Now imagine if you were a Muslim living in the Middle East bootlegger and you're seeing all the shit that's happening to you because of the west. All the bombs dropping on Iraq, all the proxy wars we're fighting in. Why is so hard for some to view things through other peoples eyes? I just don't get it.
Now imagine if you were a Muslim living in the Middle East bootlegger and you're seeing all the shit that's happening to you because of the west. All the bombs dropping on Iraq, all the proxy wars we're fighting in. Why is so hard for some to view things through other peoples eyes? I just don't get it.
Canada has oil but we are not bombing Canada. Venezuela and Brazil have oil but the West are not bombing those countries. In North America, South America, Australia, and Europe there really is no war going on (except for Russia's aggressions).
The West are bombing countries where there are either evil dictators, or the leadership in those countries allows or is unable to prevent terrorist groups from flourishing. Even if you question their intentions (oil, not religion), the USA could not have gone into Afghanistan without the Taliban and Al Qaeda being active there. The USA couldn't have bombed Iraq without Saddam Hussein having killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The West couldn't have taken what little action they took in Syria without an evil dictator killing his opposition. The theme here is that the crimes of those countries internally have led to their strife, and they can question the motives of the West all they want, but those countries are to blame. The world wants stability and these countries are as unstable as they come so the rest of the world has to take action.
I get that someone in those countries hates America because we drop bombs and then become terrorists, but I'm not going to say that we are to blame like others in this thread. The culture of violence in these countries is to blame. I'm 99% certain that all Americans would be horrified if we went in and bombed Brazil to get their natural resources. I'm not an expert on Brazil, but I've not read any stories of Brazil's president gassing his own people and sending suicide bombers into markets. Most in the west went to help innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq live a free life that is free of day to day fear of extremists. Sure, we may have backed the least of two evils along the way, but we have no choice in some cases.
Again in my opinion all religious leaders are doing this...
What do you mean? What are the all doing?
All religions based on the old testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, see themselves as the one and only true religion, and their believers to be better persons, and non believers as lower folks or sinners. Thereby all these religions are based on a believe system which divides and conquers, us against them.... Instead of seeing each other as just another belief system that is equal in value, there is an hierarchy in which the own system is far above that of other religious values. Therefor all religious leaders of these type of religions preach hate in my point of view.
What nations are falling all over themselves to make sure that we don't blame Islam for these extremists? That's right, Christian nations. What nations are accepting millions and millions of Muslim immigrants? That's right, Christian nations.
No, I am not for one second going to believe this pathetic line that all religions are equal or evil.
They accept millions of Muslim immigrants? On what planet do the accept them? They may come to do the filthiest jobs, and piss of when economy comes down. Get blamed of all crime and feared when trying to get a place in society. No Not all religions are equal some are far worse than others in their pathetic conviction of being better than others...
What countries tend to be the most stable? Historically Christian nations or Muslim nations? What country would a women likely have more freedom in? Would you be more likely to be killed building a Mosque in the USA or a church in Iraq? Keep digging your hole that somehow Christians are responsible for all the evils of the world, or own proportionally more than their fair share. You are close to hitting bedrock.
Again, you couldn't be more wrong. Have you seen the pie chart I've posted a million times with the US and how many years we've been involved in wars in our young 239 years of existence? It's i believe at 218 years now. That's a staggering chart.
But hey, I'm not a crazy lunatic Muslim fanatic. You can have any view u want on me, my prophet my god, whoever u want. Some people really chose to know and other chose to watch mainstream western media outlets. Which u have every right to do.
Edit-bootlegger, u read the article I posted? Just curious as to what u got out of it.
Thirty. Reread the third paragraph. Or dont . I dont give a fuck.there appears to be a pattern developing of not reading what is actually written.
the last paragraph shows that is no surprise that events such as this occur. Someone said that I am victim blaming. No. I am owning our part in this. We are not defenseless nor helpless. We set this shit up without a care in the world and become outraged the rest of the world or parts of it dont fall in line with our selfserving bullshit.
anyone unwilling to look at their part is sociopathic. Actively work for the solution or remain the chief part of the problem. Denial and willful ignorance.
have a nice day.
I read the 3rd... but it goes hand in the hand with the 4th: France was a chief perp in this so long ago. That history does not justify nor excuse what we see today , but it goes a long way to explain it. "WE" are just the latest in a long line of one fucking over another. Eventually the one getting fucked will strike back.
