Waco-How Long Before....................

Thirty Bills Unpaid · May 2015

rgambs said:

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Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The term dirtbags comes to mind first with my vernacular.

Does it matter? Call these assholes whatever you want. I don't care.

Issue aside... I get a kick out of how people take exception to how we describe people who commit crimes. I suppose some would prefer that in the future, we call people who commit crimes something like 'a human being with a misfortunate upbringing who made a bad error as a result of that and now needs our support'.
Yes that is exactly what people would prefer.
SMFH

You may not care what these asshole get called, but the racial disparity in applying some terms matters to some people.
Has it been clearly established that 'thug' is a racist term? I thought it has only been established in the minds of some. I thought that the term was not exclusive for criminals of the black skinned variety. I thought that cases were presented that showed the term appropriately used for criminals of the white skinned variety by major media sources. I also thought that many here typically thought of 'thug' as the- get this now- stereotypical white mobster.
"Element" isn't a racist term either, and yet it has been used to disparage a certain race on these very boards. This is bigger than the word thug, as crime statistics continually show.
You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that black and white crime is reported in the same way if you wish.

I agree there is an obvious disparity. I disagree that the term 'thug' is code talk for a nation of racists to demean a race.

callen · May 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

rgambs said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:
The term dirtbags comes to mind first with my vernacular.

Does it matter? Call these assholes whatever you want. I don't care.

Issue aside... I get a kick out of how people take exception to how we describe people who commit crimes. I suppose some would prefer that in the future, we call people who commit crimes something like 'a human being with a misfortunate upbringing who made a bad error as a result of that and now needs our support'.
Yes that is exactly what people would prefer.
SMFH

You may not care what these asshole get called, but the racial disparity in applying some terms matters to some people.
Has it been clearly established that 'thug' is a racist term? I thought it has only been established in the minds of some. I thought that the term was not exclusive for criminals of the black skinned variety. I thought that cases were presented that showed the term appropriately used for criminals of the white skinned variety by major media sources. I also thought that many here typically thought of 'thug' as the- get this now- stereotypical white mobster.
"Element" isn't a racist term either, and yet it has been used to disparage a certain race on these very boards. This is bigger than the word thug, as crime statistics continually show.
You can bury your head in the sand and pretend that black and white crime is reported in the same way if you wish.
I agree there is an obvious disparity. I disagree that the term 'thug' is code talk for a nation of racists to demean a race.

Depends on context. Simple.

rgambs · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

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rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
I think this belongs in the rejected thread ideas.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is not valid.
The national conversation about this incident is proof of the way black crime is treated differently. Where is the outrage about the white crime epidemic?

"As many as 3,172 white people were killed in 2011 -- and 2,630 of them lost their lives at the hands of another white person. This is compared to 2,695 black people, 2,447 of whom were killed by another black person."

"Whites lead when it comes to gang violence too: 53.3 percent of gang-related murders between 1980 and 2008 were committed by white people, according to the Justice Department, compared to 42.2 percent committed by blacks. Victims of gang-related violence were also mostly white."

Where are the conversations about white culture and violence, the conversations about broken families, and where is Fox News with the throwing around of the term "thug"?
According to your statistics, 91% of black people are killed by other blacks as opposed to 82% of whites. So, what's your argument again?

That's your takeaway? An edge in percentage of same-race crime? Ignoring the national conversation and the other aspects of the statistics to point out one factor that is only tangentially relevant?

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

Halifax2TheMax · May 2015

Apparently, rgambs and I aren't the only ones pondering this question.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/18/opinions/kohn-biker-shooting-waco/index.html

hedonist · May 2015

I'm sure there are many ponderers. It's not a bad thing.

Anyway, I found this somewhat over the top:

One of the most distinct characteristics of white privilege is the privilege to be unique. When white people commit violent acts, they are treated as aberrations, slips described with adjectives that show they are unusual and in no way representative of the broader racial group to which they belong.

People will see what they want, and ascribe motives in the same way.

Godfather. · May 2015

find out where they hold church meetings and let them know how displeased you are with them and then tell them about the asshole/dirtbag/thug thing and Im sure they would listen and take your advice on how to be a better person.
in fact you can pull over any biker with a patch on his back and tell them what you think of "biker gangs" I'm sure they would love your input on social behavier and the dos and don'ts of public gatherings, don't be shy they don't bite and when you're finished come on back and tell us how you made out.

Godfather.

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

If it makes anyone feel better, I think they are thugs.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

Godfather. · May 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:
to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

actually we are waiting to see who's bullets they were, I'm not saying the club members handled thier dispute the right or wrong way but the police knew about the meeting that was taking place amung the many clubs and positioned themselfs out side and after one club member pulled a gun(during a knife fight) the ATF I believe it was started to fire with automatic weapons, the bodies in the morge are awaiting autopoies for cause of death and bullet I.D, and the one club that was not invited showed up anyway and that's when the problem started I think, but you are right it if was black panther meeting Al Sharpton would be all over the white police officers for hate crimes..even if some of the club members are/were mexican bikers it don't matter to Al unless they're black.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

Godfather. said:

show previous quotes
HughFreakingDillon said:
to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........
actually we are waiting to see who's bullets they were, I'm not saying the club members handled thier dispute the right or wrong way but the police knew about the meeting that was taking place amung the many clubs and positioned themselfs out side and after one club member pulled a gun(during a knife fight) the ATF I believe it was started to fire with automatic weapons, the bodies in the morge are awaiting autopoies for cause of death and bullet I.D, and the one club that was not invited showed up anyway and that's when the problem started I think, but you are right it if was black panther meeting Al Sharpton would be all over the white police officers for hate crimes..even if some of the club members are/were mexican bikers it don't matter to Al unless they're black.

Godfather.

I know we are waiting to see whose bullets they were. I think you may have misread my post.

OMGkatwoman · May 2015

^^^ We haven't heard any mention of the ATF firing automatic weapons, on the news report here. If it turns out that any of the 1%-ters cause of death was due to ATF fire, holy hell is gonna break loose worse than what's already brewing. Here's a link to what the Former Hells Angel's President says about this mess.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/clip/11510075/former-minn-hells-angels-leader-notes-parallels-in-waco

rgambs · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?

No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.

rgambs · May 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:
to put this in perspective....had it been 9 black guys killed in this.....we wouldn't be patiently waiting to see whose bullets they were.........

Great point!

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.

Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?

this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

If I'm not mistaken, many of the dead were shot by the police. What am I missing?

rgambs · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?

Take the word "biker" out and re-read your statement... Then think about the fact that 53.3% of gang murders are committed by whites... More than blacks..
What are you missing?
The better question is what are you getting?

HughFreakingDillon · May 2015

Last-12-Exit said:

show previous quotes
HughFreakingDillon said:

Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
this is the issue. there really is no basis for comparison. the cultural epidemic is not just the level of crime, it is how it is reacted to by law enforcement.

If I'm not mistaken, many of the dead were shot by the police. What am I missing?

last I read, that was still unknown. source?

Last-12-Exit · May 2015

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Last-12-Exit said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:
That is the basis of your argument, is it not?
No, the basis of the argument is the level of crime which is considered a cultural epidemic worthy of national outrage in blacks, yet is ignored as a cultural issue in whites.
Are white biker gang shootings a national epidemic? Should there be more outrage for this?
Take the word "biker" out and re-read your statement... Then think about the fact that 53.3% of gang murders are committed by whites... More than blacks..
What are you missing?
The better question is what are you getting?

Source? Not that I don't believe you, but it seems high.

Waco-How Long Before....................

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