Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

rr165892 · August 2015

After reading the story of Pro football player James Harrison who is making his young sons return a couple of participation trophies.It got me thinking this is kind of an interesting discussion,and I would love to know what you guys think after reading the story?
I personally think it's gotten out of control and is not properly preparing the youth of today for the real world were there is winners and losers and loosing means learning,refocusing and working harder until you do succeed.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/08/16/james-harrison-wont-let-his-sons-accept-participation-trophies/

Note- shout out to Indifference who posted this link in the NFL thread.

Gern Blansten · August 2015

I think it's ridiculous. I'm 47 and remember getting participation ribbons in elementary school for field day activities and participation trophies for baseball, football, etc.

It seems like a right wing pandering point to me.

hedonist · August 2015

Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attempt - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

JimmyV · August 2015

I think the problem arises in the difference between a ribbon and a trophy. Kids who participate in a competition getting some sort of commemorative memento - meaning a ribbon or a patch, something like that - makes sense to me. There is an accomplishment just in taking part, particularly for the kids who are not really good and still stick with it.

The trophy is a different. The trophy should go to those who have won. Not everyone is going to win, not everyone is going to get a trophy. That is a good life lesson for kids.

Gern Blansten · August 2015

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?

Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

hedonist · August 2015

And some people just see it for what it is. I see it for what it is.

And...of course...it's not a "fucking Nobel Peace Prize". It's still worth commenting on, no?

Yeah, it is.

Didn't see anything about society itself being affected (though not so far-fetched); apologies if I missed that particular passage.

rr165892 · August 2015

Really Gern ?Its part of a right wing agenda? Your fucking kidding me right?Do you have kids?

I raised 3. All achieved high levels of their respective activities(one was a div 1 college scholarship football player and ranked ice hockey player,one was accomplished vocalist who led her show choir and one toured Europe in a high level dance company.)
None of them were babied or mommy cuddled,all three went to college,and all three are on their way to successful careers.When they didn't do enough to win or succeed in their endeavors we encouraged more hard work,more dedication,more study,more lessons,more sweat and tears.They fell on their faces many times,but learned the lesson that anything good is earned not given.And are better people for it.

We are churning out a bunch of soft kids with freaky overprotective helicopter parents .Its sickening.And I'm sure democrats do the same as republicans.that was foolish Gern.

Hedo- dead on as always.My thoughts exactly

Jimmy- I'm also cool with at shirt,patch,sticker commerative mug etc,etc a nice token of the event or season.

pjhawks · August 2015

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.

have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

pjhawks · August 2015

pjhawks said:

Gern Blansten said:

hedonist said:
Good for him.

How working for something - achieving it - somehow became on a par or even lesser than the attemp - I don't get it.

I also don't get how right-wing BS enters into it ("pandering"? Really?). Has common sense, merit, lack of coddling, now become party-affiliated?
Unfortunately yes....maybe not in the example provided but right wing politicians use this example as part of America's "weakness"

As if we haven't been doing it for decades. A participation trophy is just that....a trophy for participating. It's a memory of the team you played for...it's not a fucking Nobel Peace Prize.

If a parent wants to refuse it that's fine with me but to say society is affected by participation trophies is just ridiculous in my opinion.
have to totally disagree with you. Achievement should be rewarded, not participation. HBO Real Sports this past month did a story on this and there is some scientific evidence and research that concludes that giving everyone a trophy is detrimental to achievement and also leads to entitlement.

I also think when people refer to 'everybody gets a trophy' it's not a literal meaning. it also refers to things like letting kids pass even if they don't deserve it, or giving a kid a school prize because 'its their turn' like everyone has to get one every year or telling children everything they do is great and wonderful whether it be behavior, art, etc. Having 'B' and 'C' teams because you don't want to cut any kids from a team. I get not wanting to discourage or hurt children but there is a point where always being positive is not a good thing either.

MayDay10 · August 2015

It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey and baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

From what I recall... usually the championship team would receive bigger trophies... as well as bragging rights in school and friends etc... then the better players would break off to travel and tournaments that were higher level and we needed to succeed to receive trophies.

Jason P · August 2015

I can see getting one for sports that don't keep score (outside of nutty parents) such as t-ball or biddy basketball.

That said, James Harrison is a crazy, scary MoFo who shows no mercy, much like Captain Insano.

