So the Co-Pilot...

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

rr165892 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.

Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.

wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

rr165892 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.

Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.

In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?

There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rr165892 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.

Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.

In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?

There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.

agreed. but rr was referring to all people who commit suicide, not just this guy.

edit: I know what road we are going to go down with this, but actually, while I initially agreed with your assessement, looking at it non-emotionally, I don't agree that he was a lower form of life. it sounds to me as if he had some sort of mental breakdown. what makes someone do something that extreme is beyond me.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

rr165892 said:

Dirtie_Frank said:
I disagree, terrorists and mass murders are cowards. If they had balls they would go after people who can fight back. They target unsuspecting people without the means to defend against their attack.
Bingo! Face your problems.Dont take the easy way out like a COWARD and take a bunch of others with you.Facing your problems,manning up ,and working toward resolution.that takes courage.Fighting back in the face of adversity is brave and takes moxy.

Quitting and pulling the plug that's for losers and Cowards.
wow. calling someone with mental issues and feels as if they have no other option in life but to end it pre-maturely a "loser". stay classy.

In the general sense, but aren't we talking about a legitimate loser in this case?

There's not much that can be said in defense of a twat that deliberately crashes a plane filled with innocent people. If he had killed himself, we could feel sorry for him. The fact that he took a plane full of people with him makes him a mass murderer and a form of life lower than a one-celled organism. He's a piece of shit.
agreed. but rr was referring to all people who commit suicide, not just this guy.

edit: I know what road we are going to go down with this, but actually, while I initially agreed with your assessement, looking at it non-emotionally, I don't agree that he was a lower form of life. it sounds to me as if he had some sort of mental breakdown. what makes someone do something that extreme is beyond me.

For sure.

In the clinical sense, there is much we need to understand about a human being that commits such a horrific crime.

It's tough to remove one's emotions from such an obscene event. It's very normal to look upon this individual with contempt and disgust and it doesn't make anyone less of a human being for doing so (I'm not suggesting this is what you implied).

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.

I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.

Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.

HughFreakingDillon · March 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.

Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.

actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.

deadendp · March 2015

For those debating definitions. From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:
coward
noun cow·ard \ˈkau̇(-ə)rd\
: someone who is too afraid to do what is right or expected : someone who is not at all brave or courageous

Full Definition of COWARD

: one who shows disgraceful fear or timidity
— coward adjective

Examples of COWARD
a proven coward who had deserted his troops

Origin of COWARD

Middle English, from Anglo-French cuard, from cue, coe tail, from Latin cauda
First Known Use: 13th century
Related to COWARD
Synonyms
chicken, craven, cur, dastard, funk, poltroon, recreant, sissy
Antonyms
hero, stalwart, valiant

I won't use the word "coward" to describe the co-pilot. I would say thoughtless. I would say that at that moment, he was very self centered. I'm stunned at the reports that he was seemingly calm when he did this. Certainly, he did have some mental issues that were kept hidden. I have a brother who is bipolar. You honestly just don't know what side of the coin you'll get when you see him. I get it.

What do I say about my brother? I can explain his actions, but I can't necessarily excuse his behavior.

This co-pilot? His actions may be explainable with mental illness, but that doesn't excuse them.

So. Very. Sad.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HughFreakingDillon said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HughFreakingDillon said:
yeah, as we all try to make sense of the non-sensical, we often are only able to explain it as the person who commited the act is some sort of lower form, someone lesser than we are. for some reason, it helps us feel better about ourselves, that we would never commit such an act, and that the person must be some sort of animal. when all it really is, is a brain malfunction.
I'm not so sure we are calling such worthleess people worthless to make ourselves feel better. I think it's more a case of calling a spade a spade.

Realistically, we can explain and account for all behavior in vanilla terms. I'm not sure we should though.
actually, I think it would serve a lot of good to account for behaviour in those terms. it would help people understand human behaviour, rather than just judge by it.

The fact that someone might be enraged over an egregious act and reflects their emotional response with colorful descriptions for the offender doesn't mean they don't understand human behaviour... just the same as someone typically places such an event in a clinical perspective doesn't mean they aren't emotionally moved by the event.

We are all trying to digest an awful piece of history at the moment and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' way to do this.

HesCalledDyer · March 2015

Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.

g under p · March 2015

PJ_Soul said:
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.

So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.

Peace

Thirty Bills Unpaid · March 2015

HesCalledDyer said:
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.

No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.

Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?

Who Princess · March 2015

g under p said:

PJ_Soul said:
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.
So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.

Peace

In U.S. planes, if the pilot or co-pilot has to use the restroom, one of the flight attendants enters the cabin until the other person returns. It doesn't mean that the flight attendant could take over flying the plane in an emergency. It's to prevent the remaining crew member from taking control or letting someone in if the person had a medical emergency and passed out, for instance. The flight attendant would be able to let the crew member back in.

I'm sure we could dream up scenarios where this might not work but it's designed to take care of the most likely emergencies. If there had been another person in the cockpit with this guy, would he have been able to take complete control over the plane?

rgambs · March 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HesCalledDyer said:
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.

Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?

Documentation of a history of depression and currently unspecified medical conditions.

HesCalledDyer · March 2015

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

HesCalledDyer said:
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.
No, but deliberately flying a plane full of people into a mountain side is horrific and brutal.

Have I missed something here? Has there been documentation stating definitively that this idiot had a diagnosed mental illness?

I completely agree and no you haven't missed anything. Just contributing a sidebar in the "suicide/coward" debate.

PJ_Soul · March 2015

g under p said:

PJ_Soul said:
The Canadian government just announced that all Canadian airlines will now require two people in the cockpit at all times starting today.
So what happens IF one REALLY have to go? You can't tell me that can't happen on a long flight, what pilots are going to have to bring urinals with them while seated and flying a plane. Sounds like a bit much for all the other multi tasking things a pilots have to deal with.

Peace

They aren't saying that two pilots have to be there (that would 100% of the pilots). They are saying two crew members. Obviously one of the flight attendants has to step into the cockpit if one of the pilots has to step out.

PJ_Soul · March 2015

FTR, saying that someone who does something like this isn't a coward doesn't amount to excusing their behaviour... on the contrary, actually.

deadendp · March 2015

HesCalledDyer said:
Mental illness is not cowardice. Plain and simple. There are chemicals in our brain that trigger how we feel, how we think, & how we behave. When those chemicals aren't firing correctly it can lead to irrational, unexplainable behavior. To shame people with mental illnesses by calling them losers & cowards, is cowardly in that you are not facing a difficult situation with the most objective or diplomatic outlook.

And unless you have loved someone with a mental illness, you wouldn't know to look at this plane crash in this different way. (I'm not saying this to you HCDyer, but to everyone in general.) How do you think his family must feel? Mental illness caused their son to take down a plane with 149 other people on board. A mother lost her son and is left knowing that her son not only died but took a plane full of people on that final trip with him. I cannot imagine what she's going through. She would have never wished this for the passenger's families. She would have never wished this for her family. My sympathy for all involved.

lolobugg · March 2015

cowardice is totally not relevant in situations where depression is involved.
I agree with Dyer. these people have imbalances in their brains.
just like I wouldn't call a sociopath a "coward" or call him/her "brave".
these terms are irrelevant with the mentally ill.

it is a goddamn shame that this guy slipped thru the cracks and all these people had to pay for it with their lives. I can't imagine the fear that they must have felt.

PJ_Soul · March 2015

Did I miss something on the news? Is someone saying this guy had a mental illness?

So the Co-Pilot...

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