · August 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

MayDay10 said:
because its only sports.
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun.
If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
I disagree that it's just about having fun. For the 5 and 6 year Olds it's about having fun. Once you get to 7 and 8, winning and losing has to be taught. It should piss an 8 year old off to lose. Even if you are the worst kid kn the team. And you know if you are at that age.

I think teaching kids that losing sucks, but can be dealt with and handled properly should be taught at that age. Same with teaching kids how to be good winners.

I have seen parents burn kids out of sports. But honestly, those are few and far between. You may have a parent make an ass of himself once in a while, but typically, that doesn't hurt the kids.

A grade school child getting pissed off about losing is not handling it properly. Dissatisfaction with losing is one thing, if you are getting angry you are just losing to yourself.

Last-12-Exit · August 2015

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

MayDay10 said:
because its only sports.
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun.
If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
I disagree that it's just about having fun. For the 5 and 6 year Olds it's about having fun. Once you get to 7 and 8, winning and losing has to be taught. It should piss an 8 year old off to lose. Even if you are the worst kid kn the team. And you know if you are at that age.

I think teaching kids that losing sucks, but can be dealt with and handled properly should be taught at that age. Same with teaching kids how to be good winners.

I have seen parents burn kids out of sports. But honestly, those are few and far between. You may have a parent make an ass of himself once in a while, but typically, that doesn't hurt the kids.
A grade school child getting pissed off about losing is not handling it properly. Dissatisfaction with losing is one thing, if you are getting angry you are just losing to yourself.

Were you the kid that got picked last? I kid. I disagree. I think properly channeled anger is a great motivational tool to make one better. I used it. My oldest daughter uses anger as motivation. If it doesn't bother you to lose, then you shouldn't be playing.

rgambs · August 2015

I didn't get into any of the _____ball sports, they all just seemed like politics to me. Too highly stylised and with the coach's picking favorites...didn't make any sense to me.
Then I started wrestling and Judo, and those made sense. You didn't need a rulebook to understand if you won or lost, you didn't need trophies or ribbons or explanations...
I understand that anger can be a motivation, but I think it is foolish to teach anger as motivation, it should be a technique for those who have anger that needs channelled only.

That last sentence is bullocks.
Games should be played for the love of the game, not the love of winning!

MayDay10 · August 2015

like I said before though. We got trophies and we still wanted to win, even at a young age... to the point of getting really disappointed/tears plenty of times. It was never a case of "we got these trophies coming our way anyways, why did we waste our time even trying?"

I don't think that is an issue. I don't think kids go through the season solely to obtain the trophy... nor do I think it goes through their heads after the fact that 'its OK I guess I don't need to win at anything anyway". I think those thoughts are way overblown and projected by the TPOA crowd.

It was just kind of a souvenir of the season we would get at the post-season pool party or whatever. Should we not have a pool party either because we were losers? Those were way cooler than trophies anyways and more of a reward.

Last-12-Exit · August 2015

Yes, you play because you love the game. But that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be the best at whatever you do. And losing shouldn't be fun. I love the scene in moneyball when Brad pitt walks into the locker room after a loss and sees the team with a party at most after a string of losses. He asks "is losing fun?" And proceeds to take a bat to the stereo the team was blasting. Silence follows and pitt says "that's what losing sounds like."

Last-12-Exit · August 2015

Btw, I started wrestling my freshman year because I got cut from the basketball team and wanted to stay busy between football and baseball. Best move I could make. To me, wrestling is the best one on one sport there is. I was in the best shape of my life. My wrestling coach was a huge influence in my life.

brianlux · August 2015

rgambs said:

MayDay10 said:
because its only sports.
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun.
If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.

So true! My story about beaning three batters in a row is a reflection of this. This happened when I was 10 or 11 years old. We sucked badly, so much so our teams coaches, one of whom was my father, couldn't find anybody better than me to be first string pitcher. In one inning I hit a batter with a pitch. When it happened to the next batter I looked over at my father and mouthed, "Get me out of here!". Well, Pop played what he called "semi-pro softball" in his twenties and no way was he going to let HIS SON be a loser and he kept me in. I was totally rattled and when the next batter came up and I beaned him (none were intentional) and loaded the bases, I threw my mitt down on the mound and walked off. Man, did I get my ass chewed for that! Talk about ruining an experience. It only got better later because a few games later I asked to play third base and made an unassisted double play in that position.

