Tamir Rice shooting (12yr old)

rgambs · November 2014

callen said:
Though we played cowboys and Indians with cheap chrome plastic finish I would not now purchase guns for my children to play with. Not cause I would be afraid of them getting killed just a bad "toy". Enough violence already.

The gun kid had did shoot projectiles so wasn't so harmless as people walked by and he pointed it at them. Anyone find details on what projectiles?

As with Ferguson case both parties at fault including person that provided the air soft pistol.

Plastic or rubber BB's. It was an airsoft gun in both cases, designed to shoot each other in war games like paintball but without the paint...I never understood the folks who get into it.. Pseudo military fantasies...lame!

mickeyrat · November 2014

I would question (as I understand it) why was it the veteran officer wasn't in more control of the response from the get go?

Further in a call such as this, (report of a gun, etc) between the radio call and the arrival, what goes through the mind of an officer or officers (in the case of partners). I assume its a relatively short arrival time.

muskydan · November 2014

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes
muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:
Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....
In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.
Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here
Of course I've never shot someone.

I have feared for my life though- I was attacked by a guy with a machete. No shit. My head was nearly removed from my body in Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast in a small place called Cahuita (in 1992).

I'm gathering you think this cop was fearing for his life based on what you have written. That's kind of what I had written- so are we agreeing or disagreeing?

I'd admit that I am not in the position to best say what emotions might be coursing through my veins after murdering a 12 year old; however, I'm not so sure it's a stretch to suggest that given the cold depravity we can observe of this situation... the cops didn't really care as much for the kid as they might have themselves. So, my naïve opinion is based on what I can see.

And I don't care what cops are trained to do. If the guy was remotely close to a decent human being... he would have noted that he just blew away a 12 year old playing with a bb gun. As such... you'd think he might feel compelled to try and save the kid as he passes from the Earth.

I've been a proponent of the police from day one on these pages. I think they are awesome. However, let's get serious here: this cop isn't getting enshrined in The Good Cop Thread.

K, I see things totally differently w/ this one, but I usually do. Got a question 4 you?? If you had a gun on you in CR would you have used it on the Asshole who tried 2 kill you?

badbrains · November 2014

Yo, where's unsung been? Is he gone?

rgambs · November 2014

badbrains said:
Yo, where's unsung been? Is he gone?

He said he was going to take a break because this place was toxic for him. The gun threads were frustrating him if I remember correctly.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · November 2014

muskydan said:

show previous quotes
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:
Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....
In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.
Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here
Of course I've never shot someone.

I have feared for my life though- I was attacked by a guy with a machete. No shit. My head was nearly removed from my body in Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast in a small place called Cahuita (in 1992).

I'm gathering you think this cop was fearing for his life based on what you have written. That's kind of what I had written- so are we agreeing or disagreeing?

I'd admit that I am not in the position to best say what emotions might be coursing through my veins after murdering a 12 year old; however, I'm not so sure it's a stretch to suggest that given the cold depravity we can observe of this situation... the cops didn't really care as much for the kid as they might have themselves. So, my naïve opinion is based on what I can see.

And I don't care what cops are trained to do. If the guy was remotely close to a decent human being... he would have noted that he just blew away a 12 year old playing with a bb gun. As such... you'd think he might feel compelled to try and save the kid as he passes from the Earth.

I've been a proponent of the police from day one on these pages. I think they are awesome. However, let's get serious here: this cop isn't getting enshrined in The Good Cop Thread.
K, I see things totally differently w/ this one, but I usually do. Got a question 4 you?? If you had a gun on you in CR would you have used it on the Asshole who tried 2 kill you?

That's quite the question.

Here's how I did handle it:

I was half (to 3/4) buzzed and with a buddy from Switzerland I had been travelling with. I sobered up in an instant. The attack was in a spot where there was plenty of room to side-step and dodge. I spent a minute doing that while Daniel was talking him down. The attacker was yelling, "I'm a bad man. I'm a bad man!"

The guy eventually relented, grabbed the sack he had dropped, and literally walked off down a trail into the jungle.

