Meanwhile back in Israel
Comments
-
i misread honorific as "bonerific"....Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
long week..."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
You do realize that Palestine has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Palestinian politics is in response to the Israelis? Right?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Right. Like i said....glaring double standard.Halifax2TheMax said:You do realize that Palestine has internal politics, right? And that not everything that happens in Palestinian politics is in response to the Israelis? Right?
0 -
I just spit my drink out. Almost through my nose. Thanks.gimmesometruth27 said:
i misread honorific as "bonerific"....Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
long week...09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!benjs said:
It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?BS44325 said:
Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!benjs said:
Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.BS44325 said:
Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.benjs said:
If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.BS44325 said:
Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.badbrains said:
Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.BS44325 said:
This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.Drowned Out said:
I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.
I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?
Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?
Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...0 -
Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.benjs said:
Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
0 -
Except Tom Cotton was or is the subject, not the object. But I know it's just the bourbon talking. #losingBS44325 said:
Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.benjs said:
Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
#Game overHalifax2TheMax said:
Except Tom Cotton was or is the subject, not the object. But I know it's just the bourbon talking. #losingBS44325 said:
Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.benjs said:
Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
0 -
#winning? Shit, you're playing like your maple leafs played all year, #embarrassingBS44325 said:
Woah woah woah...my use of the term "idiot" is lifted completely from the "Tom Cotton is an idiot" thread. Come on peoples! Professor's point proved again! Tom Cotton = idiot is ok but Halifax = idiot is not ok? If you dish it out then take it! #winning Now back to the bourbon.benjs said:
Sorry Hali, I didn't see that he called you that, but you're absolutely right. There's no place for that no matter who's saying it and who's receiving it.Halifax2TheMax said:Its an honorific title, half of which he self proclaimed, maybe in another thread. I don't remember. BS should also heed your advice. Just saying. But I really don't mind being called an idiot. Its okay.
0 -
'twas indeed a beautiful night in downtown Toronto last night - when you're ready to chat again, I'm all earsBS44325 said:
Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!benjs said:
It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?BS44325 said:
Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!benjs said:
Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.BS44325 said:
Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.benjs said:
If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.BS44325 said:
Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.badbrains said:
Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.BS44325 said:
This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.Drowned Out said:
I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.
I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?
Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?
Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
I'm back. Two days of conferences, hard drinking and crying over my mystery vinyl. This town is on in the summer.benjs said:
'twas indeed a beautiful night in downtown Toronto last night - when you're ready to chat again, I'm all earsBS44325 said:
Not avoiding anyone but worked my tail off all day and on a massive bender right now. Beautiful night in downtown T.O...will try to take another crack at this riddle tomorrow when I sober up!benjs said:
It's really not that complicated. And now that you've had your half an hour comprehension plus half a day digestion time - how about some answers?BS44325 said:
Holy crap this is complicated. It took me a half hour just to figure out your living room analogy!benjs said:
Who owns the living room? I suppose my analogy is incomplete: we were both born and raised (and live together) in the house. We've seen landlords come and go who care not who lives there.BS44325 said:
Who owns the living room is what is in dispute but I think you took control of my kitchen because I lobbed bombs at your living room from my kitchen.benjs said:
If I claim your living room as my own because my neighbour Joe (who's also your landlord) recognized that my wife beat me and felt bad and told me I could do so (without asking for your consent), do I have that right? Then, if I decide to take control of your kitchen as well, does it change the fact that I have no right to jurisdiction over your living room? And if you tell me that I have no right to be there at all, somehow that would leave you as the unreasonable one? Colour me flummoxed.BS44325 said:
Hamas does not accept the right of Israel to exist. It's kind of a deal breaker. Sorry buddy. When you get that sorted out I'm sure we can find something to negotiate over.badbrains said:
Always the Palestinians fault, no matter what you show this guy, he always blames the Palestinians.BS44325 said:
This is my point. After all this time we are now seeing a hardening of the Israeli position. BDS is getting musicians to cancel concerts but is not resulting in any meaningful change. Hamas is running the opposition and as long as they do you will see more politicians such as this come to power. Peace becomes harder with every passing day.Drowned Out said:
I complain to Joe, the current landlord, "My wife Mary hits me in the head with a frying pan every time I see her without any provocation, and she follows me everywhere I go outside of this house - so I want some of this place as a safe refuge. Also, even in here, I don't like the way BS lives his life, and my head is too sore, I can't go out there and sustain another blow". Joe responds, "It's not my fault Mary hit you over the head with a frying pan, Ben, but I feel badly for you. That said, I'm tired of the headache of dealing with you two, and I just want out. I won't sell the place - you've made it your homes - but I'm not getting involved besides saying that, Ben, in my opinion, you should have some of the house to yourself. Peace!" Joe then tosses me the keys, and jets away in his bitchin' Camaro.
