How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.
I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal. You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.
I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.
This is something you will be facing head on in about 41/2 years.Usually starts with soccer and not keeping score.Then tball.etc Do you really want SG settling ? do you want him rewarded (acknowledged with a patch is ok)just for trying? Or do you want him , when he can't climb that cliff face to keep trying until he has that personal victory and climbs it after many attempts because that's what it takes, and the self esteem that comes with it.isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?
How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.
I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal. You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.
I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.
gambs, it seems like more unnecessary divisiveness. True some may make that association, but given that many don't partake of FB or other similar sites doesn't take away that it's not necessarily or always about politics.
To assume that is as counterproductive as claiming those who feel X are part of Y group.
I think it is important to know who is peddling what sentiments. On any topic there will be a range of political leanings that will agree and disagree, it rarely falls strictly left or right when you get into the details, but where a narrative originates is often sharply partisan. Participation trophy philosophy (if you will) comes from the left, and the opposition comes from the rights. Sometimes the origin makes all the difference, but even when the origin doesn't make much difference to the outcome of the discussion, that doesn't mean it should be ignored. What you see as divisiveness, I see as just a piece of information that is part of the whole truth of a matter.
isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?
No
rec house sports leagues are about the trying and recreation. You said you wanted to play, mom/dad bought you a glove and paid for registration, and you damn well get off the video games and go to practice and finish the season.
Kids who typically are into sports fully understand winning/losing and watch professional sports. They get the concept. They want to win. If parents want to "stress" winning in the 9 year old house baseball league even more, then they can put more pressure on their kid to win.
I played in house leagues in some capacity nearly every year for various sports from age 6-16. Never won 1 house league championship. Always got a trophy of some sort. It didn't warp my concept of doing math at school, conducting business, performing athletic feats, getting through college on my own, or anything else.
Like has been stressed too... typically the championship teams get much better trophies... at least that is how it was in my day.
How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.
I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal. You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.
I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.
I didn't realize that they didn't have facebook....totally agree here. It is a common theme among the right wingers.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018) The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.
sure but when there are 50 or more and their is no distinguishing difference between the 50 meaning is lost if they are all the same. the reward and adulation for writing a paper that earns an A is and shouldn't be the same for those that write a C paper. yet in sports we've decided it is ok to reward them the same. why?
it's our generation who has gone to extremes to protect our children from any minor negative experience. lots of times i think we've gone too far.
isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?
No
rec house sports leagues are about the trying and recreation. You said you wanted to play, mom/dad bought you a glove and paid for registration, and you damn well get off the video games and go to practice and finish the season.
Kids who typically are into sports fully understand winning/losing and watch professional sports. They get the concept. They want to win. If parents want to "stress" winning in the 9 year old house baseball league even more, then they can put more pressure on their kid to win.
I played in house leagues in some capacity nearly every year for various sports from age 6-16. Never won 1 house league championship. Always got a trophy of some sort. It didn't warp my concept of doing math at school, conducting business, performing athletic feats, getting through college on my own, or anything else.
Like has been stressed too... typically the championship teams get much better trophies... at least that is how it was in my day.
May,I've also played on teams my whole life until adulthood and then I coached for years both baseball,hockey and football. On my 8 and under daughters hockey team along with other teams I coached years ago we did a Nice pizza party at end of year and then awards.They weren't participation per say they were individualized to the kid to highlight something they did well.build their confidence.Example -Chloe ,got best skater,another kid got most improved,another kid got leading scorer,Another best defenseman and so on.At least that puts a emphasis on personal achievement. If it's 5 year olds who don't keep score and don't have goalies in soccer and at the end of the season you want to give out a little token that's fine.When it's a 12 year old who should be playing tackle football or fast pitch and is playing flag or coach pitch I don't think it should apply.
