Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

Gern Blansten · August 2015

MayDay10 said:
It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey and baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

From what I recall... usually the championship team would receive bigger trophies... as well as bragging rights in school and friends etc... then the better players would break off to travel and tournaments that were higher level and we needed to succeed to receive trophies.

agreed...

Gern Blansten · August 2015

Drowned Out said:
I dunno....on the surface, it seems silly.....but what is wrong with giving kids something to take home and show off? I always got participation trophies in hockey as a kid. The winners got bigger, better trophies.
What are we teaching kids when we tell them repeatedly, 'it's just a game...the most important thing is to have fun'....then we sit here and talk about how it's meant to prepare them for competition in the real world? I mean...if we're talking high-level competitive sport, with kids who are projected to make a career out of the game....fine. But if it's rec-level sport, where's the harm? In the examples, did they get rid of different trophies for the winners? Probably not....so what's the big deal? I'm sure these decisions are not 100% based on being PC. I've not looked into it, but i'm assuming someone, somewhere looked into this and figured out that there were detrimental effects on kids over something that's supposed to be fun for them.
I can understand the right-wing agenda comment, and the flipside is that the right will always blame the left for the participation trophies
I mean....ya, we can learn lessons by falling on our faces and picking ourselves up, but can you not learn that lesson with or without a participation trophy? What happens to the kid who is playing for fun but NEVER wins anything, who is ALWAYS a 'looser'? Will they want to continue? Probably not....and they will probably FEEL like a loser as a result. That shouldn't be what kids take away from sport.

exactly...if your kid doesn't know the difference that's the parents fault...not the organization that provides the participation prize.

brianlux · August 2015

There's a balance between participating and win win win which is give it your best shot and hope to do better next time and when you do come on top, give kudos to those who follow. We so often used to hear "It's not whether you win or loose, it's how you play the game." Not so much any more. It's more like "winning is everything".

hedonist said:
When I was a kid, I used to take part in spelling bees. Not the big to-do, just classroom level shit. Worked hard, my dad and I used to read the dictionary together because we loved language and words, plus just for the fuck of it.

Many times I won - and was proud of it - but when I didn't, the thought of getting a "prize" just for taking part would've struck me as a pat on the head. It went without saying that the effort itself was worthy. Because something tangible wasn't given to me for that didn't negate my attempt - my MY mind. That is/was invaluable.

That's a great point, Hedo. Owning what you do in your head and heart will last longer than any trophy, ribbon or paper.

Kat · August 2015

I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.

InHiding80 · August 2015

These people thought it was a good idea just because Streisand and Hoffman did that for Ben Stiller. As if I need further proof that the sequel was a POS.

rr165892 · August 2015

Kat said:
I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.

That is more fitting

rgambs · August 2015

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

rr165892 · August 2015

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.
have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

The real sports story was very good and shed a lot of light on this.

MayDay10 · August 2015

what/when is the "tradition" though?

Somewhere in a box in my dad's attic, I have a 1985 "participation trophy". It stands about 3 inches high (lol) and has "1985 RED SOX" on it. I was 6 and I was thrilled.

We won 1 game that season (I think). Some parents banded their older/bigger kids together and they dominated. I recall one game against a bunch of big fat kids, they would chant 'batter cant hit' and 'swing batter'... all encouraged by their "coach". We lost by like 16 runs and parents almost came to blows over this travesty.

4 of us on that team became extremely good high school athletes and played collegiate sports.

hedonist · August 2015

rgambs said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

gambs, it seems like more unnecessary divisiveness. True some may make that association, but given that many don't partake of FB or other similar sites doesn't take away that it's not necessarily or always about politics.

To assume that is as counterproductive as claiming those who feel X are part of Y group.

rr165892 · August 2015

rgambs said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

This is something you will be facing head on in about 41/2 years.Usually starts with soccer and not keeping score.Then tball.etc
Do you really want SG settling ? do you want him rewarded (acknowledged with a patch is ok)just for trying? Or do you want him , when he can't climb that cliff face to keep trying until he has that personal victory and climbs it after many attempts because that's what it takes, and the self esteem that comes with it.isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?

rgambs · August 2015

hedonist said:

rgambs said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.
gambs, it seems like more unnecessary divisiveness. True some may make that association, but given that many don't partake of FB or other similar sites doesn't take away that it's not necessarily or always about politics.

To assume that is as counterproductive as claiming those who feel X are part of Y group.

I think it is important to know who is peddling what sentiments.
On any topic there will be a range of political leanings that will agree and disagree, it rarely falls strictly left or right when you get into the details, but where a narrative originates is often sharply partisan.
Participation trophy philosophy (if you will) comes from the left, and the opposition comes from the rights.
Sometimes the origin makes all the difference, but even when the origin doesn't make much difference to the outcome of the discussion, that doesn't mean it should be ignored.
What you see as divisiveness, I see as just a piece of information that is part of the whole truth of a matter.

MayDay10 · August 2015

rr165892 said:
isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?

No

rec house sports leagues are about the trying and recreation. You said you wanted to play, mom/dad bought you a glove and paid for registration, and you damn well get off the video games and go to practice and finish the season.

Kids who typically are into sports fully understand winning/losing and watch professional sports. They get the concept. They want to win. If parents want to "stress" winning in the 9 year old house baseball league even more, then they can put more pressure on their kid to win.

