Charlie Hebdo Paris shooting: 12 dead after gunmen storm newspaper's HQ
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Total bs: I don't understand why they should be held responsible.
This is just a minority of people. They're terrosits, not muslims.
It means: "In case you're mistaken", "This is a terrorist", "This is a muslim".
The cop on the right was a muslim, Kouashi didn't hesitate to shoot him.
@Dimi: about Montpellier, it was a hold up. The guy finally surrendered.
Exactly buddy..
and yes i read about it..good solved without shooting"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”0 -
So now you are a Schrink rgambs....what can't you do pal??i was
just answering lux's question and being honest. Not everyone makes themselve feel useful and important in this world by writing down idealistic solutions and I am so smarter than everyone in the room from Amish country nonsense....I am one to believe actions speak louder than words . I hope lux goes out and does something inspiring today...and I hope I do not have too.
Hahaha! How did you know I am half Amish, muskydan?
Again, I do believe as you do that actions speak louder than words. Now, I'm not trying to coax sympathy out of you, I'm really not, but I'm almost 64 years old and my body is pretty much wearing out and writing is becoming more and more an important tool for me than some of the hard work that activism requires. I think I've "done my time" that way. Also, I still have to work for a living and don't see retirement on the near horizon even at my age, so I do what I can.
You make a lot of assumptions, muskydan.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
What strikes me in reading trough all the comments, is that the point these terrorist fight for is in action right here on this forum. These terrorists shot the staff of CH because they couldn't deal with the right for freedom off speech! In this threat it seems to me as if a lot of you does share the same point of view....
Nobody is born to hate and only a few are nurtured to hate, it's a choice each individual makes for himself! It's our own responsibility what we chose, but society as a whole has also a responsibility. For about many years we demonize a whole religion. "All Muslims are bad, and if they're not all bad, they must distance themselves from the extremists, if they don't apologize for the behavior of these extremists, they condone it, and therefor are bad themselves."
But why on earth do they have to apologize? Because they happen to share the same religious background? It the same as saying all white people have to apologize for the KKK because of the color of there skin. Or saying that all African Americans have to apologize for the behavior of gang members because of the color off their skin. Or saying that all Jews have to apologize for the slaughter of Palestinians. (Which some of you do seem to agree with). Or saying that all Palestinians have to apologize about the actions of Hamas (Which other people here seems to agree with). Every religion, race or skin color has it's fare share of nutcases. But it doesn't mean that such a group as a whole does share the same believes. All these nutcases, have a different view on life. So one man's hero is an other man's nutcase. There is no absolute right or wrong in this world, there is only difference in perspective....
My own right is fighting with words. I draw the line by violence. Doesn't matter who starts, every form of violence I find despicable. But that's just my opinion....
Lets not get divided, because then the terrorists get exactly what they want, Censorship in progress!
Everyone has the freedom of speech and belief, lets honor that, at least at this forum!
I love this post"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”0 -
Hahaha I am the Amish knowitall he is referring to Brian.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0
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"ΠΑΝ ΜΕΤΡΟΝ ΑΡΙΣΤΟΝ"wise ancient Greeks used to say...
means in free translate "Moderation is perfect"
Whereever or whatever u believe in and its extremist,is just wrong"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”0 -
Hahaha no I am an Atheist lol
I do, however, live near the largest Amish community in the world. The Millersburg Walmart has an awning and hitching rail down one entire side of the parking lot. Being named Levi and carrying an old-world beard are just coincidences, when I lived in Columbus and Tucson people thought I was Jewish instead. I think they were closer, as I do grow quite the moustache, unlike the Amish.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Here's a GREAT article, I think it describes what Mickey is trying to get across. I could be wrong but either way, def worth the read:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/01/09/who-should-be-blamed-for-muslim-terrorism/#.VLFUeOPvXVc.twitter0 -
bootlegger10 wrote: »bootlegger10 wrote: »
All religions based on the old testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, see themselves as the one and only true religion, and their believers to be better persons, and non believers as lower folks or sinners. Thereby all these religions are based on a believe system which divides and conquers, us against them.... Instead of seeing each other as just another belief system that is equal in value, there is an hierarchy in which the own system is far above that of other religious values. Therefor all religious leaders of these type of religions preach hate in my point of view.