I wanted to leave the place immediately and head inland to San Jose. Daniel figured the threat was over. That same night we went to this soda and there was the attacker with two friends. I immediately bought six Imperials and placed them on the table for the guys. I asked if we were all good. The guy laughed and said, "Yes. Yes we are. I'm sorry bout dat, man. I was having a bad day."

I know. Bad day so attack a guy with a machete?

To your question:

I'm not sure. I think I probably would have displayed it and threaten to us it. I likely would have side-stepped or dodged a couple of times before actually shooting the guy. I'd like to think I would only use the gun as a last resort.

muskydan · December 2014

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

show previous quotes
muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:
Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....
In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.
Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here
Of course I've never shot someone.

I have feared for my life though- I was attacked by a guy with a machete. No shit. My head was nearly removed from my body in Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast in a small place called Cahuita (in 1992).

I'm gathering you think this cop was fearing for his life based on what you have written. That's kind of what I had written- so are we agreeing or disagreeing?

I'd admit that I am not in the position to best say what emotions might be coursing through my veins after murdering a 12 year old; however, I'm not so sure it's a stretch to suggest that given the cold depravity we can observe of this situation... the cops didn't really care as much for the kid as they might have themselves. So, my naïve opinion is based on what I can see.

And I don't care what cops are trained to do. If the guy was remotely close to a decent human being... he would have noted that he just blew away a 12 year old playing with a bb gun. As such... you'd think he might feel compelled to try and save the kid as he passes from the Earth.

I've been a proponent of the police from day one on these pages. I think they are awesome. However, let's get serious here: this cop isn't getting enshrined in The Good Cop Thread.
K, I see things totally differently w/ this one, but I usually do. Got a question 4 you?? If you had a gun on you in CR would you have used it on the Asshole who tried 2 kill you?
That's quite the question.

Here's how I did handle it:

I was half (to 3/4) buzzed and with a buddy from Switzerland I had been travelling with. I sobered up in an instant. The attack was in a spot where there was plenty of room to side-step and dodge. I spent a minute doing that while Daniel was talking him down. The attacker was yelling, "I'm a bad man. I'm a bad man!"

The guy eventually relented, grabbed the sack he had dropped, and literally walked off down a trail into the jungle.

I wanted to leave the place immediately and head inland to San Jose. Daniel figured the threat was over. That same night we went to this soda and there was the attacker with two friends. I immediately bought six Imperials and placed them on the table for the guys. I asked if we were all good. The guy laughed and said, "Yes. Yes we are. I'm sorry bout dat, man. I was having a bad day."

I know. Bad day so attack a guy with a machete?

To your question:

I'm not sure. I think I probably would have displayed it and threaten to us it. I likely would have side-stepped or dodged a couple of times before actually shooting the guy. I'd like to think I would only use the gun as a last resort.

Now that's one fucked up story. The ironic thing is I have heard very similar stories like that since I have travelled CR numerous of times. I now usually go to Nicaragua since its a lot cheaper, but with that you get a lot more Nicos getting all juiced up walking around w/ machetes robbing people. Looking forward to having some Imperials and some Flora rum soon.

Thirty Bills Unpaid · December 2014

muskydan said:

show previous quotes
Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:
Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....
In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.
Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here
Of course I've never shot someone.

I have feared for my life though- I was attacked by a guy with a machete. No shit. My head was nearly removed from my body in Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast in a small place called Cahuita (in 1992).

I'm gathering you think this cop was fearing for his life based on what you have written. That's kind of what I had written- so are we agreeing or disagreeing?

I'd admit that I am not in the position to best say what emotions might be coursing through my veins after murdering a 12 year old; however, I'm not so sure it's a stretch to suggest that given the cold depravity we can observe of this situation... the cops didn't really care as much for the kid as they might have themselves. So, my naïve opinion is based on what I can see.

And I don't care what cops are trained to do. If the guy was remotely close to a decent human being... he would have noted that he just blew away a 12 year old playing with a bb gun. As such... you'd think he might feel compelled to try and save the kid as he passes from the Earth.