(My father and I are close today but it look a long time for me to get past some of the bullshit.)

PJ_Soul · August 2015

Last-12-Exit said:
Yes, you play because you love the game. But that certainly doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to be the best at whatever you do. And losing shouldn't be fun. I love the scene in moneyball when Brad pitt walks into the locker room after a loss and sees the team with a party at most after a string of losses. He asks "is losing fun?" And proceeds to take a bat to the stereo the team was blasting. Silence follows and pitt says "that's what losing sounds like."

I agree.

MayDay10 · August 2015

would it be acceptable destroy things in front of a bunch of 12 year olds because they couldn't score on the powerplay and lost a game to the Joe's Car Wash Bruins?

In pro sports they are playing for millions of dollars, championship rings, legacy, and even peoples' livelihood.

I'm commenting a lot about this because it is something that I think a lot about. My kids are nearing the age of entering sports, and I have actually scouted around and found a youth hockey organization in the area that does not focus as much on competition as they do on personal and skills development. They compete, but its a great atmosphere, and politics are nonexistent. They have a knack for fostering top high school players and scholarship athletes. I also plan on coaching tee-ball on up and I plan on focusing on players' skills and enjoyment. I am sure kids will still desire to win and I wont be harboring a team of spineless pansies.
One of my degrees is in Physical Education and we covered topics like this.

Playing, coaching, and officiating youth sports most of my life has led me to the conclusion that 'win at all costs' is an awful and poisonous stance for parents to take.

I presented the question before... but would you rather see your kid lose a competition by being selfless and helping a weaker opponent or teammate? or trample his/her way through a weaker kid to win a game? I bet if the former happened, most onlookers would be envious.

There is the old quote that is dead on:
"Sports do not build character, they reveal it"
-John Wooden

on2legs · August 2015

If your a parent who lets their kid form their opinions about hard work, effort, and persistence from a tiny piece of plastic then you're not doing your job as a parent.

Those lessons should be given and reinforced in your home. If you're raising your kid right the world won't end if they get a trophy for showing up for tee ball.

rgambs · August 2015

Last-12-Exit said:
Btw, I started wrestling my freshman year because I got cut from the basketball team and wanted to stay busy between football and baseball. Best move I could make. To me, wrestling is the best one on one sport there is. I was in the best shape of my life. My wrestling coach was a huge influence in my life.

It is the best sport! One on one, the referee has little power, coach can't pick favorites to start, and it teaches you a form of self-defense that is truly defensive...and quite powerful. Boxers lose to wrestlers 9 out of 10 times.
Talk about being in shape, there is no sport that gives a more total body fitness, a fitness that is practical as well.

hedonist · August 2015

PJ_Soul said:
I think it's damaging for sure. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that kids get prizes just for showing up. I also think these little graduations they have for middle school and various random grades is stupid. I don't really think that getting through grade 6 is not a special accomplishment unless we're talking about kids with mental disabilities. Getting through elementary school is a mandatory responsibility that doesn't deserve celebration IMO. I think all this over-congratulating is going to make kids think that everything they do is a lot more special than it is, which equals a bunch of entitled spoiled brats who expect to be rewarded for simply carrying out their responsibilities.
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????

Fascinating thread! Much agreed with the the above, and must admit I'm coming at this from a general vs. sports-specific related view.

rr165892 · August 2015

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Btw, I started wrestling my freshman year because I got cut from the basketball team and wanted to stay busy between football and baseball. Best move I could make. To me, wrestling is the best one on one sport there is. I was in the best shape of my life. My wrestling coach was a huge influence in my life.
It is the best sport! One on one, the referee has little power, coach can't pick favorites to start, and it teaches you a form of self-defense that is truly defensive...and quite powerful. Boxers lose to wrestlers 9 out of 10 times.
Talk about being in shape, there is no sport that gives a more total body fitness, a fitness that is practical as well.

Admit it beard boy,you just wanted to rock that singlet/onesie.You can't fool us

MayDay10 said:
would it be acceptable destroy things in front of a bunch of 12 year olds because they couldn't score on the powerplay and lost a game to the Joe's Car Wash Bruins?

In pro sports they are playing for millions of dollars, championship rings, legacy, and even peoples' livelihood.

