So the Co-Pilot...

lolobugg · March 2015

PJ_Soul said:
Did I miss something on the news? Is someone saying this guy had a mental illness?

you don't consider depression a "mental illness"?

PJ_Soul · March 2015

Yes, I absolutely do. I mean, is someone saying he was depressed or had some other mental illness? I hadn't heard that anyone yet knows why he did this. Did evidence of him being depressed surface today (and no one is reporting on it on any of the news outlets I subscribe to)?

lolobugg · March 2015

PJ_Soul said:
Yes, I do. I mean, is someone saying he was depressed? I hadn't heard that anyone yet knows why he did this.

Yeah,
they found a bunch of stuff at his apartment and his parents place that would lead to that conclusion plus I believe the airline admitted that he had problems in the past.

PJ_Soul, ya'll don't get CNN in Canada?

g under p · March 2015

HesCalledDyer said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HesCalledDyer said:
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.

Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?
I completely agree and no you haven't missed anything. Just contributing a sidebar in the "suicide/coward" debate.

This is true when I was on a Southwest flight to NJ a flight attendant when into the cockpit closed the door until the pilot returned from the restroom.

Peace

PJ_Soul · March 2015

lolobugg said:

PJ_Soul said:
Yes, I do. I mean, is someone saying he was depressed? I hadn't heard that anyone yet knows why he did this.
Yeah,
they found a bunch of stuff at his apartment and his parents place that would lead to that conclusion plus I believe the airline admitted that he had problems in the past.

PJ_Soul, ya'll don't get CNN in Canada?

Lol, yes we do! But I'm just surprised that with the dozen or so news organizations that send me news alerts, etc, not one of them mentioned it!

rgambs · March 2015

PJ_Soul said:

lolobugg said:

PJ_Soul said:
Yes, I do. I mean, is someone saying he was depressed? I hadn't heard that anyone yet knows why he did this.
Yeah,
they found a bunch of stuff at his apartment and his parents place that would lead to that conclusion plus I believe the airline admitted that he had problems in the past.

PJ_Soul, ya'll don't get CNN in Canada?
Lol, yes we do! But I'm just surprised that with the dozen or so news organizations that send me news alerts, etc, not one of them mentioned it!

It's been mentioned everywhere I have looked. He had to take a break from training because of depression.

WhatYouTaughtMe · March 2015

PJ_Soul said:

lolobugg said:

PJ_Soul said:
Yes, I do. I mean, is someone saying he was depressed? I hadn't heard that anyone yet knows why he did this.
Yeah,
they found a bunch of stuff at his apartment and his parents place that would lead to that conclusion plus I believe the airline admitted that he had problems in the past.

PJ_Soul, ya'll don't get CNN in Canada?
Lol, yes we do! But I'm just surprised that with the dozen or so news organizations that send me news alerts, etc, not one of them mentioned it!

The prosecutor stated they found a ripped up letter in his trash from a doctor deeming him unfit to work. Reason not yet revealed officially but of course there's tons of speculation.

Leezestarr313 · March 2015

They said they found a sick leave for the day of the flight and some others, and they said they found evidence of a sickness. They did not state what kind of sickness. Anything beyond that is SPECULATION.

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

Leezestarr313 said:
They said they found a sick leave for the day of the flight and some others, and they said they found evidence of a sickness. They did not state what kind of sickness. Anything beyond that is SPECULATION.

this. no one knows definitively for sure yet. even if he had a history of depression, that says very little as to the actual day this happened.

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.

Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.

The fact that someone might be enraged over an egregious act and reflects their emotional response with colorful descriptions for the offender doesn't mean they don't understand human behaviour... just the same as someone typically places such an event in a clinical perspective doesn't mean they aren't emotionally moved by the event.

We are all trying to digest an awful piece of history at the moment and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do this.

I know. just part of the discussion, dude.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.

Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.

The fact that someone might be enraged over an egregious act and reflects their emotional response with colorful descriptions for the offender doesn't mean they don't understand human behaviour... just the same as someone typically places such an event in a clinical perspective doesn't mean they aren't emotionally moved by the event.

We are all trying to digest an awful piece of history at the moment and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do this.
I know. just part of the discussion, dude.

Just keeping it clear.

You know how we get sometimes. All is good.

rgambs · March 2015

I guess depression hasn't been specifically confirmed yet, so it is speculation.

rr165892 · March 2015

Wow,this site and its apologists never seem to quit amazing me.
We prop up terrorists,Criminals,Mass Murderers.Always finding the excuse why they did what they did.Shit John McCain is a more hated villian around here,then someone who offs hundreds.

What about the victims?Whos going to bat for them?What if it was your spouse or child on that plane?
I totally get mental Illness.I know it's real and debilitating.I know some see suicide as their only way out.Sure they shit on their kids and family and of course fuck them up mentally for life when they kill themselves.But I'll give you that one solo death ,ok.
But taking 300 people with you? FUCK YOU murdering bastard.I don't care what your problem is.No excuse for murder.
Damn you would think some of you bleeding hearts would be crying for justice as hundreds of women and young children were vaporized because a Co Pilot had a bad day or daddy issues.

rr165892 · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

rr165892 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.

Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.

No Hugh,I'm calling a selfish coward a murdering fuck.Plain and simple.

Your a dad.Take a step back and picture the horror and grief that innocent families are dealing with now.If it was your wife and daughter would you take the same stance?I think we both know absolutely not. Cmon.Im a dad and I'm pissed.

No proms,weddings,grand Kids,Little League games.Watching your kids graduate,wedding anniversaries,etc,etc.Because idiot co pilot says so.He played the all mighty.

jeffbr · March 2015

I'm with you, RR. If he had been crying for help and killed himself, I'd feel compassion and sorrow for him and for his family. Instead he covered up his issues, and murdered hundreds of people. Sorry, my compassion is reserved for the victims of his murder, their families and his family. I have none left over for that murderer.

Last-12-Exit · March 2015

I understand that mental illness fucks with your brain. The Brain is so powerful. But I still consider suicide a cowardly act. I've known people that have committed suicide. All with different problems. But that is no excuse to take others out with you. This is no different than walking into a building with an AK-47 and taking out as many people as you can before pulling the gun on yourself.
Not only is this a cowardly act, suicide is the most selfish act anyone could do.

I have a difficult time writing how I feel about this. It's so much easier to talk this out. Acts like this enrage me. I get angry at the guy who caused this and feel so much sorrow for the innocent lives lost.

I really hope that there is some evidence that would prove this is 100% accident and no e of this was done on purpose. It may not help the families that lost loved ones, but it could help bring so e closure sooner. I could only imagine the horror this co-pilots family must be going through.

deadendp · March 2015

rr165892 said:
Wow,this site and its apologists never seem to quit amazing me.
We prop up terrorists,Criminals,Mass Murderers.Always finding the excuse why they did what they did.Shit John McCain is a more hated villian around here,then someone who offs hundreds.

What about the victims?Whos going to bat for them?What if it was your spouse or child on that plane?
I totally get mental Illness.I know it's real and debilitating.I know some see suicide as their only way out.Sure they shit on their kids and family and of course fuck them up mentally for life when they kill themselves.But I'll give you that one solo death ,ok.
But taking 300 people with you? FUCK YOU murdering bastard.I don't care what your problem is.No excuse for murder.
Damn you would think some of you bleeding hearts would be crying for justice as hundreds of women and young children were vaporized because a Co Pilot had a bad day or daddy issues.

Just because I was explaining that I understand mental illness does not make me an apologist. I don't defend what he did. I don't find it excusable. Mental illness, as I said, was an explanation, but not an excuse.

I understand from the front lines what mental illness does. It fucking sucks when you have to go hunt down a family member almost every night for months and months at a time to see if they are still alive. My brother's mental illness threw him into the need to self medicate, which also threw him into the pool of potential overdose. I had to drive around in some nasty neighborhoods with some pretty unsavory people to try to help my brother.

7 years in college didn't kill my innocent look at life-- dealing with my brother and his mental illness did.

Just because there are people here who can understand mental illness being debilitating doesn't mean that we say that flying a plane full of people into a mountainside is okay.

It's not.

It never will be.

rr165892 · March 2015

Dead,my post was not singling out any body individually.I was addressing the general collective apologist thinking that permeates on certain threads on these here interwebs.I lost a sister to mental illness and drugs.So yeah I know where you are coming from.

deadendp · March 2015

rr165892 said:
Dead,my post was not singling out any body individually.I was addressing the general collective apologist thinking that permeates on certain threads on these here interwebs.I lost a sister to mental illness and drugs.So yeah I know where you are coming from.

I'm very sorry that you lost your sister.

Mental illness consumes people. Sometimes those people consume people. My heart goes out to all of the families of the people lost.

Either way any of us look at it, there are 150 people gone. It is tragic no matter what label or explanation is put to it. They didn't die with peace. Those people died knowing that they were going to die. They were scared to death. There was nothing that they could do to prevent it. No one could protect anyone else. They died screaming.

Who Princess · March 2015

I don't think words like "coward" or "courage" really belong in this discussion. We're all trying to make sense of something that sense can't be made of. Was the guy mentally ill? Even if he was, how can that explain his behavior, and thinking it does just stigmatizes the hundreds of thousands of people with mental illness that never harm other people. OTOH if he was mentally ill, that may be a starting off point for trying to understand what happened.

Was Adam Lanza mentally ill? I certainly think so, even if there never was a clear diagnosis that was disclosed. But it's NOT characteristic of people with mental illness, even when extremely psychotic, to go shoot up an elementary school. With all the discussion after the Sandy Hook shootings, I still can't comprehend why that happened.

I don't know what we're ultimately going to learn about the co-pilot. For all I know, he had a brain tumor or some other serious organic problem. The thing that I can't stop thinking about was how and why he made this decision. Was it something he'd planned for a long time? Was it a sudden impulse when the pilot left the cabin? So many questions that will never be answered.

I feel terrible for all the families who lost loved ones and terrible for this man's family. I would expect them to blame themselves and I expect many other people to blame them. This was his choice, his act.

So the Co-Pilot...

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