White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
You clearly missed the point of the article. I suggest that you re-read it and then go back and watch the video posted by Mr. Lux. That may help you to better understand what the article is pointing out.
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
I'm suggesting that it be discussed when relevant. It certainly isn't in the middle of a biker thug shootout.
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
I'm suggesting that it be discussed when relevant. It certainly isn't in the middle of a biker thug shootout.
The thread isn't about the shootout, it's about the medias response to the shootout.
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
I'm suggesting that it be discussed when relevant. It certainly isn't in the middle of a biker thug shootout.
The thread isn't about the shootout, it's about the medias response to the shootout.
You are missing the entire point.
No, I am not. I think you are looking for problems that aren't there. You guys are upset because Bill oreilly and wolf Blitzer didn't refer to these guys as thugs. Why are you comparing a biker shootout and the media's response to Michael Brown and trayvon Martin? Why should the media use the same terminology? Theyre completely different incidents.
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
I'm suggesting that it be discussed when relevant. It certainly isn't in the middle of a biker thug shootout.
The thread isn't about the shootout, it's about the medias response to the shootout.
You are missing the entire point.
No, I am not. I think you are looking for problems that aren't there. You guys are upset because Bill oreilly and wolf Blitzer didn't refer to these guys as thugs. Why are you comparing a biker shootout and the media's response to Michael Brown and trayvon Martin? Why should the media use the same terminology? Theyre completely different incidents.
But thug is a word that applies equally to both incidents, way way more so for Waco than Trayvon.
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
What are the shocking realities in this article? The police didn't respond in riot gear. That's the argument? You want CNN and Fox to label these biker gangs as thugs? Ok.
Let's keep race in the news by making up a racial divide in every news worthy story.
The racial divide is real. Are you suggesting it be ignored?
I'm suggesting that it be discussed when relevant. It certainly isn't in the middle of a biker thug shootout.
The thread isn't about the shootout, it's about the medias response to the shootout.
You are missing the entire point.
No, I am not. I think you are looking for problems that aren't there. You guys are upset because Bill oreilly and wolf Blitzer didn't refer to these guys as thugs. Why are you comparing a biker shootout and the media's response to Michael Brown and trayvon Martin? Why should the media use the same terminology? Theyre completely different incidents.
But thug is a word that applies equally to both incidents, way way more so for Waco than Trayvon.
Ok, and?? That doesn't make me or anyone else debating with you here a racist as others have eluded.
I guess it's just me that sees the inherent racial bias in the media and on these boards.
Many if not most see it.
So you think I'm racist?
Rephrased question out of curiosity: Do you think I'm a racist?
I don't think you are racist. In fact, I remember a post about your background and the people you grew up around, that shows your character. It's easy for a hippy dippy's child to not be racist, there's nothing praise-worthy in that, but when you grow up around racist people it is admirable to advance beyond such foolishness with reason and compassion. Rural Ohio presented me with a similar scenario, but I had the hippy parents.
I do think that you are dismissive of race issues, not out of racist feelings, but out of apathy. That's just my opinion of course. Personally, my connection to openly racist people reminds me constantly that race issues are real and serious, and when I see newscasters with the same tone and content it pissed me off.
I guess it's just me that sees the inherent racial bias in the media and on these boards.
Many if not most see it.
So you think I'm racist?
Rephrased question out of curiosity: Do you think I'm a racist?
I don't think you are racist. In fact, I remember a post about your background and the people you grew up around, that shows your character. It's easy for a hippy dippy's child to not be racist, there's nothing praise-worthy in that, but when you grow up around racist people it is admirable to advance beyond such foolishness with reason and compassion. Rural Ohio presented me with a similar scenario, but I had the hippy parents.
I do think that you are dismissive of race issues, not out of racist feelings, but out of apathy. That's just my opinion of course. Personally, my connection to openly racist people reminds me constantly that race issues are real and serious, and when I see newscasters with the same tone and content it pissed me off.