I played in house leagues in some capacity nearly every year for various sports from age 6-16. Never won 1 house league championship. Always got a trophy of some sort. It didn't warp my concept of doing math at school, conducting business, performing athletic feats, getting through college on my own, or anything else.

Like has been stressed too... typically the championship teams get much better trophies... at least that is how it was in my day.

Gern Blansten · August 2015

rgambs said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
ABSOLUTELY it is a right-wing deal.
You and RR don't have Facebook, which leaves closed the window that most of us have into the lowest branches of right wing mentality. This gripe is often sandwiched between Islamophobia, gun rights BS, attacks on immigrants, pride in the rebel flag, and partisan hackery about Obama's debt.

I think there is a valid discussion around this topic, but the grandiose verbiage about the "pussification of America" invariably comes from the low cons.

I didn't realize that they didn't have facebook....totally agree here. It is a common theme among the right wingers.

pjhawks · August 2015

Kat said:
I'm pretty traditional. I have no problem with winners and top achievers receiving a trophy and participants receiving a certificate of participation. There could be a certificate of outstanding participation if people wanted another level of achievement. A ribbon would be ok too. A nicely framed certificate up on the wall is a beautiful memento of a childhood experience.

sure but when there are 50 or more and their is no distinguishing difference between the 50 meaning is lost if they are all the same. the reward and adulation for writing a paper that earns an A is and shouldn't be the same for those that write a C paper. yet in sports we've decided it is ok to reward them the same. why?

it's our generation who has gone to extremes to protect our children from any minor negative experience. lots of times i think we've gone too far.

rr165892 · August 2015

Great post above PJhawks.great example

rr165892 · August 2015

MayDay10 said:

rr165892 said:
isnt that the trophy? The achievement,not the trying?
No

rec house sports leagues are about the trying and recreation. You said you wanted to play, mom/dad bought you a glove and paid for registration, and you damn well get off the video games and go to practice and finish the season.

Kids who typically are into sports fully understand winning/losing and watch professional sports. They get the concept. They want to win. If parents want to "stress" winning in the 9 year old house baseball league even more, then they can put more pressure on their kid to win.

I played in house leagues in some capacity nearly every year for various sports from age 6-16. Never won 1 house league championship. Always got a trophy of some sort. It didn't warp my concept of doing math at school, conducting business, performing athletic feats, getting through college on my own, or anything else.

Like has been stressed too... typically the championship teams get much better trophies... at least that is how it was in my day.

May,I've also played on teams my whole life until adulthood and then I coached for years both baseball,hockey and football. On my 8 and under daughters hockey team along with other teams I coached years ago we did a Nice pizza party at end of year and then awards.They weren't participation per say they were individualized to the kid to highlight something they did well.build their confidence.Example -Chloe ,got best skater,another kid got most improved,another kid got leading scorer,Another best defenseman and so on.At least that puts a emphasis on personal achievement.
If it's 5 year olds who don't keep score and don't have goalies in soccer and at the end of the season you want to give out a little token that's fine.When it's a 12 year old who should be playing tackle football or fast pitch and is playing flag or coach pitch I don't think it should apply.

brianlux · August 2015

As a kid, one year in little league I beaned three batters in a row (I was our #1 starting pitcher). I never got a trophy for that. What's up with that!

PJ_Soul · August 2015

I think it's damaging for sure. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that kids get prizes just for showing up. I also think these little graduations they have for middle school and various random grades is stupid. I don't really think that getting through grade 6 is a special accomplishment unless we're talking about kids with mental disabilities. Getting through elementary school is a mandatory responsibility that doesn't deserve celebration IMO. I think all this over-congratulating is going to make kids think that everything they do is a lot more special than it is, which equals a bunch of entitled spoiled brats who expect to be rewarded for simply carrying out their responsibilities.
I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????

MayDay10 · August 2015

Harrison's kids are 6 and 8.

I wouldn't freak if there were no trophies for everybody... its the outrage against them that gets me... as if that is what is wrong with kids/USA. This is kids kicking a ball around. Worry about Math and reading.

IMO, in sports at a young age, social skills, teamwork, improving motor skills, and having fun are the #1-4 reasons. Kids want to win too. I remember crying after losing some games (even though I had a siiiick participation trophy coming my way). Winning carries a lot of personal gratification benefits as it is, the trophy is secondary (and winners get better ones).

What would make you prouder/more hopeful for the individual? If he came in spikes high and scored the winning run, arguing with the umpire, taunting/trash talking?
Or showing empathy for a weaker teammate or opponent by helping him/her out, maybe volunteering playing time, going easier on an opponent who has just gotten his first hit?

There are so many other important skills than "Grrrrrr grunt winning". You want competition/balls, have the kids show it when attacking their schoolwork.

And I'm a big sports guy too, and really hope my kids are decent enough to get a lot of fulfillment and maybe even college $.

PJ_Soul said:

I see the results of this already at work. Younger people have started whining about not getting enough pats on the back from their boss. They think they deserve special recognition just for doing an average job with their regular responsibilities. It's so stupid. Wtf do they think their pay cheques are????

It seems every generation has similar reservations about those generations after them. Pretty sure the world was supposed to end when our generation made it to now. Its just how it goes.

Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

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