Meanwhile back in Israel

Drowned Out · June 2015

What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you.
The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here?
How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia.
Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset.
If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho.
Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?

JohnnieBeBlue · June 2015

mickeyrat said:
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.

Not much better than fucking squatters.

So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.

JohnnieBeBlue · June 2015

Drowned Out said:
What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you.
The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here?
How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia.
Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset.
If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho.
Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?

So much propaganda and ignorance here. Not even worth answering. Keep yelling in your echo chamber.

Drowned Out · June 2015

k bye.

mickeyrat · June 2015

JohnnieBeBlue said:

mickeyrat said:
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.

Not much better than fucking squatters.
So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.

no history doesnt begin in 66 , what does is the last full year when israel stayed within it borders, since , you'd be hard pressed to find any map delineating these same borders.

and unless you are stalking me throughout the enitre internet , you have no idea what I am passionate about or comment on. so blow hard on that.

badbrains · June 2015

JohnnieBeBlue said:

Drowned Out said:
What's this about silence on other world atrocities?...that's a fantasy concocted by your victim complex, and projected onto anyone who doesn't agree with you.
The longer Israel hesitates, the more desperate Palestinians get, the more support Hamas gets. What is so difficult to understand here?
How did the withdrawal affect quality of life in Gaza? You talk as if the withdrawal resulted in an autonomous state with everything a person could ask for, and those ungrateful animals decided they'd rather have war than peace in their own little utopia.
Would it make you feel better if I said I don't support religious extremism? That includes those who use it to promote indiscriminate attacks, torture of gays, honor killings, arrest of political dissenters, and destroyers of holy sites....which btw, applies to Jewish extremists as well - many of whom reside in the Knesset.
If you go to the bottom of the previous page, you'll see an article about Jews destroying a holy site....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? Further back in the article, there are quotes I posted from knesset members which call for ethnic cleansing and denial of rights to palestinians....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? A dissenting politician is going to joint the current Gaza flotilla....a knesset commitee just voted to 'punish' him....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And your outrage over the first flotilla? 19 members of the US congress just sent a letter telling John Kerry to pressure ISrael to release Palestinian CHILD prisoners....where is your outrage for other world atrocities? And for the thousands of children killed by Israeli bombs n bullets over the last few years? Take a look in the mirror, genius. I can own the fact that I do not generally find much sympathy for Israel. Why? Because they have ZERO moral high ground. Other world atrocities, on the other hand, are not something I'm silent about. Do I speak out against every atrocity? Probably not. Do you? Nice try tho.
Obfuscate all you want with your claims of complexity, no one is buying that excuse any longer. The israeli government has zero interest in negotiations - pure stall tactics every time they come to the table. So we're left with anti-semetic BDS. According to the above, it looks like 50% of the world business community (who dealt with Israel before last year) is anti-semetic. Sucks for ISrael, eh?
So much propaganda and ignorance here. Not even worth answering. Keep yelling in your echo chamber.

What? Propaganda? Drowned out?? Ya right. You act like he's being paid to spread propaganda. Oh wait, that's what Israel does. My bad.

badbrains · June 2015

JohnnieBeBlue said:
You can keep Thurston Moore and the rest of the BDS anti-semites. And yes, BDS is antisemitism, plain and simple. We'll just have to see Bon Jovi instead. http://ukmediawatch.org/2015/06/08/bon-jovi-to-perform-in-israel-bdsfail-britishmediafail/

Def of Semite for you Johnny blue balls:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Semite

Drowned Out · June 2015

mickeyrat said:

JohnnieBeBlue said:

mickeyrat said:
Wait. Turning over more land? Look at a map of borders in 1966 then one of israels current version. Big fucking difference.

Not much better than fucking squatters.
So history begins in 1966? Why doesn't it begin in 1947? That is what Hamas is out to achieve. Great way to completely ignore my points though. See, it's a lot easier for you to act like an indignant blowhard when commenting from 5000 miles away.
and unless you are stalking me throughout the enitre internet , you have no idea what I am passionate about or comment on. so blow hard on that.

The guy has not posted in a single thread on the train that doesn't involve Israel. Not one. yet he accuses us of being singular in our criticism. I sometimes wonder if Israel's supporters all took some kind of course on doublethink....

mickeyrat · June 2015

ICC applies to Palestine as well , so there is that. but this is great news.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/6/25/palestinian-authority-submits-first-case-material-against-israel-to-icc.html?utm_content=nobylines&utm_campaign=ajam&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=SocialFlow

Palestinian Authority submits evidence of alleged Israeli crimes to ICC
The PA submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements and the treatment of Palestinian prisoners in Israel
June 25, 2015 1:29PM ET

The Palestinian Authority made its first submission of evidence of alleged Israeli war crimes to the International Criminal Court on Thursday, trying to speed up an ICC inquiry into abuses committed during last year's Gaza conflict.

