Enhanced Interrogation Techniques and Torturing Some Folks Memos

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Comments

  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    The Barney song is torture.They shoulda played Beiber and those cats woulda been telling them anything they wanted to know.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    CIA spying on congress and congressional staffers was the tipping point to release the findings.
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Prosecute, to the full extent of the law, all of the parties responsible for the use of torture outlined in CIA report

    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/prosecute-full-extent-law-all-parties-responsible-use-torture-outlined-cia-report/17ZgKTtB
    Petition had almost 100,000 signatures.

    There can be 500,000,000 signatures and you will still have a better chance of seeing Eddie Vedder at starting center for the 2015 Seattle Supersonics then anyone prosecuted for torture.
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056
    edited December 2014
    Rr - I don't think you understand what kind of information is gathered from torture...it's unreliable and almost always completely fabricated...this has been confirmed by the highest levels of government and military. it is used as propaganda; that's the true intent of it. Seeing a person break and spill some elaborate plot is more Hollywood propaganda. Do you realize just how involved the CIA gets with war movies? They were actually able to pull scenes that showed them in any negative light from zero dark thirty. I have to wonder how much critical thinking most people do while thinking they're engaged in simple escapism.


    Now....state-sponsored terrorism....this is where I start repeating myself again. Pilots green-lighted to kill journalists and paramedics. Entire apartment buildings levelled or weddings bombed kill a single person. Sanctions that deny medicine to sick kids. These things are done intentionally, as a matter of policy. Innocent people are absolutely targeted. Then there are the non-policy acts that happen over and over and are only occasionally brought to light.

    The CIA does not always operate with full government knowledge, and even if it did, does that make acts of violence on foreign soil acceptable? Does this view apply to all intelligence agencies, or just American ones? It wouldn't be terrorism if the ISI or VAJA killed americans in their homes? Even if you say no, it's an act of war...does it make it any less heinous? I don't know where this is going - are you still trying to say that terrorists can be tortured because they're terrorists, despite my comment about your Supreme Court? How about mercenaries acting on behalf of government? Not terrorism? Blackwater was responsible for large scale massacres and only low level people were ever prosecuted. Who gives a shit if they're state sponsored? They're acting with immunity, without oversight, and contrary to international laws. You're using semantics to muddy the waters here.

    Also, I always try to differentiate between 'the West', 'NATO' or 'the US' and use the terms in the correct context and at the proper times. I"m well aware that my country has blood on it's hands. This is not an American witch hunt. But lets be clear.....wars involving western/nato nations very rarely happen without US approval.

    Are you going to answer my question about torturing American troops or citizens?
    Post edited by Drowned Out on
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    I agree with JC on this being a self-serving circus show by Congress. They didn't really tell us anything we didn't already know with the exception of the butt-chugging. No mention of black site activity or the real super cruel stuff that has most likely occurred.

    In the immortal words of Dennis Green ...

    "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmQbk5h86w
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • Drowned Out
    Drowned Out Posts: 6,056

    14,000 detainees in Iraq alone....commander of the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, Janis Karpinski: 90% of detainees were of no security value….in wrong place at wrong time:
    http://www.salon.com/2005/11/10/karpinski/

    Now, check out the volume of information in this link….senate committees, intelligence interrogation manuals, quotes from high-ranking officials….
    torture is defined as terrorism…it wastes resources, costs lives, destroys the standing of America on the global stage, creates terrorists, and…..it does NOT work for intelligence gathering:
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/torture-an-executive-summary/5418955


  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    the previous 3 posts are outstanding!

    anyone paying attention to the Intelligence Authorization Act HR 4681? anyone else curious about the timing of the voice vote?
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Dick Cheney On Senate Torture Investigation: 'The Report Is Full Of Crap'

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370055472/dick-cheney-on-senate-torture-investigation-the-report-is-full-of-crap

    Dick admits to him and Bush knowing all about the torture and says he would do it again.

    War criminals.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    dignin said:

    Dick Cheney On Senate Torture Investigation: 'The Report Is Full Of Crap'

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370055472/dick-cheney-on-senate-torture-investigation-the-report-is-full-of-crap

    Dick admits to him and Bush knowing all about the torture and says he would do it again.

    War criminals.

    Has to keep the sheep believing.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    dignin said:

    Dick Cheney On Senate Torture Investigation: 'The Report Is Full Of Crap'

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/12/11/370055472/dick-cheney-on-senate-torture-investigation-the-report-is-full-of-crap

    Dick admits to him and Bush knowing all about the torture and says he would do it again.