I've been a proponent of the police from day one on these pages. I think they are awesome. However, let's get serious here: this cop isn't getting enshrined in The Good Cop Thread.
K, I see things totally differently w/ this one, but I usually do. Got a question 4 you?? If you had a gun on you in CR would you have used it on the Asshole who tried 2 kill you?
That's quite the question.

Here's how I did handle it:

I was half (to 3/4) buzzed and with a buddy from Switzerland I had been travelling with. I sobered up in an instant. The attack was in a spot where there was plenty of room to side-step and dodge. I spent a minute doing that while Daniel was talking him down. The attacker was yelling, "I'm a bad man. I'm a bad man!"

The guy eventually relented, grabbed the sack he had dropped, and literally walked off down a trail into the jungle.

I wanted to leave the place immediately and head inland to San Jose. Daniel figured the threat was over. That same night we went to this soda and there was the attacker with two friends. I immediately bought six Imperials and placed them on the table for the guys. I asked if we were all good. The guy laughed and said, "Yes. Yes we are. I'm sorry bout dat, man. I was having a bad day."

I know. Bad day so attack a guy with a machete?

To your question:

I'm not sure. I think I probably would have displayed it and threaten to us it. I likely would have side-stepped or dodged a couple of times before actually shooting the guy. I'd like to think I would only use the gun as a last resort.
Now that's one fucked up story. The ironic thing is I have heard very similar stories like that since I have travelled CR numerous of times. I now usually go to Nicaragua since its a lot cheaper, but with that you get a lot more Nicos getting all juiced up walking around w/ machetes robbing people. Looking forward to having some Imperials and some Flora rum soon.

Costa Rica was my 'coming of age'. I travelled there by myself with no idea what I was going to do with absolutely no itinerary. Literally hopped off the plane and scratched my head.

It all worked out perfectly. I got everything a young man could hope to get from a backpacking trip. Loved the country. Loved the people. Flying back home I knew I had grown more than I had ever thought possible.

Too bad we couldn't just beam ourselves over there for a few Imperials before dinner and then high five and beam ourselves back.

At a minimum, think of the typing we could save ourselves.

Smellyman · December 2014

If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........

Last-12-Exit · December 2014

Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........

JWPearl · December 2014

Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........

Sorry but your nuts, here in Western Australia we have strict firearms in other words it's not allowed and we hardly have any reports of gun violence, it's rare, more knife attacks here

benjs · December 2014

JWPearl said:

show previous quotes
Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........
Sorry but your nuts, here in Western Australia we have strict firearms in other words it's not allowed and we hardly have any reports of gun violence, it's rare, more knife attacks here

That makes sense... I don't think the total number of people with murderous tendencies per population would change too much whether guns are around or not: in America they use firearms to do their damage, where you are they use knives.

rgambs · December 2014

Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........

This must be sarcasm....or smellyman's brain has died and is starting to smell...

benjs · December 2014

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........
This must be sarcasm....or smellyman's brain has died and is starting to smell...

:-&

And here I thought that was me...

JC29856 · December 2014

Tamir Rice and John Crawford OHIO

http://rt.com/usa/193656-guns-walmart-crawford-shooting/

Ohio is open carry...I can walk around Ohio with a real gun and buy lattes while Christmas shopping not because of the law but because Im a WMA.

“Ohio is an ‘open-carry’ state. So even if Crawford were carrying a real, fully loaded rifle, why would that raise any alarms? How could that possibly be a reason to kill him?”

At the time, Green County police responded to a 911 call from another shopper reporting that Crawford was waving a firearm at customers. Police claim Crawford refused to put down his weapon – a toy replica of a rifle – when they approached him. They then shot the 22-year-old twice.