I look over at you, shrug my shoulders, and place the official flag of Bentopia in the living room, and pee on the ground to solidify that this is now my territory. I decide that you can come in, but you must obey by my rules, even if my rules go against your personal or cultural beliefs. Do I have the right to do this?
Edit: Now, five years have passed. As a result of your violent opposition to my occupation of the living room, I find that this permits me to take control of your kitchen as well, as well as negating any questions of the legitimacy of how I attained sovereignty over the living room. Is this justifiable?
Mr. Faded glory is once again doin' time...0 -
Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.Drowned Out said:Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...
I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....
0 -
Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.BS44325 said:
Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.Drowned Out said:Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...
I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....
Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.
Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 10 -
So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.gimmesometruth27 said:
israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.BS44325 said:
No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.badbrains said:
No surprise there gimmiegimmesometruth27 said:looks like bibi got his coalition.
commence harder right turn and global alienation.
get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144
Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran
As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128
ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight
http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/
This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
0 -
Hamas is a true obstacle to peace. Full stop. It does not need to be clarified.benjs said:
Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.BS44325 said:
Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.Drowned Out said:Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...
I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....
Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.
Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.0 -
Says the idiot looking in the mirror.BS44325 said:
Hamas is a true obstacle to peace. Full stop. It does not need to be clarified.benjs said:
Israel's population density is close to 400 capita/square kilometre. Gaza's is ten times that, at over 4,000 capita/square kilometre. This, combined with the limited (and controlled) access to fresh water and crops, and restrictions on fishing - essentially mandates imports for the sake of the flourishing of the Palestinian people. When these restrictions or limitations on access are not lifted, and the flow of goods and services into the territories is still limited, I don't see how this would've seen by the Palestinian people as anything but a means to appease global condemnation. A first step would be associated with a true sign of faith, not a meaningless act meant to silence protesters. This was a very solid effort to make the lives of Israelis easier and less affected by what they seem to deem the cancerous cells of Israel. Rather than maintaining the internal harmony of the country, they could simply isolate anything 'problematic', and ensure its strife and turmoil is unseen and unheard elsewhere in the country.BS44325 said:
Sorry for the delay Drowned. That was a great point on the coalitions and you wouldn't be wrong to suggest a double standard. This sort of gets into a "which came first the chicken or the egg" scenerio. As I see it when Israel completely withdrew from Gaza a number of years back that should have been seen as a softening of the Israeli position. I know it didn't come close to satisfying all Palestinian demands but it was certainly a first step and the appropriate response would have been to work peacefully to additional concessions. However, Hamas very quickly instituted a one-vote/one-time election and seized control of Gaza. This became problematic because Hamas and the PA do not agree ideologically. Hamas is completely rejectionist and by their actions has superseded any ability of the PA to negotiate. Many israeli's, including many on the left, now look back at the Gaza withdrawal and ask themselves "is peace even possible...we returned Gaza and it has only gotten worse?". It is this feeling that has moved the Israeli electorate to the right and has resulted in the Israeli coalition. Lastly...as my personal views often get lost in the weeds on here by being everyone's conservative foil...I am not an Israeli apologist as I see fault on all sides. I want a two-state solution of some type. What I absolutely believe though is at this point Hamas is the true obstacle peace. Egypt agrees with this. The PA agrees with this. Unless they are removed you will unfortunately see this Netanyahu coalition for a long long time.Drowned Out said:Only the first three paragraphs deal with your comments. Thanks for the clarification, but I don't think I was making any big leaps...? You made excuses for the appointment - that was my main point. I'm glad youre disgusted, but have to wonder why you only showed up to be nitpicky about my criticism, instead of expressing your disgust...
I asked BS the question regarding the Israel vs PA coalitions first...still hoping he'll take a shot at that one....
Hamas' one-vote/one-time election is only an issue after what Israel deems the appropriate maximum term length ought to be has elapsed (which, given that Netanyahu is on his fourth term, even interrupted by a term out of office, is strange to me). Until that point, the one-vote/one-time election is a moot point.
Hamas and the PA indeed do not agree ideologically: the PA's stance has been weakened to only have hope for a two-state solution; Hamas have hope for a one-state solution. This has nothing to do with rejectionist viewpoints: it's the simple reality that pushing for a one-state solution and pushing for a two-state solution must have different procedures, so they butt heads. This means that when you say that you believe Hamas is a true obstacle to peace - you should clarify: Hamas is a true obstacle to a two-state solution, inasmuch as the PA is a true obstacle to a one-state solution. Must they align in their goal? Absolutely: pushing for either scenario damages the effort to push for the other.0 -
against American wishes American wishes? What might they be? No more abortion? Bring Christ back into the classroom? Free guns for everyone? Exploit all natural resources to their logical conclusion of maximized profits for shareholder value? A charter school on every corner? Deep breaths of freedom for everyone willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? A Humvee in every driveway? American wishes?BS44325 said:
So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.gimmesometruth27 said:
israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.BS44325 said:
No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.badbrains said:
No surprise there gimmiegimmesometruth27 said:looks like bibi got his coalition.