As a kid, one year in little league I beaned three batters in a row (I was our #1 starting pitcher). I never got a trophy for that. What's up with that!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think it's damaging for sure. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that kids get prizes just for showing up. I also think these little graduations they have for middle school and various random grades is stupid. I don't really think that getting through grade 6 is a special accomplishment unless we're talking about kids with mental disabilities. Getting through elementary school is a mandatory responsibility that doesn't deserve celebration IMO. I think all this over-congratulating is going to make kids think that everything they do is a lot more special than it is, which equals a bunch of entitled spoiled brats who expect to be rewarded for simply carrying out their responsibilities. I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I wouldn't freak if there were no trophies for everybody... its the outrage against them that gets me... as if that is what is wrong with kids/USA. This is kids kicking a ball around. Worry about Math and reading.
IMO, in sports at a young age, social skills, teamwork, improving motor skills, and having fun are the #1-4 reasons. Kids want to win too. I remember crying after losing some games (even though I had a siiiick participation trophy coming my way). Winning carries a lot of personal gratification benefits as it is, the trophy is secondary (and winners get better ones).
What would make you prouder/more hopeful for the individual? If he came in spikes high and scored the winning run, arguing with the umpire, taunting/trash talking? Or showing empathy for a weaker teammate or opponent by helping him/her out, maybe volunteering playing time, going easier on an opponent who has just gotten his first hit?
There are so many other important skills than "Grrrrrr grunt winning". You want competition/balls, have the kids show it when attacking their schoolwork.
And I'm a big sports guy too, and really hope my kids are decent enough to get a lot of fulfillment and maybe even college $.
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
It seems every generation has similar reservations about those generations after them. Pretty sure the world was supposed to end when our generation made it to now. Its just how it goes.
We didn't get a trophy unless we won our division in little league. The coach would typically throw a end of year party for the team and hand out ribbons. I think there is a huge difference in ribbons and trophies. My wife is a youth soccer coach for the YMCA. She gives trophies for all the kids. I've told her several times that I disagreed with that. If that team didn't win a game, they would get a trophy. To me, the trophy is for a season played well. At some point before high school, children need to be taught about winning and losing. Kids need to know how to do both.
As a kid, one year in little league I beaned three batters in a row (I was our #1 starting pitcher). I never got a trophy for that. What's up with that!
As a matter of fact Brian I was just crafting you a "Top Earth Muffin" trophy made from recycled paper mache,repurposed sea kelp and old prius parts.its stunning.
I think it's damaging for sure. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that kids get prizes just for showing up. I also think these little graduations they have for middle school and various random grades is stupid. I don't really think that getting through grade 6 is not a special accomplishment unless we're talking about kids with mental disabilities. Getting through elementary school is a mandatory responsibility that doesn't deserve celebration IMO. I think all this over-congratulating is going to make kids think that everything they do is a lot more special than it is, which equals a bunch of entitled spoiled brats who expect to be rewarded for simply carrying out their responsibilities. I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
We don't agree on many things, but that sentence I couldn't agree with more. I'm tired of pre K graduation ceremonies!
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
It seems every generation has similar reservations about those generations after them. Pretty sure the world was supposed to end when our generation made it to now. Its just how it goes.
I'm not just being a stupid old coot saying the next generation is going to hell in a hand basket though. I'm talking about the specific tendency of our OWN generation doing this to children. I don't know wtf happened so that the Gen Xers felt they should start treating their kids like useless morons, but it's pissing me off.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I wouldn't freak if there were no trophies for everybody... its the outrage against them that gets me... as if that is what is wrong with kids/USA. This is kids kicking a ball around. Worry about Math and reading.
IMO, in sports at a young age, social skills, teamwork, improving motor skills, and having fun are the #1-4 reasons. Kids want to win too. I remember crying after losing some games (even though I had a siiiick participation trophy coming my way). Winning carries a lot of personal gratification benefits as it is, the trophy is secondary (and winners get better ones).
What would make you prouder/more hopeful for the individual? If he came in spikes high and scored the winning run, arguing with the umpire, taunting/trash talking? Or showing empathy for a weaker teammate or opponent by helping him/her out, maybe volunteering playing time, going easier on an opponent who has just gotten his first hit?