    War criminals.

    That's some power right there. To wrongfully know and keep lying about it. To know NOTHING will be done to you. That's some power.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    The USA has No moral standing over any other countries/societies. We are Evildoers.

    Might as well just drop the charade.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Drowned Out said:

    Rr - I don't think you understand what kind of information is gathered from torture...it's unreliable and almost always completely fabricated...this has been confirmed by the highest levels of government and military. it is used as propaganda; that's the true intent of it. Seeing a person break and spill some elaborate plot is more Hollywood propaganda. Do you realize just how involved the CIA gets with war movies? They were actually able to pull scenes that showed them in any negative light from zero dark thirty. I have to wonder how much critical thinking most people do while thinking they're engaged in simple escapism.


    Now....state-sponsored terrorism....this is where I start repeating myself again. Pilots green-lighted to kill journalists and paramedics. Entire apartment buildings levelled or weddings bombed kill a single person. Sanctions that deny medicine to sick kids. These things are done intentionally, as a matter of policy. Innocent people are absolutely targeted. Then there are the non-policy acts that happen over and over and are only occasionally brought to light.

    The CIA does not always operate with full government knowledge, and even if it did, does that make acts of violence on foreign soil acceptable? Does this view apply to all intelligence agencies, or just American ones? It wouldn't be terrorism if the ISI or VAJA killed americans in their homes? Even if you say no, it's an act of war...does it make it any less heinous? I don't know where this is going - are you still trying to say that terrorists can be tortured because they're terrorists, despite my comment about your Supreme Court? How about mercenaries acting on behalf of government? Not terrorism? Blackwater was responsible for large scale massacres and only low level people were ever prosecuted. Who gives a shit if they're state sponsored? They're acting with immunity, without oversight, and contrary to international laws. You're using semantics to muddy the waters here.

    Also, I always try to differentiate between 'the West', 'NATO' or 'the US' and use the terms in the correct context and at the proper times. I"m well aware that my country has blood on it's hands. This is not an American witch hunt. But lets be clear.....wars involving western/nato nations very rarely happen without US approval.

    Are you going to answer my question about torturing American troops or citizens?

    Here's the deal Drowned.
    As always you bring up many thought provoking well thought out questions.I think I'm trying to figure out why I feel the way I do about this subject.I know I don't want innocent people tormented,tortured or detained without cause,and do I agree with what is considered torture.I also want and think we need a strong clandestine intelligence gathering system.And we should go to great lengths to protect our interests.But at what cost?Will it bite us in the ass later?
    So I find myself at a bit of crossroads on this topic.The Muddy Waters of which you speak may be in my head on this one.

  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    rr165892 said:

    Drowned Out said:

    Rr - I don't think you understand what kind of information is gathered from torture...it's unreliable and almost always completely fabricated...this has been confirmed by the highest levels of government and military. it is used as propaganda; that's the true intent of it. Seeing a person break and spill some elaborate plot is more Hollywood propaganda. Do you realize just how involved the CIA gets with war movies? They were actually able to pull scenes that showed them in any negative light from zero dark thirty. I have to wonder how much critical thinking most people do while thinking they're engaged in simple escapism.


    Now....state-sponsored terrorism....this is where I start repeating myself again. Pilots green-lighted to kill journalists and paramedics. Entire apartment buildings levelled or weddings bombed kill a single person. Sanctions that deny medicine to sick kids. These things are done intentionally, as a matter of policy. Innocent people are absolutely targeted. Then there are the non-policy acts that happen over and over and are only occasionally brought to light.

    The CIA does not always operate with full government knowledge, and even if it did, does that make acts of violence on foreign soil acceptable? Does this view apply to all intelligence agencies, or just American ones? It wouldn't be terrorism if the ISI or VAJA killed americans in their homes? Even if you say no, it's an act of war...does it make it any less heinous? I don't know where this is going - are you still trying to say that terrorists can be tortured because they're terrorists, despite my comment about your Supreme Court? How about mercenaries acting on behalf of government? Not terrorism? Blackwater was responsible for large scale massacres and only low level people were ever prosecuted. Who gives a shit if they're state sponsored? They're acting with immunity, without oversight, and contrary to international laws. You're using semantics to muddy the waters here.

    Also, I always try to differentiate between 'the West', 'NATO' or 'the US' and use the terms in the correct context and at the proper times. I"m well aware that my country has blood on it's hands. This is not an American witch hunt. But lets be clear.....wars involving western/nato nations very rarely happen without US approval.

