I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
You claimed to see an inherent racial bias here on these boards. Not in this country, not in this world, but here are on these boards. It is a new spin on a very old trick, and an easy way to get around using terms like racist and racism. Conservatives during the cold war more often than not didn't brand someone a Communist. Instead they painted them with the pink brush, accused them of having sympathies, of having the wrong friends, of being a fellow traveler, of being anti-American, etc. But make no mistake, they were indeed calling the people they slandered Communists. They didn't need to use the terms to do the damage.
As I said earlier, this is a slippery slope we are now on. We're not calling people racists, we're just pointing out their inherent racial bias. We're not hearing them use racial language, we're just projecting our own politics onto their words and deciding it is racial. That is dangerous. That it is the left now doing it instead of the right does not make it any less so.
Not meaning to attack you personally. This is not about one person or one exchange. This "thug" issue hit a tipping point yesterday with Kat announcing the mods were going to be judging what each of us mean when we use the word. "Thug" as a racial code has become an institutionalized fact now on these boards. It is a loss for free speech and a victory for political correctness. That troubles me greatly.
You haven't? Have you read through the Police Abuse or Trayvon Martin threads? Do you think these boards are somehow exempt from the bias or racism that exists in our society? And it's not just about these boards or this forum. It's prevelant throughout the media, hence my observation. Go back and read the salon piece. It was much more eloquently expressed than I could ever be. Again, I don't have a problem with the word thug being used to describe a person or group of people. I just prefer that the same terminology be used when describing different groups of people. No offense taken Jimmy V as I don't feel attacked as much as misunderstood, maybe? Have a great weekend as I'll be in bean town for a Sox game, North End culinary delights and an overdose of Mike's Pastery.
It has been pointed out that the term 'thug' has been used by prominent people in prominent media sources to describe white rioters (in Vancouver after the Stanley Cup loss). So, it is used to describe behavior and is not exclusively reserved for black people as much as some keep insisting.
I guess you are probably keeping score though? If so, then don't compare a biker gang conflict with citizens looting their neighborhoods like in Vancouver or Baltimore. They are hardly the same. If a couple bikers shakedown some guy off the street, they could appropriately be called thugs. If rival gangs violently clash, there are more appropriate terms we should use without the fear of being labelled a racist (in a veiled manner mind you).
The debate whether 'thug' is the new 'N' word is ridiculous. In my mind, branding anyone who isn't eagerly buying in to the notion as a racist- or an idiot with their head up their ass- is self righteous and just a little naive.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Can you clarify this for me Godfather? Do you mean that it was a slaughter of bikers by police, or a slaughter of bikers by bikers?
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
You claimed to see an inherent racial bias here on these boards. Not in this country, not in this world, but here are on these boards. It is a new spin on a very old trick, and an easy way to get around using terms like racist and racism. Conservatives during the cold war more often than not didn't brand someone a Communist. Instead they painted them with the pink brush, accused them of having sympathies, of having the wrong friends, of being a fellow traveler, of being anti-American, etc. But make no mistake, they were indeed calling the people they slandered Communists. They didn't need to use the terms to do the damage.
As I said earlier, this is a slippery slope we are now on. We're not calling people racists, we're just pointing out their inherent racial bias. We're not hearing them use racial language, we're just projecting our own politics onto their words and deciding it is racial. That is dangerous. That it is the left now doing it instead of the right does not make it any less so.
Not meaning to attack you personally. This is not about one person or one exchange. This "thug" issue hit a tipping point yesterday with Kat announcing the mods were going to be judging what each of us mean when we use the word. "Thug" as a racial code has become an institutionalized fact now on these boards. It is a loss for free speech and a victory for political correctness. That troubles me greatly.
You haven't? Have you read through the Police Abuse or Trayvon Martin threads? Do you think these boards are somehow exempt from the bias or racism that exists in our society? And it's not just about these boards or this forum. It's prevelant throughout the media, hence my observation. Go back and read the salon piece. It was much more eloquently expressed than I could ever be. Again, I don't have a problem with the word thug being used to describe a person or group of people. I just prefer that the same terminology be used when describing different groups of people. No offense taken Jimmy V as I don't feel attacked as much as misunderstood, maybe? Have a great weekend as I'll be in bean town for a Sox game, North End culinary delights and an overdose of Mike's Pastery.
I don't really see this inherent racial bias here, no. Are there examples of racial bias? Absolutely. Are there posts that tip-toe up to the line and some that even cross it? Probably yes. But is racial bias inherent to this board? You lose me there.