On September 24, an Ohio grand jury declined to indict the two police officers responsible, ruling they had responded appropriately. Shortly after the announcement, surveillance video of the incident was released which seemed to contradict police accounts. Police said in their report that Crawford ignored their numerous orders to drop the rifle before he was shot. However, the video – obtained by the Xenia Daily Gazette – shows Crawford being fired upon seconds after police encounter him.

rgambs · December 2014

JC29856 said:
Tamir Rice and John Crawford OHIO

http://rt.com/usa/193656-guns-walmart-crawford-shooting/

Ohio is open carry...I can walk around Ohio with a real gun and buy lattes while Christmas shopping not because of the law but because Im a WMA.

“Ohio is an ‘open-carry’ state. So even if Crawford were carrying a real, fully loaded rifle, why would that raise any alarms? How could that possibly be a reason to kill him?”

At the time, Green County police responded to a 911 call from another shopper reporting that Crawford was waving a firearm at customers. Police claim Crawford refused to put down his weapon – a toy replica of a rifle – when they approached him. They then shot the 22-year-old twice.

On September 24, an Ohio grand jury declined to indict the two police officers responsible, ruling they had responded appropriately. Shortly after the announcement, surveillance video of the incident was released which seemed to contradict police accounts. Police said in their report that Crawford ignored their numerous orders to drop the rifle before he was shot. However, the video – obtained by the Xenia Daily Gazette – shows Crawford being fired upon seconds after police encounter him.

Video doesn't lie. In either case. Law abiding citizens shot without being given time to do right OR wrong. Is it because they were black? That probably has less to do with why the police shot them, and more to do with why 911 was called in the first place.

benjs · December 2014

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
JC29856 said:
Tamir Rice and John Crawford OHIO

http://rt.com/usa/193656-guns-walmart-crawford-shooting/

Ohio is open carry...I can walk around Ohio with a real gun and buy lattes while Christmas shopping not because of the law but because Im a WMA.

“Ohio is an ‘open-carry’ state. So even if Crawford were carrying a real, fully loaded rifle, why would that raise any alarms? How could that possibly be a reason to kill him?”

At the time, Green County police responded to a 911 call from another shopper reporting that Crawford was waving a firearm at customers. Police claim Crawford refused to put down his weapon – a toy replica of a rifle – when they approached him. They then shot the 22-year-old twice.

On September 24, an Ohio grand jury declined to indict the two police officers responsible, ruling they had responded appropriately. Shortly after the announcement, surveillance video of the incident was released which seemed to contradict police accounts. Police said in their report that Crawford ignored their numerous orders to drop the rifle before he was shot. However, the video – obtained by the Xenia Daily Gazette – shows Crawford being fired upon seconds after police encounter him.
Video doesn't lie. In either case. Law abiding citizens shot without being given time to do right OR wrong. Is it because they were black? That probably has less to do with why the police shot them, and more to do with why 911 was called in the first place.

The bolded sentence is the key point here. We have impartial technology to help gather impartial evidence that we are not taking advantage of - and issues like these show that they aren't outlandish or unnecessary. While most decisions with financial risk are weighed in dollars, for police officers, the opportunity cost of not implementing wearable always-on video cameras is measured in lives, and not dollars.

What's the currency rate between lives and dollars? Maybe I should be specific since it doesn't seem to be consistent: Black lives and dollars? White lives and dollars? American lives and dollars? Iraqi lives and dollars?

JC29856 · December 2014

To thread police
It's in Ohio and its about cops shooting people, then suing people?

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/non-black-cops-suing-dept/#m6dh1BHKFzhwOhKF.99

Smellyman · December 2014

rgambs said:

show previous quotes
Smellyman said:
If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........
This must be sarcasm....or smellyman's brain has died and is starting to smell...

I thought my posting history would make the sarcasm obvious, but I guess I don't post enough anymore.

Since unsung and godfather hadn't chimed in, I thought I would post for them.

Last-12-Exit · December 2014

I'm wondering what protocols were broken here. Was it the dispatcher? Should she tell the officers it could be a toy? If she does, will that effect the officers approach? Did the officer give verbal commands while the car was moving? It doesn't look like he had the time to do it out of the car.

Tamir Rice shooting (12yr old)

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