I certainly don't dismiss race issues when they come up. I just don't feel like there is a race issue in this story. There are more important problems to worry about than the media not calling these guys thugs.
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,772
How the word "thug" will be moderated: If, in your comment, the word thug is interchangeable with criminal, no problem. If it isn't, it could be a big problem. The comment will be evaluated and it will be determined if a racial line appears to be crossed since bigoted comments are never ok here. We'll do the best we can in the evaluation so don't approach that line and there won't be consequences that no one wants, ok? Thanks. It's a changing world and the meaning of words does change. I hope this helps. Have a great weekend, all.
How the word "thug" will be moderated: If, in your comment, the word thug is interchangeable with criminal, no problem. If it isn't, it could be a big problem. The comment will be evaluated and it will be determined if a racial line appears to be crossed since bigoted comments are never ok here. We'll do the best we can in the evaluation so don't approach that line and there won't be consequences that no one wants, ok? Thanks. It's a changing world and the meaning of words does change. I hope this helps. Have a great weekend, all.
I haven't seen anyone cross that line in this thread. Looks like somebody got offended. Thanks for the clarification?
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,757
How the word "thug" will be moderated: If, in your comment, the word thug is interchangeable with criminal, no problem. If it isn't, it could be a big problem. The comment will be evaluated and it will be determined if a racial line appears to be crossed since bigoted comments are never ok here. We'll do the best we can in the evaluation so don't approach that line and there won't be consequences that no one wants, ok? Thanks. It's a changing world and the meaning of words does change. I hope this helps. Have a great weekend, all.
It surprises me that the word "thug" is an issue. I always thought the word "thug" meant "criminal", at least that's how it was used in the TV shows I grew up with, you know... shows like "Perry Mason", "77 Sunset Strip", "Highway Patrol", "Peter Gunn", and of course (how could I not mention it!), "Dragnet"!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
White America’s Waco insanity: The shocking realities it ignores about racism & violence The response to the Twin Peaks shootout says everything you need to know about how white privilege really works
How the word "thug" will be moderated: If, in your comment, the word thug is interchangeable with criminal, no problem. If it isn't, it could be a big problem. The comment will be evaluated and it will be determined if a racial line appears to be crossed since bigoted comments are never ok here. We'll do the best we can in the evaluation so don't approach that line and there won't be consequences that no one wants, ok? Thanks. It's a changing world and the meaning of words does change. I hope this helps. Have a great weekend, all.
It surprises me that the word "thug" is an issue. I always thought the word "thug" meant "criminal", at least that's how it was used in the TV shows I grew up with, you know... shows like "Perry Mason", "77 Sunset Strip", "Highway Patrol", "Peter Gunn", and of course (how could I not mention it!), "Dragnet"!
This is a very slippery slope we are on now. Thug has a meaning. It has always had a meaning. That meaning has not changed. What has changed is what some people think they are hearing when the word is said. Or, in the case of this thread, when it is not said.
Fox News doesn't get to decide what words mean. Neither does Richard Sherman. Nor do liberals or conservatives, Democrats or Republicans. Thug means thug, plain and simple.
The bikers in Texas were thugs. The rioters in Baltimore were thugs. The difference is the bikers were also easily identifiable by another word: biker. That word carries a negative connotation all its own and has at least since the publication of Hunter Thompson's book on the Hells Angels or the Rolling Stones concert at Altamont. That it was used here instead of thug is not proof of racism or an indicator of inherent racial bias on the boards.
Post edited by JimmyV on
___________________________________________
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
There's bias in everyday life. Why would these forums be any different? For the record, I haven't called anyone "racist" nor do I believe Last 12 to be. I don't know him personally and have never met him.
