German newspaper says they found sick leave notices in his apartment. Ripped apart and also from the day of the crash. Lots of arilines have already changed their guidelines too, and now require two people in the cockpit at all tmes.
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if you want to die,die..but taking with you all those people, for me its a murder.. and ofcourse the company who let him drive the plain..
I'm not sold on the company being to blame. It's nearly impossible to know if a guy is suicidal. Hell, police departments do psych evals before hiring and people get by.
if you want to die,die..but taking with you all those people, for me its a murder.. and ofcourse the company who let him drive the plain..
I'm not sold on the company being to blame. It's nearly impossible to know if a guy is suicidal. Hell, police departments do psych evals before hiring and people get by.
I agree. We can't predict absolutely everything, and most people who have an episode of depression will be able to go on to work just fine. Of course, one could argue that the stakes are so much higher for a commercial airline pilot that they need to weed everyone out with any risks, but that won't leave very many people at all. We can't control all risk, and when we try to there are real and significant consequences in other ways.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
According to a German newspaper, there could be different scenarios besides the co-pilot being on a suicide trip. Apparently, there was another incident with an airbus in november 2014 in Spain, where a similar scenario was happening... Sensors froze and resulted in a miscalculation in the flight computer.
Sudden loss of cabin pressure
poisonous fumes in the cabin
dangerous luggage, like suddenly exploding batteries
terror attack
Hopefully, they will fully resolve this.
This was no accident.this shit is mass murder.Fucking Coward.
We don't know this and if pilot did do this flying a plane nose first into a mountain isn't cowardly. Committing suicide isn't cowardly. Mental sure.
I totally agree. I think this "coward" label stuck onto terrorists or mass murderers (or bank robbers, whatever) is completely inaccurate. It actually takes a lot of balls to do anything like that. That's not meant to compliment them. They are fucking evil lunatics. But they aren't cowards.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
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I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
I guess we disagree on the definition of coward. I don't believe there is anyway a coward could fly a plane into a mountain or go through the process of getting onto a plane and take a crew hostage or hold up a crowded bank. I feel like this "coward" label specifically for violent criminals was kind of invented by the media just because it's an easy thing for the masses to understand and despise. It's easier to call them cowards than it is to dig deeper to the real reasons behind their crimes, which are psychological, sociological, political, COMPLICATED. It's basically a dumbing down of criminal violence so that no one has to think too hard about the real reasons behind their actions IMHO... and this is actually harmful to us all. If we just boil it down to cowardice, there is no reason to explore the very complicated issues that need to be addressed in order to prevent future tragedies.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.
In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?
There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.
In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?
There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.
agreed. but rr was referring to all people who commit suicide, not just this guy.
edit: I know what road we are going to go down with this, but actually, while I initially agreed with your assessement, looking at it non-emotionally, I don't agree that he was a lower form of life. it sounds to me as if he had some sort of mental breakdown. what makes someone do something that extreme is beyond me.
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.
In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?
There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.
agreed. but rr was referring to all people who commit suicide, not just this guy.
edit: I know what road we are going to go down with this, but actually, while I initially agreed with your assessement, looking at it non-emotionally, I don't agree that he was a lower form of life. it sounds to me as if he had some sort of mental breakdown. what makes someone do something that extreme is beyond me.
For sure.
In the clinical sense, there is much we need to understand about a human being that commits such a horrific crime.
It's tough to remove one's emotions from such an obscene event. It's very normal to look upon this individual with contempt and disgust and it doesn't make anyone less of a human being for doing so (I'm not suggesting this is what you implied).
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.
Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.
Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.
For those debating definitions. From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary: coward noun cow·ard \ˈkau̇(-ə)rd\ : someone who is too afraid to do what is right or expected : someone who is not at all brave or courageous
Full Definition of COWARD
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity — coward adjective
Examples of COWARD a proven coward who had deserted his troops
Origin of COWARD
Middle English, from Anglo-French cuard, from cue, coe tail, from Latin cauda First Known Use: 13th century Related to COWARD Synonyms chicken, craven, cur, dastard, funk, poltroon, recreant, sissy Antonyms hero, stalwart, valiant
I won't use the word "coward" to describe the co-pilot. I would say thoughtless. I would say that at that moment, he was very self centered. I'm stunned at the reports that he was seemingly calm when he did this. Certainly, he did have some mental issues that were kept hidden. I have a brother who is bipolar. You honestly just don't know what side of the coin you'll get when you see him. I get it.
What do I say about my brother? I can explain his actions, but I can't necessarily excuse his behavior.
This co-pilot? His actions may be explainable with mental illness, but that doesn't excuse them.
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.
Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.
The fact that someone might be enraged over an egregious act and reflects their emotional response with colorful descriptions for the offender doesn't mean they don't understand human behaviour... just the same as someone typically places such an event in a clinical perspective doesn't mean they aren't emotionally moved by the event.