There are so many other important skills than "Grrrrrr grunt winning". You want competition/balls, have the kids show it when attacking their schoolwork.
And I'm a big sports guy too, and really hope my kids are decent enough to get a lot of fulfillment and maybe even college $.
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
It seems every generation has similar reservations about those generations after them. Pretty sure the world was supposed to end when our generation made it to now. Its just how it goes.
May Day as I mentioned in response to Kat's post, the difference is is we do distinguish differences in schoolwork based on achievement by giving different grades. not every kid who shows up for class gets the same grade so WHY is that ok to do in sports?
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun. If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
As a kid, one year in little league I beaned three batters in a row (I was our #1 starting pitcher). I never got a trophy for that. What's up with that!
As a matter of fact Brian I was just crafting you a "Top Earth Muffin" trophy made from recycled paper mache,repurposed sea kelp and old prius parts.its stunning.
Whoo Hoo!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
And that attitude is probably a big part of why so many kids are fat and lazy.
Sports are really important and teach kids a lot of valuable lessons that are useful for the rest of their lives. One of those lessons should not be "you win even when you lose".
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun. If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
I disagree that it's just about having fun. For the 5 and 6 year Olds it's about having fun. Once you get to 7 and 8, winning and losing has to be taught. It should piss an 8 year old off to lose. Even if you are the worst kid kn the team. And you know if you are at that age.
I think teaching kids that losing sucks, but can be dealt with and handled properly should be taught at that age. Same with teaching kids how to be good winners.
I have seen parents burn kids out of sports. But honestly, those are few and far between. You may have a parent make an ass of himself once in a while, but typically, that doesn't hurt the kids.
Yes, sports are games...it is supposed to be about having fun. If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
agree 100% but i think sometimes speaking out against everyone getting a trophy is misconstrued into pushing a winning matters or winning at all costs mentality and that is far from what I am saying. By over protecting our children we eliminate the process of learning how to deal with defeat and failure. Kids are way smarter and more resiliant than what our generation seems to give them credit for. We over protected them to the nth degree these days and giving them a participation trophy is just one way we do that in my opinion.
And that attitude is probably a big part of why so many kids are fat and lazy.
Sports are really important and teach kids a lot of valuable lessons that are useful for the rest of their lives. One of those lessons should not be "you win even when you lose".
you guys do realize the trophy is a couple-inch tall piece of plastic, and kids don't participate in sports solely to obtain said piece of plastic, right? Naturally it is much more gratifying to win than lose. No matter what the trophy situation is.
And "that attitude" is the right one to have. Have you dealt with youth sports organizations and the copious amount of bullshit that occurs because every parent thinks their Hayden and Cayden is the next Sidney Crosby or Derek Jeter? I have seen referees physically attacked by rabid parents. The best thing kids can take out of it are the things I outlined earlier: Social skills, teamwork, completing a commitment, fun, improving some motor skills.
It is 'important', but It is only youth sports. Winning and losing naturally comes as a desire to participants. The kids who are typically better get whisked away to bigger and better leagues that are much more competitive.
That "attitude" isn't close to being why kids are overall fat and lazy. Its an overall trend of society (has sports ever been as focused on and large as it is now?) Kids just do not play outside in general ambient time. Too much artificial stimulus. Awful food is just too easy to obtain. Parents with poor eating habits pass down their garbage.
Comments
Do you really want SG settling ? do you want him rewarded (acknowledged with a patch is ok)just for trying? Or do you want him , when he can't climb that cliff face to keep trying until he has that personal victory and climbs it after many attempts because that's what it takes, and the self esteem that comes with it.isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?
On any topic there will be a range of political leanings that will agree and disagree, it rarely falls strictly left or right when you get into the details, but where a narrative originates is often sharply partisan.
Participation trophy philosophy (if you will) comes from the left, and the opposition comes from the rights.