commence harder right turn and global alienation.
get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144
Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran
As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128
ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight
http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/
This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
You do realize that ISIS is against everyone, right? There are no common grounds with those guys. So, Iran, according to the article you linked, is going to lose, along with Assad. The Turks and Saudis are taking the lead to vanquish the evil doers. What's your kerfluffle with this? Canada doesn't have a say. Putin's gonna rear his ugly head and benefit? The PA will emerge victorious and threaten Israel? Really, what did you think was going to happen after the Neocons invaded Iraq? Did you really believe that western style democracy would spread across the Middle East like a wild fire, peacefully and tranquil? Please, name me one democracy formed at the end of a barrel of a gun, just one. America, with all it's capabilities, newcleeaire and all, should shudder with fear. How are the Houthis doing by the way? Just wondering as it seems they've temporarily drawn the Saudis to a standstill. Let me know when they're vanquished by the naval blockade, will you please? So Assad falls, then what? Oh, the old domino theory again, right? And then what, I mean, between fracking and oil sands, what do we have to worry about?
Do you have a sand table in your basement with miniature shuffle board sticks that you use to move the armies along the map of the world, whilst multiple TVs broadcast 24/7 news with terror alerts streaming across the bottom of the screen while you smoke Cuban cigars and drink bourbon? If so, can I come over with my plastic army men?
You still haven't learned that getting sucked into a tribal religious war that is not a direct threat to the US' security is something to be avoided. Since 1898, which nation has basically been at war up until, well, they're still at war?09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©0 -
So called professor getting schooled AGAIN by the student hahahaHalifax2TheMax said:
against American wishes American wishes? What might they be? No more abortion? Bring Christ back into the classroom? Free guns for everyone? Exploit all natural resources to their logical conclusion of maximized profits for shareholder value? A charter school on every corner? Deep breaths of freedom for everyone willing to pull themselves up by their bootstraps? A Humvee in every driveway? American wishes?BS44325 said:
So here it is all laid out but the battlefield is in Syria.gimmesometruth27 said:
israel will confront iran. by themselves. we give aid to every one of those countries you listed. they would not think of going with israel against america's wishes.BS44325 said:
No surprise at all. The big surprise however will be watching Israel, Egypt, SA, Jordan, the PA and the other gulf states team up to confront Iran. Popcorn time indeed.badbrains said:
No surprise there gimmiegimmesometruth27 said:looks like bibi got his coalition.
commence harder right turn and global alienation.
get your popcorn ready. its gonna be a fun year.
http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2015/05/09/downfall-in-syria/#more-43144
Saudi and Turkey are helping the sunni extremists take down Assad who is being backed by Hezbollah/Iran
As this occurs ISIS has also declared war on Hamas
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/195128
ISIS at the same time is battling with the Muslim Brotherhood as well and we know where Egypt stands on this fight
http://shoebat.com/2014/08/23/isis-declares-war-hamas-muslim-brotherhood/
This is the grand battle taking shape against American wishes and I bet Israel is helping the egyptian/saudi/turkey/PA alliance behind the scenes
You do realize that ISIS is against everyone, right? There are no common grounds with those guys. So, Iran, according to the article you linked, is going to lose, along with Assad. The Turks and Saudis are taking the lead to vanquish the evil doers. What's your kerfluffle with this? Canada doesn't have a say. Putin's gonna rear his ugly head and benefit? The PA will emerge victorious and threaten Israel? Really, what did you think was going to happen after the Neocons invaded Iraq? Did you really believe that western style democracy would spread across the Middle East like a wild fire, peacefully and tranquil? Please, name me one democracy formed at the end of a barrel of a gun, just one. America, with all it's capabilities, newcleeaire and all, should shudder with fear. How are the Houthis doing by the way? Just wondering as it seems they've temporarily drawn the Saudis to a standstill. Let me know when they're vanquished by the naval blockade, will you please? So Assad falls, then what? Oh, the old domino theory again, right? And then what, I mean, between fracking and oil sands, what do we have to worry about?
Do you have a sand table in your basement with miniature shuffle board sticks that you use to move the armies along the map of the world, whilst multiple TVs broadcast 24/7 news with terror alerts streaming across the bottom of the screen while you smoke Cuban cigars and drink bourbon? If so, can I come over with my plastic army men?
You still haven't learned that getting sucked into a tribal religious war that is not a direct threat to the US' security is something to be avoided. Since 1898, which nation has basically been at war up until, well, they're still at war?0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.9K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110.1K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.2K Flea Market
- 39.2K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help