    Are you going to answer my question about torturing American troops or citizens?

    Here's the deal Drowned.
    As always you bring up many thought provoking well thought out questions.I think I'm trying to figure out why I feel the way I do about this subject.I know I don't want innocent people tormented,tortured or detained without cause,and do I agree with what is considered torture.I also want and think we need a strong clandestine intelligence gathering system.And we should go to great lengths to protect our interests.But at what cost?Will it bite us in the ass later?
    So I find myself at a bit of crossroads on this topic.The Muddy Waters of which you speak may be in my head on this one.

    Forgive me for interjecting but when you say our interests, who is the our and what are the interests?

  • rr165892
    rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    Our is The US and her Close allies (The west).
    Interests are safe guarding our people home and away.And protecting our Buisness/financial interests globally.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    callen said:

    The USA has No moral standing over any other countries/societies. We are Evildoers.

    Might as well just drop the charade.

    I hope we cut off all foreign aid. Embrace the evil and save taxpayer money. Haiti can go screw themselves the next time God decides to smote them and their lack of building codes.

    Good luck, John Travolta.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Jason P said:

    callen said:

    The USA has No moral standing over any other countries/societies. We are Evildoers.

    Might as well just drop the charade.

    I hope we cut off all foreign aid. Embrace the evil and save taxpayer money. Haiti can go screw themselves the next time God decides to smote them and their lack of building codes.

    Good luck, John Travolta.
    I agree but there's a better chance of you and I opening up for pearl jam on new years in tel aviv then cutting off foreign aid to Israel.
    What's our "aid" to Haiti compared to Israel anyway?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,305
    JC29856 said:

    Jason P said:

    callen said:

    The USA has No moral standing over any other countries/societies. We are Evildoers.

    Might as well just drop the charade.

    I hope we cut off all foreign aid. Embrace the evil and save taxpayer money. Haiti can go screw themselves the next time God decides to smote them and their lack of building codes.

    Good luck, John Travolta.
    I agree but there's a better chance of you and I opening up for pearl jam on new years in tel aviv then cutting off foreign aid to Israel.
    What's our "aid" to Haiti compared to Israel anyway?
    I agree that "aid" to Israel is BS. Dumb way to justify taxpayer money for aid.

    But it shouldn't deflect that the US is usually the biggest responder to foreign disaster aid in times of dire. No matter the country.

    I'm looking forward to playing "Drifting" on acoustic guitar in Tel Aviv next May. :D
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Jason P said:

    JC29856 said:

    Jason P said:

    callen said:

    The USA has No moral standing over any other countries/societies. We are Evildoers.

    Might as well just drop the charade.

    I hope we cut off all foreign aid. Embrace the evil and save taxpayer money. Haiti can go screw themselves the next time God decides to smote them and their lack of building codes.

    Good luck, John Travolta.
    I agree but there's a better chance of you and I opening up for pearl jam on new years in tel aviv then cutting off foreign aid to Israel.
    What's our "aid" to Haiti compared to Israel anyway?
    I agree that "aid" to Israel is BS. Dumb way to justify taxpayer money for aid.

    But it shouldn't deflect that the US is usually the biggest responder to foreign disaster aid in times of dire. No matter the country.

    I'm looking forward to playing "Drifting" on acoustic guitar in Tel Aviv next May. :D
    Biggest in terms of dollars or % of GDP?
    May? You mean September?

    I'm covering pearl jam covering Otis Reed the dock of the bay
  • JC29856
    JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    If you give a shit go find the transcript of Cheney, formed VP interview on meet the press...very poignant.
    When available ill post it with comments.
  • badbrains
    badbrains Posts: 10,255
    This is brilliant, look at the amount to, clever:

    http://boingboing.net/2014/12/15/skinny-puppy-invoices-us-milit.html

    Industrial band Skinny Puppy sent a $666,000 invoice to US Department of Defense for allegedly using its music to torture prisoners in Guantanamo Bay.

    “We sent them an invoice for our musical services considering they had gone ahead and used our music without our knowledge and used it as an actual weapon against somebody,” Skinny Puppy's Cevin Key told CTV News.“I wouldn’t want to be subjected to any overly loud music for six to 12 hours at a time without a break."

    Above, Skinny Puppy's "Dig It" from their 1986 album, Mind: The Perpetual Intercourse.

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