The move may leave Israel in a quandary since it must decide whether to cooperate with the ICC investigation or find itself isolated as one of a very few countries that have declined to work with its prosecutors.

Israel denies allegations of war crimes by its forces during the 2014 Gaza war and accuses Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip, of atrocities in firing thousands of rockets at Israeli population centers.

Standing outside the ICC after meeting the court's chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki said he had submitted dossiers on the Gaza conflict, Israeli settlements on occupied land where Palestinians seek a state and treatment of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.
Thumbnail image for How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options?
How does ICC membership change Palestinian legal options?

As Palestine joins the international court, Al Jazeera explains the legal implications for both sides of the conflict

"Palestine is a test for the credibility of international mechanisms ... a test the world cannot afford to fail. Palestine has decided to seek justice, not vengeance," Maliki said.

An Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman said, "The Palestinian move is nothing more than an attempt to manipulate the ICC, and we hope that the prosecutor will not fall into the trap."

A cease-fire in August ended 50 days of fighting between Palestinian groups and Israel in which health officials said more than 2,100 Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed. Israel put the number of its dead at 67 soldiers and six civilians.

U.N. investigators said Monday that Israel and Palestinian groups committed grave abuses of international humanitarian law during the conflict that may amount to war crimes.

The Hague-based ICC, with no police force or enforcement powers of its own, is looking into alleged crimes by both sides of the conflict but cannot compel Israel to give it information.
Preliminary inquiry underway

The Palestinian Authority, which exercises limited self-rule in parts of the West Bank, joined the court in April and Bensouda has opened a preliminary investigation related to Gaza.

But Israel has substantial leverage over the course of ICC inquiries since court investigators can access sites in Gaza generally only via Israel since Gaza's one border crossing with Egypt is largely closed for security reasons. Israel also controls all crossings into the West Bank.

Maliki said he had agreed with prosecutors on a date for them to visit Palestinian territories, but did not say when. "It depends on their ability to enter Palestinian territory without problems," he said. ICC prosecutors told Reuters earlier they aimed to make field trips to both the Palestinian and Israeli sides but had not yet sought formal Israeli permission.

Israel disputed the U.N. report on possible war crimes, saying its forces had upheld the "highest international standards." Gaza's dominant Hamas group ignored the accusations against it and called for prosecutions of Israeli leaders.

As a non-member of the ICC, Israel is under no obligation to cooperate, regardless of international pressure to do so. But a boycott of prosecutors could put Israel in awkward company.

Even Russia, a foe of the ICC, has met court prosecutors related to their inquiry into alleged crimes in Russia's 2008 war with Georgia and over the events leading up to the 2014 overthrow of Ukraine's pro-Russian president.

Israel has been an outspoken critic of the ICC, saying the Palestinian Authority is not a state and should never have been admitted as an ICC member.

Israel also argues that the ICC inquiry will make it harder to reach a peace settlement with the Palestinians. Talks on a Palestinian state in territory Israel captured in a 1967 war collapsed last year, and there is little prospect of reviving them.

Reuters

mickeyrat · June 2015

then there is this.......Israeli response is disappointment in the "hasty" agreement. 15 years in the making is hasty?

http://www.timesofisrael.com/vatican-signs-treaty-recognizing-state-of-palestine/

The Vatican on Friday signed a historic accord with Palestine, two years after officially recognizing it as a state, in a move criticized by the Israeli Foreign Ministry.

The accord, a treaty covering the life and activity of the Church in Palestine, was the first since the Vatican recognized the Palestinian state in February 2013. The step was agreed in principle last month and condemned by Israel as a setback for the peace process.

The Foreign Ministry said Friday in response that it “regrets” the Vatican’s decision to sign the “one-sided” text.

“This hasty step damages the prospects for advancing a peace agreement, and harms the international effort to convince the PA to return to direct negotiations with Israel,” the Foreign Ministry said in a statement.

“We also regret the one-sided texts in the agreement which ignore the historic rights of the Jewish people in the Land of Israel and to the places holy to Judaism in Jerusalem. Israel cannot accept the unilateral determinations in the agreement which do not take into account Israel’s essential interests and the special historic status of the Jewish people in Jerusalem,” the statement added.

“The Palestinians continue to act unilaterally which distances us from any chance of holding direct dialogue,” said Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely.

“I regret that the Vatican decided to participate in a step that blatantly ignores the history of the Jewish people in Israel and Jerusalem. Any attempt by the Palestinians, or any other actor to undermine our historic right to Jerusalem and our country will met by staunch opposition by us,” she said.