So not just "religion" "OWNS" this. we all do. from the people we put into power to the bullshit we buy from corps doing the exploiting today. WE OWN THIS. HUMANITY OWNS THIS. Fucking parasites we are.
Sooooo... exactly what did I miss? 'We are all parasites that deserve this' is how this reads. We deserve to get shot because we buy oil for our cars. If we'd just stick to local economies and ride horses... nobody would have to get shot in their office while drawing cartoons.
Come on, man. You're waaaay off base here.
No, he is stating the exact same thing that you did in the spanking thread. You don't condone it, but you understand why it happens. That is all he is saying.
And before I get labeled as some sort of cultural or religious supremacist, I think everyone is born equal. I think the vast majority of Muslims are great people, but unfortunately there are a few in those middle eastern countries that make it extremely difficult to the many to overcome a lot of the issues plagueing those countries. But it also appears there are widely accepted views in those countries of a non-terrorist sort that the religion needs to take care of too (treatment of women and education for example).
As a Muslim, I in no way was even remotely thinking that you're some religious supremacist or anything like that. Maybe a little uninformed but hey, who isn't these days. B-)
Again in my opinion all religious leaders are doing this...
What do you mean? What are the all doing?
All religions based on the old testament, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, see themselves as the one and only true religion, and their believers to be better persons, and non believers as lower folks or sinners. Thereby all these religions are based on a believe system which divides and conquers, us against them.... Instead of seeing each other as just another belief system that is equal in value, there is an hierarchy in which the own system is far above that of other religious values. Therefor all religious leaders of these type of religions preach hate in my point of view.
What nations are falling all over themselves to make sure that we don't blame Islam for these extremists? That's right, Christian nations. What nations are accepting millions and millions of Muslim immigrants? That's right, Christian nations.
No, I am not for one second going to believe this pathetic line that all religions are equal or evil.
They accept millions of Muslim immigrants? On what planet do the accept them? They may come to do the filthiest jobs, and piss of when economy comes down. Get blamed of all crime and feared when trying to get a place in society. No Not all religions are equal some are far worse than others in their pathetic conviction of being better than others...
Why are they flocking to these Christian nations then? Why? WHy not stay in their Muslim countries if they are treated so much better? It is the same in the US. If we treat immigrants so badly then why do they keep coming here?
I can't possibly expect to show up in another country with no money and no shared cultural norms and expect to get that middle class job. Sorry. Also, can you understand the fear in these countries when they see what is happening in the countries these people are coming from and also see the brutal attacks in these European countries against something as innocent as a cartoon?
Certainly, it would great that everyone gets along, but these are distinct cultures trying to get along and it isn't going to be easy. I'm not saying that the average Muslim person is bad, but I'm saying that the French person or British person that is leary of a Muslim immigrant is not a bad person either. Even in 2015 it is going to be tough for historically homogenized countries to adapt to immigration of a culture that is distinctly different and is (from what I see in the media) less likely to assimilate to the cultural norms of the country they are immigrating to.
Why did European colonists, went colonizing? Because of economic needs, hunger for adventure, religious suppression or just out of hunger, hope for a life with less struggles and more possibilities. But instead of trying to become part of the society they concurred, they suppressed the native society, and pressured them into slavery. They showed up in other countries, didn't even try to get along, no they expected to own the land and have the BEST jobs. Every native who did have the courage to give the slightest form of resistance got brutally slaughtered. All those countries got robbed out of their natural resources. The Christian faith, excused this behavior by telling those slaved people they finally got enlightened and where brought the only real religion...
In Europe these Muslims got invited in the late sixties and seventies, to do the dirtiest of jobs that no European would do anymore, for the first twenty to thirty years when economy was doing good, the Muslims where accepted as long as they left their roots behind, and adopted the European lifestyle. But most of them where treated hostile, didn't matter how hard they tried to adept. They where called job snatchers, or leaches. In the beginning this treatment wasn't exposed openly, but after 9-11 fear got the overhand and all Muslims got demonized.
If you as young Muslim grow up in such a hostile environment, get demonized whatever you do, and however you act, what is the purpose of trying to adept, if you will never be in favor for getting a job, and always be the first suspect in a crime. Why would you try to adept, why would you bother? Why wouldn't you become the demon society expect you to be?
