Global warming

Thanks again for great info on Klein's book, breakmarysfall. Some thoughts:

25 years of knowing about the dangers of Global Warming but no emissions cut back or changes in our economic system...

I lived next to a meteorologist in the late 80's (Well I'll be!... about 25 years ago!) and he showed me data that indicated global warming and warned me then that if something wasn't done to reverse the trend soon we were in deep poop.

widen out the alternative energy supply that is already existing and working just well instead of searching for new, fancy ways - like dimming the sun by geo-engineering or building a community on Mars!

Madness, indeed! These are desperate, head-in-the-sand, ideas fostered by industry and/or people in deep denial about the reality of climate science and/or people sadly desperate for an easy answer.

She recommends to think about ourselves again as being just a part of the huge living system instead of acting like the master of it all!

Yes! We would do well do consider the Gaia concept- planet as living system. So totally YES!

Above all, she ask for a re-design of the Capitalist Mantra: ongoing growth as the salvation for all of us... steady growth is NOT possible if the resources are limited!!! It is just a matter of logic

Frustrating, isn't it, that something so basic, so simple, is so overlooked!

Thanks again! Thia is great stuff!

brianlux said:

Thanks again for great info on Klein's book, breakmarysfall. Some thoughts:

25 years of knowing about the dangers of Global Warming but no emissions cut back or changes in our economic system...

I lived next to a meteorologist in the late 80's (Well I'll be!... about 25 years ago!) and he showed me data that indicated global warming and warned me then that if something wasn't done to reverse the trend soon we were in deep poop.

widen out the alternative energy supply that is already existing and working just well instead of searching for new, fancy ways - like dimming the sun by geo-engineering or building a community on Mars!

Madness, indeed! These are desperate, head-in-the-sand, ideas fostered by industry and/or people in deep denial about the reality of climate science and/or people sadly desperate for an easy answer.

- p.s. those ideas are not only fostered by industry. One chapter explains in detail, that our green billionaires follow these ideas most.... it is a good one: why the billionaires won't save us.
B. Gates spends his green money for further development of all kinds of geoengineering
R. Branson spends his money to evaluate and organize a life on mars for the elite...

She recommends to think about ourselves again as being just a part of the huge living system instead of acting like the master of it all!

Yes! We would do well do consider the Gaia concept- planet as living system. So totally YES!

- p.s.2: dunno exactly what a Gaia concept is about but I surely will get informed about it... Klein does not use this explanation, although the name is mentioned once.
But, however and maybe I inhaled the Gaia concept already and Naomi Klein as well... I'll find out

Above all, she ask for a re-design of the Capitalist Mantra: ongoing growth as the salvation for all of us... steady growth is NOT possible if the resources are limited!!! It is just a matter of logic

Frustrating, isn't it, that something so basic, so simple, is so overlooked!

Thanks again! Thia is great stuff!

Thank you for your kind words that is really nice... and I've hoped all the while that I could sum up the book in a good way.
Well, dear brainlux, tell me how good of a sum up it was when you have read it.
To me, it is indeed really great and somehow almost important to read...
... and now I am happy that I could encourage you for doing so ...

breakmarysfall said:

Thank you for your kind words that is really nice... and I've hoped all the while that I could sum up the book in a good way.
Well, dear brainlux, tell me how good of a sum up it was when you have read it.
To me, it is indeed really great and somehow almost important to read...
... and now I am happy that I could encourage you for doing so ...

I will, indeed, breakmarysfall. good work!

backseatLover12 said:

The Relentless Attack on Climate Scientist Ben Santer

http://billmoyers.com/2014/05/16/the-relentless-attack-of-climate-scientist-ben-santer/

Thought this story was very interesting, and how scientists are getting manipulated out of the public view by deniers with no factual evidence supporting their views.

Great read, thanks bsL! This part really got me rile:

" few years later, Santer was reading the morning paper and came across an article describing how some scientists had participated in a program, organized by the tobacco industry, to discredit scientific evidence linking tobacco to cancer. The idea, the article explained, was to “keep the controversy alive...

Not only were the tactics the same, the people were the same, too. The leaders of the attack on him were two retired physicists...

...Both were extremely hawkish...

and both had previously worked for the tobacco industry, helping to cast doubt on the scientific evidence linking smoking to death.”

This really floored me because I was just reading this from the book The New Universe and the Human Future by Abrams and Primack:

"Remarkably, a small number of scientists have used prestige that they have earned in other areas [besides climate] to obscure the truth again and again, using virtually the same strategies on numerous issues from acid rain, tobacco smoke, and the ozone hole to global warming."

Oh man, I really hope we are just preaching to the choir at this point. The blatant obscuring of truth for no good purpose whatsoever surely must be obvious by now. The practice of those who do so is disgusting and preposterous at a time when urgent measures to reduce our harmful impact on climate and environment is paramount.

backseatLover12 said:

What I find disturbing Brian is the number of scientists willing to compromise integrity when being offered money.