Sometimes the origin makes all the difference, but even when the origin doesn't make much difference to the outcome of the discussion, that doesn't mean it should be ignored.
What you see as divisiveness, I see as just a piece of information that is part of the whole truth of a matter.
rec house sports leagues are about the trying and recreation. You said you wanted to play, mom/dad bought you a glove and paid for registration, and you damn well get off the video games and go to practice and finish the season.
Kids who typically are into sports fully understand winning/losing and watch professional sports. They get the concept. They want to win. If parents want to "stress" winning in the 9 year old house baseball league even more, then they can put more pressure on their kid to win.
I played in house leagues in some capacity nearly every year for various sports from age 6-16. Never won 1 house league championship. Always got a trophy of some sort. It didn't warp my concept of doing math at school, conducting business, performing athletic feats, getting through college on my own, or anything else.
Like has been stressed too... typically the championship teams get much better trophies... at least that is how it was in my day.
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
it's our generation who has gone to extremes to protect our children from any minor negative experience. lots of times i think we've gone too far.
If it's 5 year olds who don't keep score and don't have goalies in soccer and at the end of the season you want to give out a little token that's fine.When it's a 12 year old who should be playing tackle football or fast pitch and is playing flag or coach pitch I don't think it should apply.
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????
I wouldn't freak if there were no trophies for everybody... its the outrage against them that gets me... as if that is what is wrong with kids/USA. This is kids kicking a ball around. Worry about Math and reading.
IMO, in sports at a young age, social skills, teamwork, improving motor skills, and having fun are the #1-4 reasons. Kids want to win too. I remember crying after losing some games (even though I had a siiiick participation trophy coming my way). Winning carries a lot of personal gratification benefits as it is, the trophy is secondary (and winners get better ones).
What would make you prouder/more hopeful for the individual? If he came in spikes high and scored the winning run, arguing with the umpire, taunting/trash talking?
Or showing empathy for a weaker teammate or opponent by helping him/her out, maybe volunteering playing time, going easier on an opponent who has just gotten his first hit?
There are so many other important skills than "Grrrrrr grunt winning". You want competition/balls, have the kids show it when attacking their schoolwork.
And I'm a big sports guy too, and really hope my kids are decent enough to get a lot of fulfillment and maybe even college $.
It seems every generation has similar reservations about those generations after them. Pretty sure the world was supposed to end when our generation made it to now. Its just how it goes.
edit: 'officially it is '65 to '86
Y is = "Millennials" I believe... which would be like '86 to '05?
If you've never seen a parent ruin a sport for their kid by pushing too hard to win, you've never been on any sports teams.
Sports are really important and teach kids a lot of valuable lessons that are useful for the rest of their lives. One of those lessons should not be "you win even when you lose".
I think teaching kids that losing sucks, but can be dealt with and handled properly should be taught at that age. Same with teaching kids how to be good winners.
I have seen parents burn kids out of sports. But honestly, those are few and far between. You may have a parent make an ass of himself once in a while, but typically, that doesn't hurt the kids.
Naturally it is much more gratifying to win than lose. No matter what the trophy situation is.
And "that attitude" is the right one to have. Have you dealt with youth sports organizations and the copious amount of bullshit that occurs because every parent thinks their Hayden and Cayden is the next Sidney Crosby or Derek Jeter? I have seen referees physically attacked by rabid parents. The best thing kids can take out of it are the things I outlined earlier: Social skills, teamwork, completing a commitment, fun, improving some motor skills.
It is 'important', but It is only youth sports. Winning and losing naturally comes as a desire to participants. The kids who are typically better get whisked away to bigger and better leagues that are much more competitive.
That "attitude" isn't close to being why kids are overall fat and lazy. Its an overall trend of society (has sports ever been as focused on and large as it is now?) Kids just do not play outside in general ambient time. Too much artificial stimulus. Awful food is just too easy to obtain. Parents with poor eating habits pass down their garbage.