What nations are falling all over themselves to make sure that we don't blame Islam for these extremists? That's right, Christian nations. What nations are accepting millions and millions of Muslim immigrants? That's right, Christian nations.
No, I am not for one second going to believe this pathetic line that all religions are equal or evil.
They accept millions of Muslim immigrants? On what planet do the accept them? They may come to do the filthiest jobs, and piss of when economy comes down. Get blamed of all crime and feared when trying to get a place in society. No Not all religions are equal some are far worse than others in their pathetic conviction of being better than others...
Why are they flocking to these Christian nations then? Why? WHy not stay in their Muslim countries if they are treated so much better? It is the same in the US. If we treat immigrants so badly then why do they keep coming here?
I can't possibly expect to show up in another country with no money and no shared cultural norms and expect to get that middle class job. Sorry. Also, can you understand the fear in these countries when they see what is happening in the countries these people are coming from and also see the brutal attacks in these European countries against something as innocent as a cartoon?
Certainly, it would great that everyone gets along, but these are distinct cultures trying to get along and it isn't going to be easy. I'm not saying that the average Muslim person is bad, but I'm saying that the French person or British person that is leary of a Muslim immigrant is not a bad person either. Even in 2015 it is going to be tough for historically homogenized countries to adapt to immigration of a culture that is distinctly different and is (from what I see in the media) less likely to assimilate to the cultural norms of the country they are immigrating to.0 -
Thirty. Reread the third paragraph. Or dont . I dont give a fuck.there appears to be a pattern developing of not reading what is actually written.
the last paragraph shows that is no surprise that events such as this occur. Someone said that I am victim blaming. No. I am owning our part in this. We are not defenseless nor helpless. We set this shit up without a care in the world and become outraged the rest of the world or parts of it dont fall in line with our selfserving bullshit.
anyone unwilling to look at their part is sociopathic. Actively work for the solution or remain the chief part of the problem. Denial and willful ignorance.
have a nice day.
I read the 3rd... but it goes hand in the hand with the 4th: France was a chief perp in this so long ago. That history does not justify nor excuse what we see today , but it goes a long way to explain it. "WE" are just the latest in a long line of one fucking over another. Eventually the one getting fucked will strike back.
So not just "religion" "OWNS" this. we all do. from the people we put into power to the bullshit we buy from corps doing the exploiting today. WE OWN THIS. HUMANITY OWNS THIS. Fucking parasites we are.
Sooooo... exactly what did I miss? 'We are all parasites that deserve this' is how this reads. We deserve to get shot because we buy oil for our cars. If we'd just stick to local economies and ride horses... nobody would have to get shot in their office while drawing cartoons.
Come on, man. You're waaaay off base here."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Now imagine if you were a Muslim living in the Middle East bootlegger and you're seeing all the shit that's happening to you because of the west. All the bombs dropping on Iraq, all the proxy wars we're fighting in. Why is so hard for some to view things through other peoples eyes? I just don't get it.0
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Now imagine if you were a Muslim living in the Middle East bootlegger and you're seeing all the shit that's happening to you because of the west. All the bombs dropping on Iraq, all the proxy wars we're fighting in. Why is so hard for some to view things through other peoples eyes? I just don't get it.
Canada has oil but we are not bombing Canada. Venezuela and Brazil have oil but the West are not bombing those countries. In North America, South America, Australia, and Europe there really is no war going on (except for Russia's aggressions).
The West are bombing countries where there are either evil dictators, or the leadership in those countries allows or is unable to prevent terrorist groups from flourishing. Even if you question their intentions (oil, not religion), the USA could not have gone into Afghanistan without the Taliban and Al Qaeda being active there. The USA couldn't have bombed Iraq without Saddam Hussein having killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The West couldn't have taken what little action they took in Syria without an evil dictator killing his opposition. The theme here is that the crimes of those countries internally have led to their strife, and they can question the motives of the West all they want, but those countries are to blame. The world wants stability and these countries are as unstable as they come so the rest of the world has to take action.