We are all trying to digest an awful piece of history at the moment and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do this.
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.
So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.
Peace
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*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.
Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.
So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.
Peace
In U.S. planes, if the pilot or co-pilot has to use the restroom, one of the flight attendants enters the cabin until the other person returns. It doesn't mean that the flight attendant could take over flying the plane in an emergency. It's to prevent the remaining crew member from taking control or letting someone in if the person had a medical emergency and passed out, for instance. The flight attendant would be able to let the crew member back in.
I'm sure we could dream up scenarios where this might not work but it's designed to take care of the most likely emergencies. If there had been another person in the cockpit with this guy, would he have been able to take complete control over the plane?
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.
Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?
Documentation of a history of depression and currently unspecified medical conditions.
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.
Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?
I completely agree and no you haven't missed anything. Just contributing a sidebar in the "suicide/coward" debate.
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.
So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.
Peace
They aren't saying that two pilots have to be there (that would 100% of the pilots). They are saying two crew members. Obviously one of the flight attendants has to step into the cockpit if one of the pilots has to step out.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
And unless you have loved someone with a mental illness, you wouldn't know to look at this plane crash in this different way. (I'm not saying this to you HCDyer, but to everyone in general.) How do you think his family must feel? Mental illness caused their son to take down a plane with 149 other people on board. A mother lost her son and is left knowing that her son not only died but took a plane full of people on that final trip with him. I cannot imagine what she's going through. She would have never wished this for the passenger's families. She would have never wished this for her family. My sympathy for all involved.
cowardice is totally not relevant in situations where depression is involved. I agree with Dyer. these people have imbalances in their brains. just like I wouldn't call a sociopath a "coward" or call him/her "brave". these terms are irrelevant with the mentally ill.
it is a goddamn shame that this guy slipped thru the cracks and all these people had to pay for it with their lives. I can't imagine the fear that they must have felt.
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and ofcourse the company who let him drive the plain..
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Lots of arilines have already changed their guidelines too, and now require two people in the cockpit at all tmes.
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I don't believe there is anyway a coward could fly a plane into a mountain or go through the process of getting onto a plane and take a crew hostage or hold up a crowded bank.
I feel like this "coward" label specifically for violent criminals was kind of invented by the media just because it's an easy thing for the masses to understand and despise. It's easier to call them cowards than it is to dig deeper to the real reasons behind their crimes, which are psychological, sociological, political, COMPLICATED. It's basically a dumbing down of criminal violence so that no one has to think too hard about the real reasons behind their actions IMHO... and this is actually harmful to us all. If we just boil it down to cowardice, there is no reason to explore the very complicated issues that need to be addressed in order to prevent future tragedies.
Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
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There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.
edit: I know what road we are going to go down with this, but actually, while I initially agreed with your assessement, looking at it non-emotionally, I don't agree that he was a lower form of life. it sounds to me as if he had some sort of mental breakdown. what makes someone do something that extreme is beyond me.
www.headstonesband.com
In the clinical sense, there is much we need to understand about a human being that commits such a horrific crime.
It's tough to remove one's emotions from such an obscene event. It's very normal to look upon this individual with contempt and disgust and it doesn't make anyone less of a human being for doing so (I'm not suggesting this is what you implied).
www.headstonesband.com
Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
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coward
noun cow·ard \ˈkau̇(-ə)rd\
: someone who is too afraid to do what is right or expected : someone who is not at all brave or courageous
Full Definition of COWARD
: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
— coward adjective
Examples of COWARD
a proven coward who had deserted his troops
Origin of COWARD
Middle English, from Anglo-French cuard, from cue, coe tail, from Latin cauda
First Known Use: 13th century
Related to COWARD
Synonyms
chicken, craven, cur, dastard, funk, poltroon, recreant, sissy
Antonyms
hero, stalwart, valiant
I won't use the word "coward" to describe the co-pilot. I would say thoughtless. I would say that at that moment, he was very self centered. I'm stunned at the reports that he was seemingly calm when he did this. Certainly, he did have some mental issues that were kept hidden. I have a brother who is bipolar. You honestly just don't know what side of the coin you'll get when you see him. I get it.
What do I say about my brother? I can explain his actions, but I can't necessarily excuse his behavior.
This co-pilot? His actions may be explainable with mental illness, but that doesn't excuse them.
So. Very. Sad.
2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
We are all trying to digest an awful piece of history at the moment and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do this.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?
I'm sure we could dream up scenarios where this might not work but it's designed to take care of the most likely emergencies. If there had been another person in the cockpit with this guy, would he have been able to take complete control over the plane?
2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
I agree with Dyer. these people have imbalances in their brains.
just like I wouldn't call a sociopath a "coward" or call him/her "brave".
these terms are irrelevant with the mentally ill.
it is a goddamn shame that this guy slipped thru the cracks and all these people had to pay for it with their lives. I can't imagine the fear that they must have felt.
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