"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire
I agree. But just because one has the right to print anything they want, doesn't mean they ought to.
But Hugh...who deems what's ought-worthy or not?
The person writing it...the editors....I am not suggesting an authoritative body to rule the press. Just some respect for people's beliefs. I have as big an issue with religion as the next guy, but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
-Voltaire
I agree. But just because one has the right to print anything they want, doesn't mean they ought to.
But Hugh...who deems what's ought-worthy or not?
The person writing it...the editors....I am not suggesting an authoritative body to rule the press. Just some respect for people's beliefs. I have as big an issue with religion as the next guy, but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
I do hear what you're saying, but where is the line? Should there even be a line?
I mean, look at comedians and the vast territory covered. Of course some will be offended by words and images - even outraged as is their right (though I would imagine regular folks wouldn't be so pissed to the point of killing others in return)...but they'll live.
But just because one has the right to print anything they want, doesn't mean they ought to. I have as big an issue with religion as the next guy, but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
That is very empathetic thought. Nice.
Also I think that by me printing a cartoon of a priest in bed with a child holding a cross and saying in the thought bubble "lord have mercy" is not an attempt to incite rage just simply putting what is out there.
Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
PJfan, I think the quoting thing is fucked up again (should be attributed to Hugh, not I).
But just because one has the right to print anything they want, doesn't mean they ought to. I have as big an issue with religion as the next guy, but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
That is very empathetic thought. Nice.
Also I think that by me printing a cartoon of a priest in bed with a child holding a cross and saying in the thought bubble "lord have mercy" is not an attempt to incite rage just simply putting what is out there.
I hear what you are saying, but what reality is being put out there by showing Muhammed being fucked in the ass? What political or social statement is that suppposed to represent? I understand the pedophile priest thing....I don't get what sodomizing of someone's prophet accomplishes.
but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
Don't know whose quote this was but if people are going to rage about a comic, the bank getting robbed, the fact the person beside me on the bus can't speak any of the two official languages of the country I live in, etc., they may well just off themselves to save the rest of us who can get along with the way the world runs. Incite rage, SWEET!
Don't like the new country you want to call home and the way they run their bizniz, just fuck off back home. Nobody will miss you. And while you are their don't open a magazine that will put you in a rage.
People on this board trying to defend killing because you are outraged. Fucking odd balls!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
these frigging ass clowns kill thier wifes,children (honor killing) they kill anybody that does not believe in this alla guy given the chance and they want to turn the whole world in a muslim nation and they chop off heads and post the videos on the internet......who gives a flying f^&*$k about thier hurt feelings over a cartoon.....a friggin cartoon ! but some of you want to keep defending thier actions and saying free speech is great..but maybe there are some cartoons that shouldn't be printed so tell me is it o.k to live in fear that these idiots will kill more people just because they find something else offensive ?how far are you guys willing to let this go before you say ENOUGH ! .....DON'T LET FEAR CLOUD YOUR JUDGMENT !!!!
but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
Don't know whose quote this was but if people are going to rage about a comic, the bank getting robbed, the fact the person beside me on the bus can't speak any of the two official languages of the country I live in, etc., they may well just off themselves to save the rest of us who can get along with the way the world runs. Incite rage, SWEET!
Don't like the new country you want to call home and the way they run their bizniz, just fuck off back home. Nobody will miss you. And while you are their don't open a magazine that will put you in a rage.
People on this board trying to defend killing because you are outraged. Fucking odd balls!
but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
Don't know whose quote this was but if people are going to rage about a comic, the bank getting robbed, the fact the person beside me on the bus can't speak any of the two official languages of the country I live in, etc., they may well just off themselves to save the rest of us who can get along with the way the world runs. Incite rage, SWEET!
Don't like the new country you want to call home and the way they run their bizniz, just fuck off back home. Nobody will miss you. And while you are their don't open a magazine that will put you in a rage.
People on this board trying to defend killing because you are outraged. Fucking odd balls!
:-c
Godfather.