After the incident in Waco, I noticed the media didn't use the term "thug" when describing the incident as they did when describing the incidences in Baltimore, Ferguson, et al. I questioned why that was? Bikers have been referred to and reported as bikers. Rioters were referred to and reported as and called thugs. Unarmed victims shot or killed by police or neighborhood watch folks were reported as or called thugs. In an unbiased environment a biker would be called a biker, a rioter a rioter and an unarmed victim, a victim. Why the utilization of another term, thug, for one group but not others? I'm not arguing that the word thug is wrong to use or that it implies a racial component when used. I'm just wondering why it was used for one group, predominately or majority black while it hasn't been used when referencing the other group, predominately or majority white. I also find the comments and/or opinions of blacks, whether members of congress or journalists quite illuminating and educational. If you don't believe bias or even veiled racism exists on this forum, I invite you to read through the Police Abuse and Trayvon Martin threads, among others. Because it's there and it exists, whether you like it or not.
I hope I didn't get too close to the line Kat warned us about.
There's bias in everyday life. Why would these forums be any different? For the record, I haven't called anyone "racist" nor do I believe Last 12 to be. I don't know him personally and have never met him.
After the incident in Waco, I noticed the media didn't use the term "thug" when describing the incident as they did when describing the incidences in Baltimore, Ferguson, et al. I questioned why that was? Bikers have been referred to and reported as bikers. Rioters were referred to and reported as and called thugs. Unarmed victims shot or killed by police or neighborhood watch folks were reported as or called thugs. In an unbiased environment a biker would be called a biker, a rioter a rioter and an unarmed victim, a victim. Why the utilization of another term, thug, for one group but not others? I'm not arguing that the word thug is wrong to use or that it implies a racial component when used. I'm just wondering why it was used for one group, predominately or majority black while it hasn't been used when referencing the other group, predominately or majority white. I also find the comments and/or opinions of blacks, whether members of congress or journalists quite illuminating and educational. If you don't believe bias or even veiled racism exists on this forum, I invite you to read through the Police Abuse and Trayvon Martin threads, among others. Because it's there and it exists, whether you like it or not.
I hope I didn't get too close to the line Kat warned us about.
It just appears that you are looking for racism when it's not there. I am sure that is just a point that we will disagree on. What does it matter what the media called the bikers? It doesn't compare at all with trayvon martin or the Baltimore riots. If you're waiting for the media to call every criminal a thug than I would advise not to hold your breath. The media was following suit with the black mayor of baltimore when referring to the rioters as thugs.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
This is a very slippery slope we are on now. Thug has a meaning. It has always had a meaning. That meaning has not changed. What has changed is what some people think they are hearing when the word is said. Or, in the case of this thread, when it is not said.
Fox News doesn't get to decide what words mean. Neither does Richard Sherman. Nor do liberals or conservatives, Democrats or Republicans. Thug means thug, plain and simple.
The bikers in Texas were thugs. The rioters in Baltimore were thugs. The difference is the bikers were also easily identifiable by another word: biker. That word carries a negative connotation all its own and has at least since the publication of Hunter Thompson's book on the Hells Angels or the Rolling Stones concert at Altamont. That it was used here instead of thug is not proof of racism or an indicator of inherent racial bias on the boards.
why has this shooting by the police in Waco turned into a race topic ? it should be more of a legal topic, all the club members and the NON club members that were arrested have a $1,000,000 bail and have had thier bikes taken away but no charges have been filed ?, and now I'm starting to read that NO THREATS were made to the police after the slaughter and the Waco PD was set in position hours before the meeting was to take place. but there is always some snivler that has to CREATE a race issue where there is not any reason to do so other than to stand out and make some jerk weed claim about white racism...and you guy's wonder why racism is still alive and well, maybe it's because nobody wants it to end and maybe there are people that make a living promoting it...money has no color bias it all spends the same.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
You claimed to see an inherent racial bias here on these boards. Not in this country, not in this world, but here are on these boards. It is a new spin on a very old trick, and an easy way to get around using terms like racist and racism. Conservatives during the cold war more often than not didn't brand someone a Communist. Instead they painted them with the pink brush, accused them of having sympathies, of having the wrong friends, of being a fellow traveler, of being anti-American, etc. But make no mistake, they were indeed calling the people they slandered Communists. They didn't need to use the terms to do the damage.