Just found this, I don't really trust Newsweek (NASA on the other hand is reputable), but we know the SW is having trouble with water supply… I don't know about only one year left… And I know you're in CA!

http://www.newsweek.com/nasa-california-has-one-year-water-left-313647

NASA: California Has One Year of Water Left

Good article, thanks bsL. Some of the comments left at the end of that article are interesting too. I agree with the notion that we need to change our way of doing agriculture since a huge portion of our water is used for that purpose. The first thing we would be wise to do is cut way down on our animal consumption, especially beef (which I all but stopped eating). And not just here in CA but everywhere since every cow releases something like between 70 and 120 kg of methane per year- a huge contribution to greenhouse gasses.

Also good to see someone there suggested growing hemp. (see hemp thread).

I half Joking tell C. that maybe droves of people will get freaked out and move out of the state. Yes, a very selfish view but when I was born here in California the population of the state was 11.13 million and today it is 38.8 million. Population will definitely factor in to the long-term drought situation (and of course it is related to almost all of the rest of the problems we face),

Watched a show the other night on Honey Bees and how important to the big picture of our enviorment they are.Eye opening!!!

BS44325 said:

Interesting article from a skeptic

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/03/20/why-i-am-climate-change-skeptic

Sorry BS but, really, very few (especially climate scientists) who are informed and well educated on environmental issues take Moore seriously. He left Greenpeace in 1986 and since then has mostly done consulting and corporate speaking.

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out a hat! Ooops, sorry, wrong hat."

Nice try, BS.

BS44325 said:

brianlux said:

BS44325 said:

Interesting article from a skeptic

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/03/20/why-i-am-climate-change-skeptic

Sorry BS but, really, very few (especially climate scientists) who are informed and well educated on environmental issues take Moore seriously. He left Greenpeace in 1986 and since then has mostly done consulting and corporate speaking.

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out a hat! Ooops, sorry, wrong hat."

Nice try, BS.

Nice try?

Sorry, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. Do you agree with Moore? Do you have doubts about anthropogenic global warming?

BS44325 said:

brianlux said:

BS44325 said:

brianlux said:

BS44325 said:

Interesting article from a skeptic

http://news.heartland.org/newspaper-article/2015/03/20/why-i-am-climate-change-skeptic

Sorry BS but, really, very few (especially climate scientists) who are informed and well educated on environmental issues take Moore seriously. He left Greenpeace in 1986 and since then has mostly done consulting and corporate speaking.

"Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out a hat! Ooops, sorry, wrong hat."

Nice try, BS.

Nice try?

Sorry, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. Do you agree with Moore? Do you have doubts about anthropogenic global warming?

Of course I have doubts. Science demands doubt. There is a pause in temperature data that does not line up with earlier predictions. It is possible that our early assumptions on the effect of carbon dioxide are wrong. Science must test to find out. Don't fear the answer.

BS, I appreciate a certain amount of skepticism but, look, I've already posted 18 gazilion rebuttals here to this kind of climate change denial and I no longer see any point in arguing against information that is put out by a very small percentage of people who claim to be scientist who get their pay checks from corporations that are far more concerned about their profit margin that about what we are doing to trash the planet. Fear has nothing to do with for me. For those who come after me, concern, yes.

backseatLover12 said:

Scientists Record Warmest Day Ever in Antarctica

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/04/01/scientists-record-warmest-day-ever-antarctica

A potential Antarctica record high of 63.5 degrees Fahrenheit was recorded on March 24 at the Esperanza Base, just south of the southern tip of Argentina—a temperature exceeding any figure yet observed on the Antarctic landmass or Peninsula, according to the Weather Underground blog. The previous record high at the base, of 62.7 degrees Fahrenheit, was recorded in 1961.

So when it's the coldest day on record in "name your city" it has nothing to do with Global Warming but when it's the warmest day in Antarctica it obviously has everything to do with it.

rgambs said:

BS44325 said:

backseatLover12 said:

Scientists Record Warmest Day Ever in Antarctica

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/04/01/scientists-record-warmest-day-ever-antarctica

A potential Antarctica record high of 63.5 degrees Fahrenheit was recorded on March 24 at the Esperanza Base, just south of the southern tip of Argentina—a temperature exceeding any figure yet observed on the Antarctic landmass or Peninsula, according to the Weather Underground blog. The previous record high at the base, of 62.7 degrees Fahrenheit, was recorded in 1961.

So when it's the coldest day on record in "name your city" it has nothing to do with Global Warming but when it's the warmest day in Antarctica it obviously has everything to do with it.

Not exactly "everything" to do with it, but acting like temperatures in the continental U.S. are as significant in climate science as temperatures at the poles is just plain wrong. We know, even beyond the range of deniers, that the variability in climate at the poles is typically far less dynamic, and we also know that when the global climate shifts, greater variability, and greater effect in general is experienced in those regions.
Do you think that the winter temperature in (insert your city) and the autumn temperature in Antarctica are of equal significance in global climate, or are you simplifying the issue to blur the point and create hypocrisy from nothing?

We don't "know" any of those things.