Oh Sure, because western society never tried by force to press others in our way of seeing this wright? O, No we are so keen on free speech that we just invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, to "defend" free speech! How much civilians did we killed while we were there? 12 or just a few more? Sure, freedom of speech is marvelous if everyone does agree with you...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
I dare anyone to walk to the center of Paris, grab a mic, and deny the holocaust. Yup, freedom of speech.
Oh and GF, you fucken suck as a human being. And I honestly don't care for you at all anymore. You are what faux and all the bullshit media want. You are their end goal. People like you. How on earth someone can say the shit you say and be happy with them self is beyond amazing. It shows you have NO heart, NO compassion, and NO brain. I would say I feel sorry for you but I don't. I feel sorry for the kids you are raising to turn out just like you. You're no different then all the shit u rage against. I dedicate these word for you:
"American eyes, American eyes. View the world thru American eyes. Bury the past, rob us blind, and leave nothing behind."
Believe me, I know you have no idea who said that being you didn't even know Murdock was your glorious leader. How u didn't know him is beyond words.
Oh and GF, I'm enjoying the sun out here in so-cal till Monday.
How is it possible that the papers scream about the 12 death cartoonists, but don't pay much attention about the 50 violent attacks on Muslim citizens in France since the attack on Charlie Hebdo (even with grenade loungers)? Freedom of speech?
Why does it looks like the only response to violence seems to be more violence? Where does it end? What about some peaceful solutions, or did we get way past that form of solutions? I sure hope we're not!
Post edited by Aafke on
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I dare anyone to walk to the center of Paris, grab a mic, and deny the holocaust. Yup, freedom of speech.
Oh and GF, you fucken suck as a human being. And I honestly don't care for you at all anymore. You are what faux and all the bullshit media want. You are their end goal. People like you. How on earth someone can say the shit you say and be happy with them self is beyond amazing. It shows you have NO heart, NO compassion, and NO brain. I would say I feel sorry for you but I don't. I feel sorry for the kids you are raising to turn out just like you. You're no different then all the shit u rage against. I dedicate these word for you:
"American eyes, American eyes. View the world thru American eyes. Bury the past, rob us blind, and leave nothing behind."
Believe me, I know you have no idea who said that being you didn't even know Murdock was your glorious leader. How u didn't know him is beyond words.
Oh and GF, I'm enjoying the sun out here in so-cal till Monday.
ahhhhh now I see, where in so cal ? enjoy your weekend......then go home.
these frigging ass clowns kill thier wifes,children (honor killing) they kill anybody that does not believe in this alla guy given the chance and they want to turn the whole world in a muslim nation and they chop off heads and post the videos on the internet......who gives a flying f^&*$k about thier hurt feelings over a cartoon.....a friggin cartoon ! but some of you want to keep defending thier actions and saying free speech is great..but maybe there are some cartoons that shouldn't be printed so tell me is it o.k to live in fear that these idiots will kill more people just because they find something else offensive ?how far are you guys willing to let this go before you say ENOUGH ! .....DON'T LET FEAR CLOUD YOUR JUDGMENT !!!!
Godfather.
Maybe what some of us are saying has nothing to do with living in fear of repercussions or other reasons you assume. It's hard to argue that these comics have any great comedic value, nor do they add anything to the actual discussion of issues. They are simply published "because we can". And as human beings, I'd like to think we can aim higher than just doing things "because we can". Imagine actually living with a person who continually did things to annoy you for no other reason than "because I can". Does that get anyone anywhere we'd like to be in life?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I'm in LA gf, solano canyon, real close to the police academy. Mite decide to stay longer, shit even thinking about moving back to Cali. Seeing how there's so many fucktards here, you guys can use some smarts amongst you.
And speaking of ass clowns god father, you are a republican right? Isn't it required for you to be that same "ass clown" to be a member of the republicans? Seeing how so many of them in congress or capital hill prefer the ass over anything else.
Sure, journalism can be challenging and uncomfortable without being outright offensive...but who decides what is offensive? And to who? If something is offensive to some, should it not be shown at all? Never going to please everyone, particularly in today's world. I think a magazine that pushes the envelope should be allowed to, and those that choose not to read it should ignore it.