The problem with the Salon piece, much like the discussion here in this thread, is that it is trying to shoehorn an issue that doesn't fit into a discussion where it doesn't belong. No one should be surprised that this incident in Texas was received differently than the events in Baltimore. However, to pretend race is the sole or even primary reason why is at best incorrect and at worse dishonest. They were vastly different incidents.
These bikers didn't look to burn the city down, nor were there similar incidents in recent months to point back to. Baltimore came on the heels of Ferguson. Twin Peaks came on the heels of...what? From the article:
"Most white citizens will insist that this was just an isolated incident, even though the gangs were already under surveillance for consistent participation in criminal activity."
Salon seriously makes the case that white people are enjoying white privilege and fooling themselves into thinking this was an isolated incident, because many of the bikers were under police surveillance. Come again? Being under surveillance and engaging in shootouts with police in crowded parking lots are far from the same thing.
Maybe there is a point to be made about language. Maybe there isn't. Either way, the Twin Peaks incident is a poor example to put forward.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
Shouldn't we jump to the defense of any victim?
Many don't wait to determine if there is a victim. Not everyone killed by a cop is. Remember all the misinformation regarding Michael Brown? He was chased down the street, he was shot in the back, he was on his knees surrendering, etc. Victims are sometimes created, cops sometimes condemned, and people fight hard to backup the original conclusion they jumped to.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
Shouldn't we jump to the defense of any victim?
'Any' victim? Not in my mind.
If a victim contributed to their demise... I'm not sure why we would jump to their defence? We can feel badly for them and recognize the events in their life that led them to their unfortunate end, but I don't think it's appropriate to defend someone who dies at the hands of an officer after they assaulted the officer and ultimately created their misfortune.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
Shouldn't we jump to the defense of any victim?
'Any' victim? Not in my mind.
If a victim contributed to their demise... I'm not sure why we would jump to their defence? We can feel badly for them and recognize the events in their life that led them to their unfortunate end, but I don't think it's appropriate to defend someone who dies at the hands of an officer after they assaulted the officer and ultimately created their misfortune.
It might depend on how you define "victim". Is a victim simply an injured or killed party or someone who has suffered an injustice? I'm guessing dignin was referring to the latter.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
Shouldn't we jump to the defense of any victim?
'Any' victim? Not in my mind.
If a victim contributed to their demise... I'm not sure why we would jump to their defence? We can feel badly for them and recognize the events in their life that led them to their unfortunate end, but I don't think it's appropriate to defend someone who dies at the hands of an officer after they assaulted the officer and ultimately created their misfortune.
It might depend on how you define "victim". Is a victim simply an injured or killed party or someone who has suffered an injustice? I'm guessing dignin was referring to the latter.
Then no question.
But I have the feeling he had a broader scope in mind.
* Regardless, the difference of opinion is great. I skim the lounge every now and then. I read of your lonely time with Letterman serving as a companion. It made me reflect on some portions of my life. Tough times are never fun, but they ultimately end up being part of the formula.
So, when a SINGLE, UNARMED black man resists arrests and gets shot to death, the cop was just doing his job, and you shouldn't resist or that's what happens... When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
Godfather.
From all I've read, the cops were outstanding.
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
Shouldn't we jump to the defense of any victim?
'Any' victim? Not in my mind.
If a victim contributed to their demise... I'm not sure why we would jump to their defence? We can feel badly for them and recognize the events in their life that led them to their unfortunate end, but I don't think it's appropriate to defend someone who dies at the hands of an officer after they assaulted the officer and ultimately created their misfortune.
It might depend on how you define "victim". Is a victim simply an injured or killed party or someone who has suffered an injustice? I'm guessing dignin was referring to the latter.
Then no question.
But I have the feeling he had a broader scope in mind.
* Regardless, the difference of opinion is great. I skim the lounge every now and then. I read of your lonely time with Letterman serving as a companion. It made me reflect on some portions of my life. Tough times are never fun, but they ultimately end up being part of the formula.
Oh, for sure. I know it's a cliche, but as long as you survive them, it's the tough times that build character and we do best when we own that. But that said, it's helpful to give and receive empathy (not coddling or enabling, but sincere empathy), especially when someone is victimized in the harshest sense of the word.