As I said earlier, this is a slippery slope we are now on. We're not calling people racists, we're just pointing out their inherent racial bias. We're not hearing them use racial language, we're projecting our own politics onto their words and declaring them to be racial. That is dangerous. That it is the left now doing it instead of the right does not make it any less so.
Not meaning to attack you personally. This is not about one person or one exchange. This "thug" issue hit a tipping point yesterday with Kat announcing the mods were going to be judging what each of us mean when we use the word. "Thug" as a racial code has become an institutionalized fact now on these boards. It is a loss for free speech, a victory for political correctness, and another arrow added to one group's rhetorical quiver. This troubles me greatly.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
I read a list of the "weapons" that were seized.......if you want a good laugh look it up and it was not a melee between "biker gangs" it was a slaughter.
Godfather.
Chains, brass knuckles, bats, knives... Those sound like weapons to me!
wait till the dust settles and this has to be proven, do you think that these cops started firing because they saw chains and brass knuckles ? I have always supported the police officers and still do but from time to time they fuck up and this is one of those times and I'd be willing to bet that the biker world gets thru this coming out stronger in the end.
I never used the term "racist or racism," until my previous post to this one. You did. I mentioned bias. They are completely different terms and meanings.
You claimed to see an inherent racial bias here on these boards. Not in this country, not in this world, but here are on these boards. It is a new spin on a very old trick, and an easy way to get around using terms like racist and racism. Conservatives during the cold war more often than not didn't brand someone a Communist. Instead they painted them with the pink brush, accused them of having sympathies, of having the wrong friends, of being a fellow traveler, of being anti-American, etc. But make no mistake, they were indeed calling the people they slandered Communists. They didn't need to use the terms to do the damage.
As I said earlier, this is a slippery slope we are now on. We're not calling people racists, we're just pointing out their inherent racial bias. We're not hearing them use racial language, we're just projecting our own politics onto their words and deciding it is racial. That is dangerous. That it is the left now doing it instead of the right does not make it any less so.
Not meaning to attack you personally. This is not about one person or one exchange. This "thug" issue hit a tipping point yesterday with Kat announcing the mods were going to be judging what each of us mean when we use the word. "Thug" as a racial code has become an institutionalized fact now on these boards. It is a loss for free speech and a victory for political correctness. That troubles me greatly.
You haven't? Have you read through the Police Abuse or Trayvon Martin threads? Do you think these boards are somehow exempt from the bias or racism that exists in our society? And it's not just about these boards or this forum. It's prevelant throughout the media, hence my observation. Go back and read the salon piece. It was much more eloquently expressed than I could ever be. Again, I don't have a problem with the word thug being used to describe a person or group of people. I just prefer that the same terminology be used when describing different groups of people. No offense taken Jimmy V as I don't feel attacked as much as misunderstood, maybe? Have a great weekend as I'll be in bean town for a Sox game, North End culinary delights and an overdose of Mike's Pastery.
This article helps clarify what the meeting actually was, like I said in an earlier post about myself and ex discussing about what is real and what is perceived. Some of you may be surprised that even a local minister is being held with a million dollar bail. Man, what a mess this is. (Oh and just for clarification the OMG in my user name does not stand for Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.)
This article helps clarify what the meeting actually was, like I said in an earlier post about myself and ex discussing about what is real and what is perceived. Some of you may be surprised that even a local minister is being held with a million dollar bail. Man, what a mess this is. (Oh and just for clarification the OMG in my user name does not stand for Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.)
I read this on "dirty ed's murdercycle page" good article.
Comments
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
You are missing the entire point.