The treaty makes clear that the Holy See has switched its diplomatic relations from the Palestinian Liberation Organization to the State of Palestine.

The Vatican had welcomed the decision by the UN General Assembly in 2012 to recognize a Palestinian state. But the treaty is the first legal document negotiated between the Holy See and the Palestinian state and constitutes an official recognition.

“Yes, it’s a recognition that the state exists,” said Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi last month.

Israeli officials criticized the Vatican announcement in May.

“We’re disappointed by the decision taken by the Holy See. We believe that such a decision is not conducive to bringing the Palestinians back to the negotiating table,” Foreign Ministry spokesperson Emmanuel Nahshon told The Times of Israel at the time.

“Israel will study the agreement and consider its next steps accordingly,” a brief statement from the ministry said.

The text of the treaty deals with essential aspects of the life and activity of the Catholic Church in Palestine, a Vatican statement said in May.

“Both parties agreed that the work of the Commission on the text of the Agreement has been concluded, and that the agreement will be submitted to the respective authorities for approval ahead of setting a date in the near future for the signing,” it noted.

The Vatican has been referring unofficially to the state of Palestine for at least a year.

During Pope Francis’ 2014 visit to the Holy Land, the Vatican’s official program referred to Abbas as the president of the “state of Palestine.” In the Vatican’s latest yearbook, the Palestinian ambassador to the Holy See is listed as representing “Palestine (state of).”

The Vatican’s foreign minister, Monsignor Antoine Camilleri, acknowledged the change in status, given that the treaty was initially inked with the PLO and is now being finalized with the “state of Palestine.” But he said the shift was simply in line with the Holy See’s position.

The Holy See clearly tried to underplay the development, suggesting that its 2012 press statement welcoming the UN vote constituted its first official recognition. Nowhere in that statement does the Vatican say it recognizes the state of Palestine, and the Holy See couldn’t vote for the UN resolution because it doesn’t have voting rights at the General Assembly.

The 2012 UN vote recognized Palestine as a non-member observer state, made up of the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war.

The Palestinians celebrated the vote as a milestone in their quest for international recognition. Most countries in Africa, Asia and South America have individually recognized Palestine. In Western Europe, Sweden took the step last year, while several parliaments have approved non-binding motions urging recognition.

This isn’t the first time that the Vatican under Francis has taken diplomatic moves knowing that it would please some quarters and ruffle feathers elsewhere: Just last month, he referred to the slaughter of Armenians by Turkish Ottomans a century ago as a “genocide,” prompting Turkey to recall its ambassador.

Raphael Ahren, AP contributed to this report.

badbrains · June 2015

Thanks for posting Mickey, great read. Lots of info. No surprise Israel sees this as a one sided. Guess they now know how the Palestinians feel whenever the U.S. Talks or supports Israel. One sided

mickeyrat · June 2015

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/06/canadian-aboriginal-activist-stands-israel-gaza-150626073951799.html

badbrains · June 2015

mickeyrat said:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/06/canadian-aboriginal-activist-stands-israel-gaza-150626073951799.html

I hope this doesn't cause another assault. Anything to give a reason for more killings. I still ant understand how Israel says they're not occupying gaza yet won't even let anyone in? How is that even possible. Seriously, are they above the law? Rhetorical question.

benjs · June 2015

I'm curious to see what people think about this interview between Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic, and Yair Lapid, of Netanyahu's opposition. There are parts of this I agree with, and parts of this I disagree with. Overall, I think it would be a hugely refreshing shift from Netanyahu's government if Lapid was in office. Things could even conceivably change.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/06/Israel-Yair-Lapid-Palestinians-Iran/396803/

mickeyrat · June 2015

badbrains said:

mickeyrat said:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/06/canadian-aboriginal-activist-stands-israel-gaza-150626073951799.html
I hope this doesn't cause another assault. Anything to give a reason for more killings. I still ant understand how Israel says they're not occupying gaza yet won't even let anyone in? How is that even possible. Seriously, are they above the law? Rhetorical question.

as I understood one member of the knesset will be aboard one of the boats.

badbrains · June 2015

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/world/middleeast/26icc.html?_r=0&referrer=

mickeyrat · July 2015

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/07/united-church-christ-divest-israel-boycott-occupation-150701001231111.html

mickeyrat · July 2015

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/06/israel-closes-tv-station-palestinian-identity-150621120713478.html

mickeyrat · July 2015

Amnesty International report says war crimes by Israel in 2014

benjs · July 2015

mickeyrat said:
Amnesty International report says war crimes by Israel in 2014

Shocker.

Meanwhile back in Israel

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