*insert thumbs-up dude*
welp, if the reprinting of the dutch cartoon was offensive enough to get someone to firebomb the CH offices in 2011, I would personally think I wouldn't keep poking that particular bear.
From my seat, if they continue to poke at this, then next time(there will be a next time) I will have zero empathy or sympathy.
Mickeyrat, yours is one of the voices I most respect on this board. I always appreciate your takes and insight, even when we disagree. Especially when we disagree. For that reason I'm troubled by the quote above. It reads like you are absolutely blaming the victim for what happened in Paris. Other posters have claimed in this thread that no one here is doing that, yet this quote seems to be proof positive that some are. "Poking the bear" is the reason why these attacks happened? If they continue to poke the bear, and another group of artists are slaughtered, you will have no empathy or sympathy?
these frigging ass clowns kill thier wifes,children (honor killing) they kill anybody that does not believe in this alla guy given the chance and they want to turn the whole world in a muslim nation and they chop off heads and post the videos on the internet......who gives a flying f^&*$k about thier hurt feelings over a cartoon.....a friggin cartoon ! but some of you want to keep defending thier actions and saying free speech is great..but maybe there are some cartoons that shouldn't be printed so tell me is it o.k to live in fear that these idiots will kill more people just because they find something else offensive ?how far are you guys willing to let this go before you say ENOUGH ! .....DON'T LET FEAR CLOUD YOUR JUDGMENT !!!!
Godfather.
Maybe what some of us are saying has nothing to do with living in fear of repercussions or other reasons you assume. It's hard to argue that these comics have any great comedic value, nor do they add anything to the actual discussion of issues. They are simply published "because we can". And as human beings, I'd like to think we can aim higher than just doing things "because we can". Imagine actually living with a person who continually did things to annoy you for no other reason than "because I can". Does that get anyone anywhere we'd like to be in life?
A life for a cartoon he says. Hahaha, I guess 1,000,000 fucken dead Arab Muslims for oil is A OK for this cowboy. We're having a huge BBQ this sat in LA if u want to come GF. Lots of food and drinks. Mite even have some republicans there for you. Let me know, we can make some swine for u as well.
I'm in LA gf, solano canyon, real close to the police academy. Mite decide to stay longer, shit even thinking about moving back to Cali. Seeing how there's so many fucktards here, you guys can use some smarts amongst you.
#freedomofspeech #iamcharlie
awww that's not very nice,California has some of the brightest minds in the world, BTW my post was not aimed at you but your reaction may say more about you than you know, what part of my post made you so angry ? did I post anything that was not true ? or has not been seen and read in just about all media outlets and if this is not your way of muslam then why would you be angry at a true statement that does not reflect on you or your beliefs ?
I've read attacks on my personal beliefs all the time on here infact there is a thread titled "there is no God" but.....you don't read anything from me about children of posters or I don't like you anymore....c'mon man lets be real I don't care if you like me or not it means nothing to me but as I said your reaction was ....well lets say confusing compared to your other peace and love posts.......any comment on this ?
Jason - maybe there are more cartoons than I realized criticizing other religions - I was talking about the ones I found in my own searches. I would be willing to bet that there is a huge imbalance in the ratios between the religions focused on in their cartoons. I'm sure Greenwald would have looked into that more than me and he said the same thing. I guess like a schoolyard bully, when your sole purpose is to shock, provoke, and insult, you keep going after the ones who react strongest to your provocation. There is something to be said for turning the other cheek. But also something to be said for not being a douchebag bully.
Of course it would be insane to issue a death warrant over a comic. Do you really think I would disagree with that? And that's the thing - it IS insane people doing this! Why are they insane, and what can we do to prevent more people from devolving into this insanity? Of course, that's not up to us because we play no part in fostering extremism.....right.
They hired a muslim security guard? What does this prove? That they don't hate all muslims? That doesn't really factor into this discussion.
but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
Don't know whose quote this was but if people are going to rage about a comic, the bank getting robbed, the fact the person beside me on the bus can't speak any of the two official languages of the country I live in, etc., they may well just off themselves to save the rest of us who can get along with the way the world runs. Incite rage, SWEET!