I do think that you are dismissive of race issues, not out of racist feelings, but out of apathy. That's just my opinion of course.
Personally, my connection to openly racist people reminds me constantly that race issues are real and serious, and when I see newscasters with the same tone and content it pissed me off.
If, in your comment, the word thug is interchangeable with criminal, no problem. If it isn't, it could be a big problem. The comment will be evaluated and it will be determined if a racial line appears to be crossed since bigoted comments are never ok here. We'll do the best we can in the evaluation so don't approach that line and there won't be consequences that no one wants, ok? Thanks. It's a changing world and the meaning of words does change. I hope this helps. Have a great weekend, all.
Godfather.
Fox News doesn't get to decide what words mean. Neither does Richard Sherman. Nor do liberals or conservatives, Democrats or Republicans. Thug means thug, plain and simple.
The bikers in Texas were thugs. The rioters in Baltimore were thugs. The difference is the bikers were also easily identifiable by another word: biker. That word carries a negative connotation all its own and has at least since the publication of Hunter Thompson's book on the Hells Angels or the Rolling Stones concert at Altamont. That it was used here instead of thug is not proof of racism or an indicator of inherent racial bias on the boards.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
After the incident in Waco, I noticed the media didn't use the term "thug" when describing the incident as they did when describing the incidences in Baltimore, Ferguson, et al. I questioned why that was? Bikers have been referred to and reported as bikers. Rioters were referred to and reported as and called thugs. Unarmed victims shot or killed by police or neighborhood watch folks were reported as or called thugs. In an unbiased environment a biker would be called a biker, a rioter a rioter and an unarmed victim, a victim. Why the utilization of another term, thug, for one group but not others? I'm not arguing that the word thug is wrong to use or that it implies a racial component when used. I'm just wondering why it was used for one group, predominately or majority black while it hasn't been used when referencing the other group, predominately or majority white. I also find the comments and/or opinions of blacks, whether members of congress or journalists quite illuminating and educational. If you don't believe bias or even veiled racism exists on this forum, I invite you to read through the Police Abuse and Trayvon Martin threads, among others. Because it's there and it exists, whether you like it or not.
I hope I didn't get too close to the line Kat warned us about.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
https://www.google.com/#q=bias+definition
https://www.google.com/#q=racist+definition
Yes, your right. Nine killed, 270 arrested and over a hundred weapons seized from a melee between biker gangs in a restaurant on a Sunday morning doesn't compare at all with Baltimore or Trayvon Martin. My bad.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
but there is always some snivler that has to CREATE a race issue where there is not any reason to do so other than to stand out and make some jerk weed claim about white racism...and you guy's wonder why racism is still alive and well, maybe it's because nobody wants it to end and maybe there are people that make a living promoting it...money has no color bias it all spends the same.
Godfather.
Godfather.
As I said earlier, this is a slippery slope we are now on. We're not calling people racists, we're just pointing out their inherent racial bias. We're not hearing them use racial language, we're projecting our own politics onto their words and declaring them to be racial. That is dangerous. That it is the left now doing it instead of the right does not make it any less so.
Not meaning to attack you personally. This is not about one person or one exchange. This "thug" issue hit a tipping point yesterday with Kat announcing the mods were going to be judging what each of us mean when we use the word. "Thug" as a racial code has become an institutionalized fact now on these boards. It is a loss for free speech, a victory for political correctness, and another arrow added to one group's rhetorical quiver. This troubles me greatly.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Godfather.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
Yea, it's laughable when someone brings an AK47 to a biker brawl.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-biker-court-20150521-story.html
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
This article helps clarify what the meeting actually was, like I said in an earlier post about myself and ex discussing about what is real and what is perceived. Some of you may be surprised that even a local minister is being held with a million dollar bail. Man, what a mess this is. (Oh and just for clarification the OMG in my user name does not stand for Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.)
Godfather.