How did we veer in Psychology 101, LOL?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Can you clarify this for me Godfather? Do you mean that it was a slaughter of bikers by police, or a slaughter of bikers by bikers?
yes......deep down inside EVERYBODY has a dislike or non-trust for a different group of people .........BUT it's how you treat people that makes everything o.k..right ? if we are honest with our selfs and each other we are all guilty of racism so it's better lie and tell people how good and pure we are, turn around and look at the guy or gal next you on the bus or on the street, listen to them talk, notice how they look at you, are thier habbits and reasoning different than yours ?(well they must be pretty fucked up right ? )....but your not a racist ! because it's only that one person...and thier friends..right ? so your still pure at heart and you understand that there is no difference between you and the guy on the bus or on the street even if they did just look at you like you might be thier next victim with hate in thier eyes....it's the dirty truth that nobody wants to talk about..so we lie to each other and our selfs so we can point our fingers at someone else (who's not willing to lie) and call them a racist.
yes......deep down inside EVERYBODY has a dislike or non-trust for a different group of people .........BUT it's how you treat people that makes everything o.k..right ? if we are honest with our selfs and each other we are all guilty of racism so it's better lie and tell people how good and pure we are, turn around and look at the guy or gal next you on the bus or on the street, listen to them talk, notice how they look at you, are thier habbits and reasoning different than yours ?(well they must be pretty fucked up right ? )....but your not a racist ! because it's only that one person...and thier friends..right ? so your still pure at heart and you understand that there is no difference between you and the guy on the bus or on the street even if they did just look at you like you might be thier next victim with hate in thier eyes....it's the dirty truth that nobody wants to talk about..so we lie to each other and our selfs so we can point our fingers at someone else (who's not willing to lie) and call them a racist.
I'd be more open to the idea that everyone holds a prejudice or two than I am to the convenient notion that everyone is a little bit racist. You can be prejudice against gays, women, liberals, southerners, nerds, sports fans, the homeless, cat people, dog lovers, etc. And that prejudice can be as simple as prejudging them in some way. Doesn't mean you hate anyone, and it doesn't mean you are harboring an "inherent racial bias."
I'd be more open to the idea that everyone holds a prejudice or two than I am to the convenient notion that everyone is a little bit racist. You can be prejudice against gays, women, liberals, southerners, nerds, sports fans, the homeless, cat people, dog lovers, etc. And that prejudice can be as simple as prejudging them in some way. Doesn't mean you hate anyone, and it doesn't mean you are harboring an "inherent racial bias."
The piece that last12exit posted showed legitimate scientific evidence of inherent racial bias. Studies of all sorts find it over and over again, if you two don't want to accept it, it doesn't change reality.
I'd be more open to the idea that everyone holds a prejudice or two than I am to the convenient notion that everyone is a little bit racist. You can be prejudice against gays, women, liberals, southerners, nerds, sports fans, the homeless, cat people, dog lovers, etc. And that prejudice can be as simple as prejudging them in some way. Doesn't mean you hate anyone, and it doesn't mean you are harboring an "inherent racial bias."
The piece that last12exit posted showed legitimate scientific evidence of inherent racial bias. Studies of all sorts find it over and over again, if you two don't want to accept it, it doesn't change reality.
Studies of course are never wrong. How dare anyone disagree.
I'd be more open to the idea that everyone holds a prejudice or two than I am to the convenient notion that everyone is a little bit racist. You can be prejudice against gays, women, liberals, southerners, nerds, sports fans, the homeless, cat people, dog lovers, etc. And that prejudice can be as simple as prejudging them in some way. Doesn't mean you hate anyone, and it doesn't mean you are harboring an "inherent racial bias."
The piece that last12exit posted showed legitimate scientific evidence of inherent racial bias. Studies of all sorts find it over and over again, if you two don't want to accept it, it doesn't change reality.
Studies of course are never wrong. How dare anyone disagree.
Don't want to change your views, just discredit the studies...not based on methodology or credibility or anything, just based on general distrust of studies. Again, disagree all you like, reality doesn't care.
I'd be more open to the idea that everyone holds a prejudice or two than I am to the convenient notion that everyone is a little bit racist. You can be prejudice against gays, women, liberals, southerners, nerds, sports fans, the homeless, cat people, dog lovers, etc. And that prejudice can be as simple as prejudging them in some way. Doesn't mean you hate anyone, and it doesn't mean you are harboring an "inherent racial bias."
The piece that last12exit posted showed legitimate scientific evidence of inherent racial bias. Studies of all sorts find it over and over again, if you two don't want to accept it, it doesn't change reality.
Studies of course are never wrong. How dare anyone disagree.
Convenient.
I continue to argue that pretending everyone is a little bit racist is convenience. When everyone is racist we can see racism everywhere. Makes it much easier to label people.