Drowned Out · August 2015

I dunno....on the surface, it seems silly.....but what is wrong with giving kids something to take home and show off? I always got participation trophies in hockey as a kid. The winners got bigger, better trophies.
What are we teaching kids when we tell them repeatedly, 'it's just a game...the most important thing is to have fun'....then we sit here and talk about how it's meant to prepare them for competition in the real world? I mean...if we're talking high-level competitive sport, with kids who are projected to make a career out of the game....fine. But if it's rec-level sport, where's the harm? In the examples, did they get rid of different trophies for the winners? Probably not....so what's the big deal? I'm sure these decisions are not 100% based on being PC. I've not looked into it, but i'm assuming someone, somewhere looked into this and figured out that there were detrimental effects on kids over something that's supposed to be fun for them.
I can understand the right-wing agenda comment, and the flipside is that the right will always blame the left for the participation trophies

I mean....ya, we can learn lessons by falling on our faces and picking ourselves up, but can you not learn that lesson with or without a participation trophy? What happens to the kid who is playing for fun but NEVER wins anything, who is ALWAYS a 'looser'? Will they want to continue? Probably not....and they will probably FEEL like a loser as a result. That shouldn't be what kids take away from sport.

pjhawks · August 2015

MayDay10 said:
It's idiot mentality. Been hijacked by a lot of righties to further imply that America us degraded and youth are becoming worthless because of liberal philosophy.

I received participation trophies back in the 80s and I collected and cherished them. I also currently get medals for finishing marathons and such. I didn't turn into some softy loser... I actually competed at sports at a relatively moderate level... and still play amatuer ice hockey aND baseball.

Things like being afraid to keep score at a certain age is overkill... but stripping kids of 'participation trophies' because 'they didn't earn it'... then bragging about it is lame.

do you disagree with the philosophy that having an incentive to achieve can lead to more achievement as opposed to lack of incentive? Would you work as hard if you knew you couldn't be fired, your salary wouldn't change regardless of performance? Yes there are some whose pride wouldn't allow that attitude to prevail but without incentive many would not come close to their level of achievement when pushed...see how some union workers work these days in reference.

Is it just a coincidence that often times in sports it's mentioned that players perform best in the last year of their contracts when they are playing for their next one?

Jason P · August 2015

Here is James Harrison contributing the the NFL's concussion study ...

In 2012 67.5% of NFL players named Harrison the dirtiest player in the league. Mind you, Ray "I Stabbed a Man" Lewis was still in the league at the time.

Jason P · August 2015

My point being, whether you agree with him or not, you should look to James Harrison for advice on life.

Also, fuck the Steelers.

MayDay10 · August 2015

This is recreational activities. More kids are more likely to pee their pants than to hit for the cycle.

If parents want their kids to win, they can just act like assholes behind closed doors.

When the level gets higher and more premier/competive, then there is more emphasis/focus on winning.

House leagues it's recreation/social activity and the benefit is finish what they started and maybe improve.

hedonist · August 2015

When I was a kid, I used to take part in spelling bees. Not the big to-do, just classroom level shit. Worked hard, my dad and I used to read the dictionary together because we loved language and words, plus just for the fuck of it.

Many times I won - and was proud of it - but when I didn't, the thought of getting a "prize" just for taking part would've struck me as a pat on the head. It went without saying that the effort itself was worthy. Because something tangible wasn't given to me for that didn't negate my attempt - my MY mind. That is/was invaluable.

brianlux · August 2015

A lot of good but conflicting points here. When we finally get to the bottom of this mess I have no doubt we'll learn it's Obama's fault!

rr165892 · August 2015

Jason P said:
My point being, whether you agree with him or not, you should look to James Harrison for advice on life.

Also, fuck the Steelers.

I agree,fuck the steelers!

Drowned Out · August 2015

MayDay10 said:
This is recreational activities. More kids are more likely to pee their pants than to hit for the cycle.

If parents want their kids to win, they can just act like assholes behind closed doors.

When the level gets higher and more premier/competive, then there is more emphasis/focus on winning.

House leagues it's recreation/social activity and the benefit is finish what they started and maybe improve.

exactly. We can't bitch about parents being assholes from the stands, screaming 'win win win', then turn around and bitch that we are rewarding people who don't meet the standards of the assholes. When Larry Lester's buns get taped together because some kid keeps thinking about his father's attitude toward weakness, we have no one to blame but ourselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-ZyYtoKuUs

rr165892 · August 2015

brianlux said:
A lot of good but conflicting points here. When we finally get to the bottom of this mess I have no doubt we'll learn it's Obama's fault!

Do you think his girls aren't encouraged to get the best grades and excel at activities just like mom and dad? I would say DAD and mom can show them what a success is,and how to get their.

Trophies or awards just for participation and Is it damaging the youth of today?

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