I get that someone in those countries hates America because we drop bombs and then become terrorists, but I'm not going to say that we are to blame like others in this thread. The culture of violence in these countries is to blame. I'm 99% certain that all Americans would be horrified if we went in and bombed Brazil to get their natural resources. I'm not an expert on Brazil, but I've not read any stories of Brazil's president gassing his own people and sending suicide bombers into markets. Most in the west went to help innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq live a free life that is free of day to day fear of extremists. Sure, we may have backed the least of two evils along the way, but we have no choice in some cases.Post edited by bootlegger10 on0 -
bootlegger10 wrote: »bootlegger10 wrote: »
All religions based on the old testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, see themselves as the one and only true religion, and their believers to be better persons, and non believers as lower folks or sinners. Thereby all these religions are based on a believe system which divides and conquers, us against them.... Instead of seeing each other as just another belief system that is equal in value, there is an hierarchy in which the own system is far above that of other religious values. Therefor all religious leaders of these type of religions preach hate in my point of view.
What nations are falling all over themselves to make sure that we don't blame Islam for these extremists? That's right, Christian nations. What nations are accepting millions and millions of Muslim immigrants? That's right, Christian nations.
No, I am not for one second going to believe this pathetic line that all religions are equal or evil.
They accept millions of Muslim immigrants? On what planet do the accept them? They may come to do the filthiest jobs, and piss of when economy comes down. Get blamed of all crime and feared when trying to get a place in society. No Not all religions are equal some are far worse than others in their pathetic conviction of being better than others...
What countries tend to be the most stable? Historically Christian nations or Muslim nations? What country would a women likely have more freedom in? Would you be more likely to be killed building a Mosque in the USA or a church in Iraq? Keep digging your hole that somehow Christians are responsible for all the evils of the world, or own proportionally more than their fair share. You are close to hitting bedrock.Post edited by bootlegger10 on0 -
Again, you couldn't be more wrong. Have you seen the pie chart I've posted a million times with the US and how many years we've been involved in wars in our young 239 years of existence? It's i believe at 218 years now. That's a staggering chart.
But hey, I'm not a crazy lunatic Muslim fanatic. You can have any view u want on me, my prophet my god, whoever u want. Some people really chose to know and other chose to watch mainstream western media outlets. Which u have every right to do.
Edit-bootlegger, u read the article I posted? Just curious as to what u got out of it.0 -
Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote: »Thirty. Reread the third paragraph. Or dont . I dont give a fuck.there appears to be a pattern developing of not reading what is actually written.
the last paragraph shows that is no surprise that events such as this occur. Someone said that I am victim blaming. No. I am owning our part in this. We are not defenseless nor helpless. We set this shit up without a care in the world and become outraged the rest of the world or parts of it dont fall in line with our selfserving bullshit.
anyone unwilling to look at their part is sociopathic. Actively work for the solution or remain the chief part of the problem. Denial and willful ignorance.
have a nice day.
I read the 3rd... but it goes hand in the hand with the 4th: France was a chief perp in this so long ago. That history does not justify nor excuse what we see today , but it goes a long way to explain it. "WE" are just the latest in a long line of one fucking over another. Eventually the one getting fucked will strike back.
So not just "religion" "OWNS" this. we all do. from the people we put into power to the bullshit we buy from corps doing the exploiting today. WE OWN THIS. HUMANITY OWNS THIS. Fucking parasites we are.
Sooooo... exactly what did I miss? 'We are all parasites that deserve this' is how this reads. We deserve to get shot because we buy oil for our cars. If we'd just stick to local economies and ride horses... nobody would have to get shot in their office while drawing cartoons.
Come on, man. You're waaaay off base here.
No, he is stating the exact same thing that you did in the spanking thread. You don't condone it, but you understand why it happens. That is all he is saying.
Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
And before I get labeled as some sort of cultural or religious supremacist, I think everyone is born equal. I think the vast majority of Muslims are great people, but unfortunately there are a few in those middle eastern countries that make it extremely difficult to the many to overcome a lot of the issues plagueing those countries. But it also appears there are widely accepted views in those countries of a non-terrorist sort that the religion needs to take care of too (treatment of women and education for example).0
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As a Muslim, I in no way was even remotely thinking that you're some religious supremacist or anything like that. Maybe a little uninformed but hey, who isn't these days. B-)0
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bootlegger10 wrote: »bootlegger10 wrote: »bootlegger10 wrote: »
All religions based on the old testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, see themselves as the one and only true religion, and their believers to be better persons, and non believers as lower folks or sinners. Thereby all these religions are based on a believe system which divides and conquers, us against them.... Instead of seeing each other as just another belief system that is equal in value, there is an hierarchy in which the own system is far above that of other religious values. Therefor all religious leaders of these type of religions preach hate in my point of view.