Don't want to change your views, just discredit the studies...not based on methodology or credibility or anything, just based on general distrust of studies. Again, disagree all you like, reality doesn't care.
You create a new eggshell term for people to tip-toe around, label people you don't like using it racists for doing so, and then claim your political views are "reality"? OK dude. You have a certain view of the world. Not everyone agrees. THAT is reality.
Don't want to change your views, just discredit the studies...not based on methodology or credibility or anything, just based on general distrust of studies. Again, disagree all you like, reality doesn't care.
You create a new eggshell term for people to tip-toe around, label people you don't like using it racists for doing so, and then claim your political views are "reality"? OK dude. You have a certain view of the world. Not everyone agrees. THAT is reality.
It doesn't matter if people agree or not, reality is not subjective, it is objective. This isn't about political views, it is about verifiable scientific results. Again and again, racial bias has been proven from childhood through adulthood in well-designed and diverse study methodologies. Racial bias is real, deal with it.
Comments
I guess you are probably keeping score though? If so, then don't compare a biker gang conflict with citizens looting their neighborhoods like in Vancouver or Baltimore. They are hardly the same. If a couple bikers shakedown some guy off the street, they could appropriately be called thugs. If rival gangs violently clash, there are more appropriate terms we should use without the fear of being labelled a racist (in a veiled manner mind you).
The debate whether 'thug' is the new 'N' word is ridiculous. In my mind, branding anyone who isn't eagerly buying in to the notion as a racist- or an idiot with their head up their ass- is self righteous and just a little naive.
Purple Heart Recipient with NO criminal record, and reportedly not a member of any outlaw motorcycle gang. Sad times indeed!
The problem with the Salon piece, much like the discussion here in this thread, is that it is trying to shoehorn an issue that doesn't fit into a discussion where it doesn't belong. No one should be surprised that this incident in Texas was received differently than the events in Baltimore. However, to pretend race is the sole or even primary reason why is at best incorrect and at worse dishonest. They were vastly different incidents.
These bikers didn't look to burn the city down, nor were there similar incidents in recent months to point back to. Baltimore came on the heels of Ferguson. Twin Peaks came on the heels of...what? From the article:
"Most white citizens will insist that this was just an isolated incident, even though the gangs were already under surveillance for consistent participation in criminal activity."
Salon seriously makes the case that white people are enjoying white privilege and fooling themselves into thinking this was an isolated incident, because many of the bikers were under police surveillance. Come again? Being under surveillance and engaging in shootouts with police in crowded parking lots are far from the same thing.
Maybe there is a point to be made about language. Maybe there isn't. Either way, the Twin Peaks incident is a poor example to put forward.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Key is recognizing it and attempting to see through it to treat others equally. Very hard to do.
When HUNDREDS of ARMED bikers in an out of control brawl resist arrest and a few get shot to death, the cops fucked up and it was a slaughter.
I can't be the only one who sees the bias that's being denied on blatant display here...
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/opinion/nicholas-kristof-is-everyone-a-little-bit-racist.html
Just as you jump to the defence of every black victim regardless of circumstances... Godfather is entitled to his bias as well. Both are blatant: recognize yours as well.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If a victim contributed to their demise... I'm not sure why we would jump to their defence? We can feel badly for them and recognize the events in their life that led them to their unfortunate end, but I don't think it's appropriate to defend someone who dies at the hands of an officer after they assaulted the officer and ultimately created their misfortune.
But I have the feeling he had a broader scope in mind.
* Regardless, the difference of opinion is great. I skim the lounge every now and then. I read of your lonely time with Letterman serving as a companion. It made me reflect on some portions of my life. Tough times are never fun, but they ultimately end up being part of the formula.
http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/241057/racism-without-racists/p1
How did we veer in Psychology 101, LOL?
Godfather.
if we are honest with our selfs and each other we are all guilty of racism so it's better lie and tell people how good and pure we are, turn around and look at the guy or gal next you on the bus or on the street, listen to them talk, notice how they look at you, are thier habbits and reasoning different than yours ?(well they must be pretty fucked up right ? )....but your not a racist ! because it's only that one person...and thier friends..right ? so your still pure at heart and you understand that there is no difference between you and the guy on the bus or on the street even if they did just look at you like you might be thier next victim with hate in thier eyes....it's the dirty truth that nobody wants to talk about..so we lie to each other and our selfs so we can point our fingers at someone else (who's not willing to lie) and call them a racist.
Godfather.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Again, disagree all you like, reality doesn't care.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."