I'm commenting a lot about this because it is something that I think a lot about. My kids are nearing the age of entering sports, and I have actually scouted around and found a youth hockey organization in the area that does not focus as much on competition as they do on personal and skills development. They compete, but its a great atmosphere, and politics are nonexistent. They have a knack for fostering top high school players and scholarship athletes. I also plan on coaching tee-ball on up and I plan on focusing on players' skills and enjoyment. I am sure kids will still desire to win and I wont be harboring a team of spineless pansies.
One of my degrees is in Physical Education and we covered topics like this.

Playing, coaching, and officiating youth sports most of my life has led me to the conclusion that 'win at all costs' is an awful and poisonous stance for parents to take.

I presented the question before... but would you rather see your kid lose a competition by being selfless and helping a weaker opponent or teammate? or trample his/her way through a weaker kid to win a game? I bet if the former happened, most onlookers would be envious.

There is the old quote that is dead on:
"Sports do not build character, they reveal it"
-John Wooden

Love that quote by wooden May.

If your kids are getting ready for team sports then enjoy the hell out of it.It goes quick,and quits being fun and turns into some big buisness as they get into their early teens and HS.Sounds like the are in good hands if your coaching.

pjhawks · August 2015

MayDay10 said:
would it be acceptable destroy things in front of a bunch of 12 year olds because they couldn't score on the powerplay and lost a game to the Joe's Car Wash Bruins?

In pro sports they are playing for millions of dollars, championship rings, legacy, and even peoples' livelihood.

I'm commenting a lot about this because it is something that I think a lot about. My kids are nearing the age of entering sports, and I have actually scouted around and found a youth hockey organization in the area that does not focus as much on competition as they do on personal and skills development. They compete, but its a great atmosphere, and politics are nonexistent. They have a knack for fostering top high school players and scholarship athletes. I also plan on coaching tee-ball on up and I plan on focusing on players' skills and enjoyment. I am sure kids will still desire to win and I wont be harboring a team of spineless pansies.
One of my degrees is in Physical Education and we covered topics like this.

Playing, coaching, and officiating youth sports most of my life has led me to the conclusion that 'win at all costs' is an awful and poisonous stance for parents to take.

I presented the question before... but would you rather see your kid lose a competition by being selfless and helping a weaker opponent or teammate? or trample his/her way through a weaker kid to win a game? I bet if the former happened, most onlookers would be envious.

There is the old quote that is dead on:
"Sports do not build character, they reveal it"
-John Wooden

hard for anyone to disagree with the bolded comment above BUT again i think you are over equating us who say don't give trophies to everyone to being only about winning and losing and that's not what we are saying.

also at 12 years old kids know when parents are acting like a dick. if a 12 year sees a parent act like that most are going to understand that is not the way to do that.

rgambs · August 2015

I rocked it like Iron Butterfly!

Last-12-Exit · August 2015

I did not fear the singlet.

pjhawks · August 2015

Last-12-Exit said:
Btw, I started wrestling my freshman year because I got cut from the basketball team and wanted to stay busy between football and baseball. Best move I could make. To me, wrestling is the best one on one sport there is. I was in the best shape of my life. My wrestling coach was a huge influence in my life.

"so you wear tights" - always good for a Breakfast Club quote.

and not to get off topic but i don't see how starving yourself to make weight is a good thing. the wrestlers at my school would do crazy shit to make weight. no thanks.

Last-12-Exit · August 2015

I was also able to avoid the dreaded cauliflower ear. I never understood the guys that would practice without headgear. Made no sense to me.

I also did not have to cut weight. I weighed 136 lbs my senior year and wrestled in 134 weight class. Makes a huge difference.

MayDay10 · August 2015

I have seen a 120 pound wrestler take down a monster once in a bar

rr165892 · August 2015

pjhawks said:

Last-12-Exit said:
Btw, I started wrestling my freshman year because I got cut from the basketball team and wanted to stay busy between football and baseball. Best move I could make. To me, wrestling is the best one on one sport there is. I was in the best shape of my life. My wrestling coach was a huge influence in my life.
"so you wear tights" - always good for a Breakfast Club quote.

and not to get off topic but i don't see how starving yourself to make weight is a good thing. the wrestlers at my school would do crazy shit to make weight. no thanks.

My kids high school made national news when the wrestling team ,thanks to some boosters and coaches got busted for juicing.lots of failed tests,many kids lost rankings and the program went on super secret probation.Huge investigations followed.They were state champions at the time.oooops

Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

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