Don't like the new country you want to call home and the way they run their bizniz, just fuck off back home. Nobody will miss you. And while you are their don't open a magazine that will put you in a rage.
People on this board trying to defend killing because you are outraged. Fucking odd balls!
Who is defending the killings? Mickey's post (quoted by Jimmy above) is the closest anyone has come, but it doesn't defend them. It is a statement of common sense. If you are bullying a kid at school, kicking his ass and stealing his lunch money for years....and one day he snaps and gets the better of you....do you step up the bullying and find sympathizers to your position to help you really beat him down, or do decide on some introspection and reconsider your approach to getting what you want?
There was a time I thought you contributed some good ideas to this board, evenflow....but this post stoops to GF-level ignorance.
That person beside you on the bus might have just arrived from a country we're bombing. Just buried a kid back home. Spouse is still trying to get here. Working three jobs and taking English classes at night to try to assimilate so 'fucking odd balls' won't think they should kill themselves just for being who they often are: victims of OUR greed.
When did printing cartoons become bullying? Having your office firebombed is being bullied. Murdering 12 cartoonists is bullying. Printing cartoons is not bullying.
When did printing cartoons become bullying? Having your office firebombed is being bullied. Murdering 12 cartoonists is bullying. Printing cartoons is not bullying.
When did printing cartoons become bullying? Having your office firebombed is being bullied. Murdering 12 cartoonists is bullying. Printing cartoons is not bullying.
When did everyone become so thin skinned?
Think about your question. If we're still using a schoolyard analogy - would a kid not get in shit for creating and passing around a degrading cartoon about a classmate or their beliefs? It's still bullying.
And the cartoons are only the tip of the iceberg - you're making the same mistake GF just did. you're ignoring all of the context and nuance, which is the whole problem with this discussion. This didn't happen over free speech and offensive cartoons! might have been the trigger, but these people didn't start down an extremist path when they read these cartoons - there is much more to it.
Comments
The person writing it...the editors....I am not suggesting an authoritative body to rule the press. Just some respect for people's beliefs. I have as big an issue with religion as the next guy, but I am not going to print anything that is just an obvious attempt to incite rage.
www.headstonesband.com
Not arguing. Just a different perspective is all.
www.headstonesband.com
Fair enough.
I mean, look at comedians and the vast territory covered. Of course some will be offended by words and images - even outraged as is their right (though I would imagine regular folks wouldn't be so pissed to the point of killing others in return)...but they'll live.
That is very empathetic thought. Nice.
Also I think that by me printing a cartoon of a priest in bed with a child holding a cross and saying in the thought bubble "lord have mercy" is not an attempt to incite rage just simply putting what is out there.
Mods?
Yes. The quoting thing is fucked up again.
Hugh my comment was to you.
I hear what you are saying, but what reality is being put out there by showing Muhammed being fucked in the ass? What political or social statement is that suppposed to represent? I understand the pedophile priest thing....I don't get what sodomizing of someone's prophet accomplishes.
www.headstonesband.com
Don't know whose quote this was but if people are going to rage about a comic, the bank getting robbed, the fact the person beside me on the bus can't speak any of the two official languages of the country I live in, etc., they may well just off themselves to save the rest of us who can get along with the way the world runs. Incite rage, SWEET!
Don't like the new country you want to call home and the way they run their bizniz, just fuck off back home. Nobody will miss you. And while you are their don't open a magazine that will put you in a rage.
People on this board trying to defend killing because you are outraged. Fucking odd balls!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Godfather.
:-c
Godfather.
Oh Sure, because western society never tried by force to press others in our way of seeing this wright? O, No we are so keen on free speech that we just invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, to "defend" free speech! How much civilians did we killed while we were there? 12 or just a few more? Sure, freedom of speech is marvelous if everyone does agree with you...
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
Oh and GF, you fucken suck as a human being. And I honestly don't care for you at all anymore. You are what faux and all the bullshit media want. You are their end goal. People like you. How on earth someone can say the shit you say and be happy with them self is beyond amazing. It shows you have NO heart, NO compassion, and NO brain. I would say I feel sorry for you but I don't. I feel sorry for the kids you are raising to turn out just like you. You're no different then all the shit u rage against. I dedicate these word for you:
"American eyes, American eyes. View the world thru American eyes. Bury the past, rob us blind, and leave nothing behind."