By the way if Europeans or Americans do immigrate to foreign countries, they all stick together like glue, especially if in this country they don't share a similar cultural background, so if we do it, why don't we allow others to do it too. That is pure measuring with two different standards.
I do believe that western society has a great ownership in this Muslim extremism. I don't approve the violence they use, but i do understand the hatred that has build up for so many years. In my opinion, it's time the West does show some humility, and start to listen to other views in this world, instead of dictating the world how to act, belief and think. Our view isn't the only right view it just an other view upon matters...
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
And before I get labeled as some sort of cultural or religious supremacist, I think everyone is born equal. I think the vast majority of Muslims are great people, but unfortunately there are a few in those middle eastern countries that make it extremely difficult to the many to overcome a lot of the issues plagueing those countries. But it also appears there are widely accepted views in those countries of a non-terrorist sort that the religion needs to take care of too (treatment of women and education for example).
What do you mean by "everyone is born equal"? Really?? Certainly not in terms of living in a healthy environment, having equal opportunity, having enough to eat.
I recently read an article by Henry Rollins where he talks about having visited many countries that are predominantly of Muslim faith and how the average people in these countries are friendly and decent people. I don't think the average first world person has a clue as to what life and people in Islamic countries are like. That's why I suggested elsewhere that the sharing of creative aspects of our cultures- especially music- would be beneficial to closing the gaps. I also think we (at least here in the U.S.) need to stop spending so much time talking about how screwed up other cultures are and start looking more intently at our own dysfunction and aggression, etc.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Jesus Harold....I need to get these people out of my house and sit down at a proper keyboard to reply to some of these one sided views of history and culture. Unreal.
I'm behind on this story but.. what's this I read about Helric fredoun? Chief investigator committed suicide last night with his service weapon? Can't find any mention on any mainstream sites. Don't know if I have his title right.
When a terrorist act occurs, there is an overwhelming desire here to put blame on something. I think we are over complicating this. The blame lies on the murdering bastards that pulled the triggers. It's not society's fault, it's not America's or Frances fault, nor is it the middle easts fault.
These guys are terrorists. Plain and simple. No amount of negotiations will ever change that. There will always be people that hate the west. The blame lies solely on them.
You guys, the police commissioner was found dead of an APPARENT suicide. You guys don't find that odd. And oddly enough, the article states that in nov 2013 he himself found another police chief or someone like that dead of an APPARENT suicide. Very strange...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,760
Right brian? And with ALL the news coverage in France, you'd think this would be "BREAKING BEWS!!!" But not surprisingly, crickets on this matter. Strange, very very strange
Why is the headline "Another Mossad victim?" What evidence is there - or even indication - that Israel had anything to do with this police man's death?
Maybe this is a little of topic but amnesty recently showed a report about some countries on the "bad list" not taking responsibility for refuges in the world. I think it was interesting to read about countries very rich in oil with the same language religion and everything (Saudi Arabia, Quatar, Bahrain, Kuwait among others Not taking in a single refuge Into their countries. These countries are even fairly close to Syria where many refuges comes from right now. I find this disturbing actually.
What I find really bizarre is that Qatar bought $12-15 BILLION of military equipment from the US last year. For those of you who don't know, supposedly Qatar funds Hamas. Now isn't that a conflict of interest?
What I find bizarre is that the US taxpayers (myself included) shell out 4 billion a year in "aid" to Israel while OUR bridges and roads are crumbling. Stop using my money to build illegal settlements in a desert and use it to repair OUR infrastructure.
At least Qatar is paying and not sitting around with their hands out.
Rssesq, unfortunately that number is actually WRONG. By the end with all the loans with no payback needed and all the other bullshit money hidden around we give them, it totals somewhere in the 9-12 billion. That means we give Israel 9-12 billion dollars a year without them having to pay us back. Countries don't even make that and we give it away. And someone actually made a statement about how we give Palestine $400 MILLION. That's $400 MILLION to 9-12 BILLION. Some difference ey? Who's done more harm to our country between the 2? Think about it.