What nations are falling all over themselves to make sure that we don't blame Islam for these extremists? That's right, Christian nations. What nations are accepting millions and millions of Muslim immigrants? That's right, Christian nations.
No, I am not for one second going to believe this pathetic line that all religions are equal or evil.
They accept millions of Muslim immigrants? On what planet do the accept them? They may come to do the filthiest jobs, and piss of when economy comes down. Get blamed of all crime and feared when trying to get a place in society. No Not all religions are equal some are far worse than others in their pathetic conviction of being better than others...
Why are they flocking to these Christian nations then? Why? WHy not stay in their Muslim countries if they are treated so much better? It is the same in the US. If we treat immigrants so badly then why do they keep coming here?
I can't possibly expect to show up in another country with no money and no shared cultural norms and expect to get that middle class job. Sorry. Also, can you understand the fear in these countries when they see what is happening in the countries these people are coming from and also see the brutal attacks in these European countries against something as innocent as a cartoon?
Certainly, it would great that everyone gets along, but these are distinct cultures trying to get along and it isn't going to be easy. I'm not saying that the average Muslim person is bad, but I'm saying that the French person or British person that is leary of a Muslim immigrant is not a bad person either. Even in 2015 it is going to be tough for historically homogenized countries to adapt to immigration of a culture that is distinctly different and is (from what I see in the media) less likely to assimilate to the cultural norms of the country they are immigrating to.
Why did European colonists, went colonizing? Because of economic needs, hunger for adventure, religious suppression or just out of hunger, hope for a life with less struggles and more possibilities. But instead of trying to become part of the society they concurred, they suppressed the native society, and pressured them into slavery. They showed up in other countries, didn't even try to get along, no they expected to own the land and have the BEST jobs. Every native who did have the courage to give the slightest form of resistance got brutally slaughtered. All those countries got robbed out of their natural resources. The Christian faith, excused this behavior by telling those slaved people they finally got enlightened and where brought the only real religion...
In Europe these Muslims got invited in the late sixties and seventies, to do the dirtiest of jobs that no European would do anymore, for the first twenty to thirty years when economy was doing good, the Muslims where accepted as long as they left their roots behind, and adopted the European lifestyle. But most of them where treated hostile, didn't matter how hard they tried to adept. They where called job snatchers, or leaches. In the beginning this treatment wasn't exposed openly, but after 9-11 fear got the overhand and all Muslims got demonized.
If you as young Muslim grow up in such a hostile environment, get demonized whatever you do, and however you act, what is the purpose of trying to adept, if you will never be in favor for getting a job, and always be the first suspect in a crime. Why would you try to adept, why would you bother? Why wouldn't you become the demon society expect you to be?
By the way if Europeans or Americans do immigrate to foreign countries, they all stick together like glue, especially if in this country they don't share a similar cultural background, so if we do it, why don't we allow others to do it too. That is pure measuring with two different standards.
I do believe that western society has a great ownership in this Muslim extremism. I don't approve the violence they use, but i do understand the hatred that has build up for so many years. In my opinion, it's time the West does show some humility, and start to listen to other views in this world, instead of dictating the world how to act, belief and think. Our view isn't the only right view it just an other view upon matters...Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee0 -
Manifest destiny? Anyone hear of it before? I'm sure it was taught in school.0
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bootlegger10 wrote: »And before I get labeled as some sort of cultural or religious supremacist, I think everyone is born equal. I think the vast majority of Muslims are great people, but unfortunately there are a few in those middle eastern countries that make it extremely difficult to the many to overcome a lot of the issues plagueing those countries. But it also appears there are widely accepted views in those countries of a non-terrorist sort that the religion needs to take care of too (treatment of women and education for example).
What do you mean by "everyone is born equal"? Really?? Certainly not in terms of living in a healthy environment, having equal opportunity, having enough to eat.
I recently read an article by Henry Rollins where he talks about having visited many countries that are predominantly of Muslim faith and how the average people in these countries are friendly and decent people. I don't think the average first world person has a clue as to what life and people in Islamic countries are like. That's why I suggested elsewhere that the sharing of creative aspects of our cultures- especially music- would be beneficial to closing the gaps. I also think we (at least here in the U.S.) need to stop spending so much time talking about how screwed up other cultures are and start looking more intently at our own dysfunction and aggression, etc.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
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