Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

rr165892

After reading the story of Pro football player James Harrison who is making his young sons return a couple of participation trophies.It got me thinking this is kind of an interesting discussion,and I would love to know what you guys think after reading the story?
I personally think it's gotten out of control and is not properly preparing the youth of today for the real world were there is winners and losers and loosing means learning,refocusing and working harder until you do succeed.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/16/james-harrison-wont-let-his-sons-accept-participation-trophies/

Note- shout out to Indifference who posted this link in the NFL thread.

Gern Blansten

I think it's ridiculous. I'm 47 and remember getting participation ribbons in elementary school for field day activities and participation trophies for baseball, football, etc.

It seems like a right wing pandering point to me.

hedonist

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

JimmyV

I think the problem arises in the difference between a ribbon and a trophy. Kids who participate in a competition getting some sort of commemorative memento - meaning a ribbon or a patch, something like that - makes sense to me. There is an accomplishment just in taking part, particularly for the kids who are not really good and still stick with it.

The trophy is a different. The trophy should go to those who have won. Not everyone is going to win, not everyone is going to get a trophy. That is a good life lesson for kids.

Gern Blansten

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

hedonist

And some people just see it for what it is. I see it for what it is.

And...of course...it's not a "fucking Nobel Peace Prize". It's still worth commenting on, no?

Yeah, it is.

Didn't see anything about society itself being affected (though not so far-fetched); apologies if I missed that particular passage.

rr165892

Really Gern ?Its part of a right wing agenda? Your fucking kidding me right?Do you have kids?

I raised 3. All achieved high levels of their respective activities(one was a div 1 college scholarship football player and ranked ice hockey player,one was accomplished vocalist who led her show choir and one toured Europe in a high level dance company.)
None of them were babied or mommy cuddled,all three went to college,and all three are on their way to successful careers.When they didn't do enough to win or succeed in their endeavors we encouraged more hard work,more dedication,more study,more lessons,more sweat and tears.They fell on their faces many times,but learned the lesson that anything good is earned not given.And are better people for it.

We are churning out a bunch of soft kids with freaky overprotective helicopter parents .Its sickening.And I'm sure democrats do the same as republicans.that was foolish Gern.

Hedo- dead on as always.My thoughts exactly

Jimmy- I'm also cool with at shirt,patch,sticker commerative mug etc,etc a nice token of the event or season.

pjhawks

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

pjhawks

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. Having 'B' and 'C' teams because you don't want to cut any kids from a team. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

MayDay10

It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey and baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

From what I recall... usually the championship team would receive bigger trophies... as well as bragging rights in school and friends etc... then the better players would break off to travel and tournaments that were higher level and we needed to succeed to receive trophies.

Jason P

I can see getting one for sports that don't keep score (outside of nutty parents) such as t-ball or biddy basketball.

That said, James Harrison is a crazy, scary MoFo who shows no mercy, much like Captain Insano.

Drowned Out

I dunno....on the surface, it seems silly.....but what is wrong with giving kids something to take home and show off? I always got participation trophies in hockey as a kid. The winners got bigger, better trophies.
What are we teaching kids when we tell them repeatedly, 'it's just a game...the most important thing is to have fun'....then we sit here and talk about how it's meant to prepare them for competition in the real world? I mean...if we're talking high-level competitive sport, with kids who are projected to make a career out of the game....fine. But if it's rec-level sport, where's the harm? In the examples, did they get rid of different trophies for the winners? Probably not....so what's the big deal? I'm sure these decisions are not 100% based on being PC. I've not looked into it, but i'm assuming someone, somewhere looked into this and figured out that there were detrimental effects on kids over something that's supposed to be fun for them.
I can understand the right-wing agenda comment, and the flipside is that the right will always blame the left for the participation trophies
I mean....ya, we can learn lessons by falling on our faces and picking ourselves up, but can you not learn that lesson with or without a participation trophy? What happens to the kid who is playing for fun but NEVER wins anything, who is ALWAYS a 'looser'? Will they want to continue? Probably not....and they will probably FEEL like a loser as a result. That shouldn't be what kids take away from sport.

pjhawks

MayDay10 said:

It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey aND baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

do you disagree with the philosophy that having an incentive to achieve can lead to more achievement as opposed to lack of incentive? Would you work as hard if you knew you couldn't be fired, your salary wouldn't change regardless of performance? Yes there are some whose pride wouldn't allow that attitude to prevail but without incentive many would not come close to their level of achievement when pushed...see how some union workers work these days in reference.

Is it just a coincidence that often times in sports it's mentioned that players perform best in the last year of their contracts when they are playing for their next one?

Jason P

Here is James Harrison contributing the the NFL's concussion study ...



In 2012 67.5% of NFL players named Harrison the dirtiest player in the league. Mind you, Ray "I Stabbed a Man" Lewis was still in the league at the time.

Jason P

My point being, whether you agree with him or not, you should look to James Harrison for advice on life.

Also, fuck the Steelers.

MayDay10

This is recreational activities. More kids are more likely to pee their pants than to hit for the cycle.

If parents want their kids to win, they can just act like assholes behind closed doors.

When the level gets higher and more premier/competive, then there is more emphasis/focus on winning.

House leagues it's recreation/social activity and the benefit is finish what they started and maybe improve.

hedonist

When I was a kid, I used to take part in spelling bees. Not the big to-do, just classroom level shit. Worked hard, my dad and I used to read the dictionary together because we loved language and words, plus just for the fuck of it.

Many times I won - and was proud of it - but when I didn't, the thought of getting a "prize" just for taking part would've struck me as a pat on the head. It went without saying that the effort itself was worthy. Because something tangible wasn't given to me for that didn't negate my attempt - my MY mind. That is/was invaluable.

brianlux

A lot of good but conflicting points here. When we finally get to the bottom of this mess I have no doubt we'll learn it's Obama's fault!

rr165892

Jason P said:

My point being, whether you agree with him or not, you should look to James Harrison for advice on life.

Also, fuck the Steelers.

I agree,fuck the steelers!

Drowned Out

MayDay10 said:

This is recreational activities. More kids are more likely to pee their pants than to hit for the cycle.

If parents want their kids to win, they can just act like assholes behind closed doors.

When the level gets higher and more premier/competive, then there is more emphasis/focus on winning.

House leagues it's recreation/social activity and the benefit is finish what they started and maybe improve.

exactly. We can't bitch about parents being assholes from the stands, screaming 'win win win', then turn around and bitch that we are rewarding people who don't meet the standards of the assholes. When Larry Lester's buns get taped together because some kid keeps thinking about his father's attitude toward weakness, we have no one to blame but ourselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ZyYtoKuUs

rr165892

brianlux said:

A lot of good but conflicting points here. When we finally get to the bottom of this mess I have no doubt we'll learn it's Obama's fault!

Do you think his girls aren't encouraged to get the best grades and excel at activities just like mom and dad? I would say DAD and mom can show them what a success is,and how to get their.

Gern Blansten

MayDay10 said:

It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey and baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

From what I recall... usually the championship team would receive bigger trophies... as well as bragging rights in school and friends etc... then the better players would break off to travel and tournaments that were higher level and we needed to succeed to receive trophies.

agreed...

Gern Blansten

Drowned Out said:

I dunno....on the surface, it seems silly.....but what is wrong with giving kids something to take home and show off? I always got participation trophies in hockey as a kid. The winners got bigger, better trophies.
What are we teaching kids when we tell them repeatedly, 'it's just a game...the most important thing is to have fun'....then we sit here and talk about how it's meant to prepare them for competition in the real world? I mean...if we're talking high-level competitive sport, with kids who are projected to make a career out of the game....fine. But if it's rec-level sport, where's the harm? In the examples, did they get rid of different trophies for the winners? Probably not....so what's the big deal? I'm sure these decisions are not 100% based on being PC. I've not looked into it, but i'm assuming someone, somewhere looked into this and figured out that there were detrimental effects on kids over something that's supposed to be fun for them.
I can understand the right-wing agenda comment, and the flipside is that the right will always blame the left for the participation trophies
I mean....ya, we can learn lessons by falling on our faces and picking ourselves up, but can you not learn that lesson with or without a participation trophy? What happens to the kid who is playing for fun but NEVER wins anything, who is ALWAYS a 'looser'? Will they want to continue? Probably not....and they will probably FEEL like a loser as a result. That shouldn't be what kids take away from sport.

exactly...if your kid doesn't know the difference that's the parents fault...not the organization that provides the participation prize.

brianlux

There's a balance between participating and win win win which is give it your best shot and hope to do better next time and when you do come on top, give kudos to those who follow. We so often used to hear "It's not whether you win or loose, it's how you play the game." Not so much any more. It's more like "winning is everything".

hedonist said:

When I was a kid, I used to take part in spelling bees. Not the big to-do, just classroom level shit. Worked hard, my dad and I used to read the dictionary together because we loved language and words, plus just for the fuck of it.

Many times I won - and was proud of it - but when I didn't, the thought of getting a "prize" just for taking part would've struck me as a pat on the head. It went without saying that the effort itself was worthy. Because something tangible wasn't given to me for that didn't negate my attempt - my MY mind. That is/was invaluable.

That's a great point, Hedo. Owning what you do in your head and heart will last longer than any trophy, ribbon or paper.

Kat

I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.

InHiding80

These people thought it was a good idea just because Streisand and Hoffman did that for Ben Stiller. As if I need further proof that the sequel was a POS.

rr165892

Kat said:

I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.

That is more fitting

rgambs

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

rr165892

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

The real sports story was very good and shed a lot of light on this.

MayDay10

what/when is the "tradition" though?

Somewhere in a box in my dad's attic, I have a 1985 "participation trophy". It stands about 3 inches high (lol) and has "1985 RED SOX" on it. I was 6 and I was thrilled.

We won 1 game that season (I think). Some parents banded their older/bigger kids together and they dominated. I recall one game against a bunch of big fat kids, they would chant 'batter cant hit' and 'swing batter'... all encouraged by their "coach". We lost by like 16 runs and parents almost came to blows over this travesty.

4 of us on that team became extremely good high school athletes and played collegiate sports.

hedonist

rgambs said:

hedonist said:

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

gambs, it seems like more unnecessary divisiveness. True some may make that association, but given that many don't partake of FB or other similar sites doesn't take away that it's not necessarily or always about politics.

To assume that is as counterproductive as claiming those who feel X are part of Y group.