Despite all medical efforts, a pregnant Muslim woman who was attacked by two Islamophobic men in the Paris suburb of Argenteuil on Thursday suffered a miscarriage and lost her baby, her lawyer said on Tuesday. The 21-year-old Muslim woman, who was four months pregnant, was physically attacked by two men. The attackers first tried taking her headscarf off and later cut off her hair and tore part of her clothing. After she screamed out that she was pregnant, one of the attackers started kicking her in the stomach. She was taken to Argenteuil hospital where she underwent treatment for injuries. Daily Mail reported that the police said that the men had shouted racist insults at the woman, saying that the veil was no longer acceptable in France. “Her husband called me this this afternoon. She lost the baby,” the lawyer told AFP news agency. He added that the family were devastated by the tragedy and would not be making any further comment. French police officer involved in the investigation confirmed to AFP that she lost her baby. The prosecutor for Pointoise, Yves Jannier, also said the woman had been kicked in the hip before she managed to flee. In a related incident, another Muslim woman wearing a headscarf was also attacked three weeks ago in the same region of Paris.
A massive terrorist attack by Boko Haram in the city of Baga in northeastern Nigeria. 1500-2000 people killed, may be more but on the European news of 13.00 PM there was only information about Paris. The conclusion that can be drawn from this is simple. When you are poor, you are not worth much if you are poor and black then you're worth nothing. And this is not the first time that The news and all other media ignore major accidents and slaughters in Africa. The cause of the attack in Paris is the instability of too many countries. Afghanistan, Somalia, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Libya, Ukraine and all the Sahara countries. An instability that we, the West have largely allowed and sometimes even caused in our endless greed. The result will be more terror attacks. It is impossible to verify. If the cracks get bigger, there will be more and more and bigger fish swim through. The only way to reverse this is a structural reform of capitalism. When we begin today terrorism will expand still for another 8 years, then it will stabilize for five years and then the decrease begins because the soil and reason disappears. I do not see this happening. I expect exactly the opposite, people will feel threatened and are simply not able to oversee the entire situation and are only able to think short-term. The result will be more support for right wing people. When those people get more influence then they already have the soil and reason will be bigger, the result will be more terror attacks. And more terror means more right wing people etc. etc. The end will be, cameras everywhere, the army and police everywhere and still no safety.
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Comments
Canada has oil but we are not bombing Canada. Venezuela and Brazil have oil but the West are not bombing those countries. In North America, South America, Australia, and Europe there really is no war going on (except for Russia's aggressions).
The West are bombing countries where there are either evil dictators, or the leadership in those countries allows or is unable to prevent terrorist groups from flourishing. Even if you question their intentions (oil, not religion), the USA could not have gone into Afghanistan without the Taliban and Al Qaeda being active there. The USA couldn't have bombed Iraq without Saddam Hussein having killed hundreds of thousands of innocent people. The West couldn't have taken what little action they took in Syria without an evil dictator killing his opposition. The theme here is that the crimes of those countries internally have led to their strife, and they can question the motives of the West all they want, but those countries are to blame. The world wants stability and these countries are as unstable as they come so the rest of the world has to take action.
I get that someone in those countries hates America because we drop bombs and then become terrorists, but I'm not going to say that we are to blame like others in this thread. The culture of violence in these countries is to blame. I'm 99% certain that all Americans would be horrified if we went in and bombed Brazil to get their natural resources. I'm not an expert on Brazil, but I've not read any stories of Brazil's president gassing his own people and sending suicide bombers into markets. Most in the west went to help innocent people in Afghanistan and Iraq live a free life that is free of day to day fear of extremists. Sure, we may have backed the least of two evils along the way, but we have no choice in some cases.
What countries tend to be the most stable? Historically Christian nations or Muslim nations? What country would a women likely have more freedom in? Would you be more likely to be killed building a Mosque in the USA or a church in Iraq? Keep digging your hole that somehow Christians are responsible for all the evils of the world, or own proportionally more than their fair share. You are close to hitting bedrock.
But hey, I'm not a crazy lunatic Muslim fanatic. You can have any view u want on me, my prophet my god, whoever u want. Some people really chose to know and other chose to watch mainstream western media outlets. Which u have every right to do.
Edit-bootlegger, u read the article I posted? Just curious as to what u got out of it.
No, he is stating the exact same thing that you did in the spanking thread. You don't condone it, but you understand why it happens. That is all he is saying.
www.headstonesband.com
Why did European colonists, went colonizing? Because of economic needs, hunger for adventure, religious suppression or just out of hunger, hope for a life with less struggles and more possibilities. But instead of trying to become part of the society they concurred, they suppressed the native society, and pressured them into slavery. They showed up in other countries, didn't even try to get along, no they expected to own the land and have the BEST jobs. Every native who did have the courage to give the slightest form of resistance got brutally slaughtered. All those countries got robbed out of their natural resources. The Christian faith, excused this behavior by telling those slaved people they finally got enlightened and where brought the only real religion...