Believe me, I know you have no idea who said that being you didn't even know Murdock was your glorious leader. How u didn't know him is beyond words.
Oh and GF, I'm enjoying the sun out here in so-cal till Monday.
#freedomofspeech #iamcharlie
Why does it looks like the only response to violence seems to be more violence? Where does it end? What about some peaceful solutions, or did we get way past that form of solutions? I sure hope we're not!
"The meeting of two personalities is like the contact of two chemical substances: if there is any reaction, both are transformed".- Carl Jung.
"Art does not reproduce what we see; rather, it makes us see."- Paul Klee
(and soak up the sun this weekend)
ahhhhh now I see, where in so cal ? enjoy your weekend......then go home.
Godfather.
Maybe what some of us are saying has nothing to do with living in fear of repercussions or other reasons you assume. It's hard to argue that these comics have any great comedic value, nor do they add anything to the actual discussion of issues. They are simply published "because we can". And as human beings, I'd like to think we can aim higher than just doing things "because we can". Imagine actually living with a person who continually did things to annoy you for no other reason than "because I can". Does that get anyone anywhere we'd like to be in life?
#freedomofspeech #iamcharlie
#freesomofspeech #iamcharlie
Mickeyrat, yours is one of the voices I most respect on this board. I always appreciate your takes and insight, even when we disagree. Especially when we disagree. For that reason I'm troubled by the quote above. It reads like you are absolutely blaming the victim for what happened in Paris. Other posters have claimed in this thread that no one here is doing that, yet this quote seems to be proof positive that some are. "Poking the bear" is the reason why these attacks happened? If they continue to poke the bear, and another group of artists are slaughtered, you will have no empathy or sympathy?
Am I misreading what you have intended here?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
true enough but a life for a cartoon ?
Godfather.
#freedomofspeech #iamcharlie
awww that's not very nice,California has some of the brightest minds in the world, BTW my post was not aimed at you but your reaction may say more about you than you know, what part of my post made you so angry ? did I post anything that was not true ? or has not been seen and read in just about all media outlets and if this is not your way of muslam then why would you be angry at a true statement that does not reflect on you or your beliefs ?
I've read attacks on my personal beliefs all the time on here infact there is a thread titled "there is no God" but.....you don't read anything from me about children of posters or I don't like you anymore....c'mon man lets be real I don't care if you like me or not it means nothing to me but as I said your reaction was ....well lets say confusing compared to your other peace and love posts.......any comment on this ?
Godfather.
Of course it would be insane to issue a death warrant over a comic. Do you really think I would disagree with that? And that's the thing - it IS insane people doing this! Why are they insane, and what can we do to prevent more people from devolving into this insanity? Of course, that's not up to us because we play no part in fostering extremism.....right.
They hired a muslim security guard? What does this prove? That they don't hate all muslims? That doesn't really factor into this discussion.
Who is defending the killings? Mickey's post (quoted by Jimmy above) is the closest anyone has come, but it doesn't defend them. It is a statement of common sense. If you are bullying a kid at school, kicking his ass and stealing his lunch money for years....and one day he snaps and gets the better of you....do you step up the bullying and find sympathizers to your position to help you really beat him down, or do decide on some introspection and reconsider your approach to getting what you want?
There was a time I thought you contributed some good ideas to this board, evenflow....but this post stoops to GF-level ignorance.
That person beside you on the bus might have just arrived from a country we're bombing. Just buried a kid back home. Spouse is still trying to get here. Working three jobs and taking English classes at night to try to assimilate so 'fucking odd balls' won't think they should kill themselves just for being who they often are: victims of OUR greed.
When did everyone become so thin skinned?
I don't know, but it is a good question.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
And the cartoons are only the tip of the iceberg - you're making the same mistake GF just did. you're ignoring all of the context and nuance, which is the whole problem with this discussion. This didn't happen over free speech and offensive cartoons! might have been the trigger, but these people didn't start down an extremist path when they read these cartoons - there is much more to it.