In Europe these Muslims got invited in the late sixties and seventies, to do the dirtiest of jobs that no European would do anymore, for the first twenty to thirty years when economy was doing good, the Muslims where accepted as long as they left their roots behind, and adopted the European lifestyle. But most of them where treated hostile, didn't matter how hard they tried to adept. They where called job snatchers, or leaches. In the beginning this treatment wasn't exposed openly, but after 9-11 fear got the overhand and all Muslims got demonized.
If you as young Muslim grow up in such a hostile environment, get demonized whatever you do, and however you act, what is the purpose of trying to adept, if you will never be in favor for getting a job, and always be the first suspect in a crime. Why would you try to adept, why would you bother? Why wouldn't you become the demon society expect you to be?
By the way if Europeans or Americans do immigrate to foreign countries, they all stick together like glue, especially if in this country they don't share a similar cultural background, so if we do it, why don't we allow others to do it too. That is pure measuring with two different standards.
I do believe that western society has a great ownership in this Muslim extremism. I don't approve the violence they use, but i do understand the hatred that has build up for so many years. In my opinion, it's time the West does show some humility, and start to listen to other views in this world, instead of dictating the world how to act, belief and think. Our view isn't the only right view it just an other view upon matters...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
What do you mean by "everyone is born equal"? Really?? Certainly not in terms of living in a healthy environment, having equal opportunity, having enough to eat.
I recently read an article by Henry Rollins where he talks about having visited many countries that are predominantly of Muslim faith and how the average people in these countries are friendly and decent people. I don't think the average first world person has a clue as to what life and people in Islamic countries are like. That's why I suggested elsewhere that the sharing of creative aspects of our cultures- especially music- would be beneficial to closing the gaps. I also think we (at least here in the U.S.) need to stop spending so much time talking about how screwed up other cultures are and start looking more intently at our own dysfunction and aggression, etc.
I'm behind on this story but.. what's this I read about Helric fredoun? Chief investigator committed suicide last night with his service weapon? Can't find any mention on any mainstream sites. Don't know if I have his title right.
http://alternative-news.tk/police-commissioner-of-charlie-hebdo-event-found-dead/
These guys are terrorists. Plain and simple. No amount of negotiations will ever change that. There will always be people that hate the west. The blame lies solely on them.
Damn,WTF! Surprisingly little news on the web about this. The headline at this site:
http://www.medhajnews.com/article.php?id=NTM0MA==
suggests it might be a murder but why no news about this on major sources?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I think it was interesting to read about countries very rich in oil with the same language religion and everything (Saudi Arabia, Quatar, Bahrain, Kuwait among others Not taking in a single refuge Into their countries.
These countries are even fairly close to Syria where many refuges comes from right now. I find this disturbing actually.
Peace
At least Qatar is paying and not sitting around with their hands out.
http://mobile.todayszaman.com/latest-news_pregnant-muslim-woman-attacked-in-paris-loses-baby_318574.html
Despite all medical efforts, a pregnant Muslim woman who was attacked by two Islamophobic men in the Paris suburb of Argenteuil on Thursday suffered a miscarriage and lost her baby, her lawyer said on Tuesday.
The 21-year-old Muslim woman, who was four months pregnant, was physically attacked by two men. The attackers first tried taking her headscarf off and later cut off her hair and tore part of her clothing. After she screamed out that she was pregnant, one of the attackers started kicking her in the stomach.
She was taken to Argenteuil hospital where she underwent treatment for injuries.
Daily Mail reported that the police said that the men had shouted racist insults at the woman, saying that the veil was no longer acceptable in France.
“Her husband called me this this afternoon. She lost the baby,” the lawyer told AFP news agency. He added that the family were devastated by the tragedy and would not be making any further comment.
French police officer involved in the investigation confirmed to AFP that she lost her baby.
The prosecutor for Pointoise, Yves Jannier, also said the woman had been kicked in the hip before she managed to flee.
In a related incident, another Muslim woman wearing a headscarf was also attacked three weeks ago in the same region of Paris.
This Muslim Clerk At The Paris Kosher Store Risked His Life To Save Jewish Shoppers
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/10/this-muslim-clerk-at-the-paris-kosher-store-risked-his-life-to-save-jewish-shoppers/
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee