Tamir Rice shooting (12yr old)

Last-12-Exit

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/28/3597546/officers-who-shot-12-year-old-holding-toy-gun-refused-to-give-him-first-aid/

From I know of this case so far is a woman called 911 complaining of somebody pointing a gun at people in the park. The woman also stated at some point that the could be fake, she didn't know. The dispatcher relayed all of the information given to her by the caller except that the gun could be fake. Upon arrving at the scene, the passenger cop appeared to have shot the boy before he got out of the car. They called in that the suspect, approx 20, was down. The two officers, for some reason, did not give first aid. Aid was eventually administered 4-5 minutes later by an FBI agent and another police officer. The boy was later confirmed dead at the hospital.

Did I miss anything?

rgambs

The only thing you missed was the officers' account. That account says that Rice was told to raise his hands several times (2 or 3?) and reached for the gun instead.

catefrances

The kid was 12 years old.

josevolution

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

catefrances

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

josevolution

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

I know and agree maybe it's time parents start though ..

catefrances

josevolution said:

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

I know and agree maybe it's time parents start though ..

well what a fucked up society we live in that we'd even have to consider such a thing. Not to mention that the onus NOT to be shot is placed on the child rather than on the professional adult whose job is to protect.

deadendp

Last-12-Exit said:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/28/3597546/officers-who-shot-12-year-old-holding-toy-gun-refused-to-give-him-first-aid/

From I know of this case so far is a woman called 911 complaining of somebody pointing a gun at people in the park. The woman also stated at some point that the could be fake, she didn't know. The dispatcher relayed all of the information given to her by the caller except that the gun could be fake. Upon arrving at the scene, the passenger cop appeared to have shot the boy before he got out of the car. They called in that the suspect, approx 20, was down. The two officers, for some reason, did not give first aid. Aid was eventually administered 4-5 minutes later by an FBI agent and another police officer. The boy was later confirmed dead at the hospital.

Did I miss anything?

I agree with rgambs. I live in NE Ohio, so this is all over the news. ((I admit that I've been trying to avoid the news lately.) Apparently, he was playing around with something at his waistband when they/he told him to put his hands up. The Airsoft BB gun that he had, had the orange safety removed from the end. This is why the police officer thought it was a real gun.

There is a lawmaker who is now trying to make it illegal to have BB guns sold in the state of Ohio that look like a regular gun. Word has it that they want them to be brightly colored. Okay, that may be a resolution, but what about all of the previously sold models?

I don't know what the answer is. I just don't. Cleveland Police also shot a few people in their car a couple of years ago because their car backfired and an officer reported hearing a shot. The people weren't armed, but about 50 police cars followed them and filled their car with 130+ bullet holes. The Cleveland Police just settled with the two families for over $3 million. (If I recall my facts correct.)

muskydan

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

Well I sure hope you have that conversion now. Just like the conversation that Mike Browns parents failed to have with their child to not act like a lawless thug after robbing a store.

benjs

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

My parents didn't use those words... But they certainly informed me that guns are incredibly dangerous, and are not welcome in our house. They then informed me that things that LOOK like guns, but are used as toys, make people forget that real guns aren't in fact toys, and explained to me why they're not welcome in our house either. They also mentioned our transit system's law that anything that RESEMBLES a firearm is strictly prohibited on it, and that under any circumstances, to remember that carrying anything that looks like a firearm openly or alluding to the fact that you are armed is completely irresponsible, and can result in serious ramifications. I don't think my age was in double-digits when I was taught this, but I'm turning 25 in a few months and I still remember these things.

So what parents think about this conversation? Mine did. And guess what? It worked.

rgambs

What child hasn't played with a toy gun? And how do you play with a toy gun in a way that makes it evident it's a toy? Such a tragedy.
In Ohio you can legally carry a gun openly in public, but the cops can also shoot you for exercising this legal right. One of those two needs to be changed, and for the sake of safety it makes more sense to change the first.

Gern Blansten

rgambs said:

The only thing you missed was the officers' account. That account says that Rice was told to raise his hands several times (2 or 3?) and reached for the gun instead.

Several times? They shot him as soon as they pulled up

rgambs

Gern Blansten said:

rgambs said:

The only thing you missed was the officers' account. That account says that Rice was told to raise his hands several times (2 or 3?) and reached for the gun instead.

Several times? They shot him as soon as they pulled up

I was simply relaying the officers' side of the story... I too have doubts on the validity of the claim. Could Tamir hear their instructions from inside the car if they were given? Probably but it happened so fast (just like John Crawford) that one has to shake their head.

JC29856

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

Where were the parents of the shooter, wouldn't you tell him about shooting and killing 12 year olds on playgrounds and then what people might think when you kill pre teens and then they to lie about the circumstances

JC29856

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

I know and agree maybe it's time parents start though ..

well what a fucked up society we live in that we'd even have to consider such a thing. Not to mention that the onus NOT to be shot is placed on the child rather than on the professional adult whose job is to protect.

Well said...victim blaming

benjs

JC29856 said:

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

catefrances said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

What parent even thinks about sitting their kid down and saying "listen johnny... if youre ever mucking around with a fake gun please dont wave it around in front of the cops or whatever." As a parent that convrsation would NEVER enter my mind.

I know and agree maybe it's time parents start though ..

well what a fucked up society we live in that we'd even have to consider such a thing. Not to mention that the onus NOT to be shot is placed on the child rather than on the professional adult whose job is to protect.

Well said...victim blaming

1) Woman calls in potential gun threat.
2) 9-1-1 operator omits the part that the gun MAY BE A TOY. Point 1 can therefore be revised to read "Woman calls in gun threat".
3) Police officer knows there's a gun threat. Then sees a person with a gun.

Given these premises, what do you do? I would say taser or mace the potential assailant. If you don't have either, what do you do? Just keep driving? A police officer's job is to "serve and protect".

There are a few ways this scenario could've been avoided:
a) The child could have been briefed properly within his lifetime about the danger of possessing a gun, or anything that could be perceived as a weapon in public. Go figure, people fear things whose primary function is to inflict pain (yes, inflicting pain to inhibit a criminal from attacking is still a subset of inflicting pain).
b) The operator could have properly conveyed ALL information to the police force. Maybe the officer would've exerted an iota of thought process and engaged in conversation within the relatively safe confines of his car, before reaching for a gun in this case.

What disturbs me about all of this is that our judicial system is predicated upon a notion of "innocent until proven guilty". This case seems to be an example of an officer acting in a way suggesting "guilty until proven innocent". Oh, and it's hard to be proven innocent when you're dead and can't give your side of the story.

This is nothing to do with placing blame, it's about fixing larger problems that this and the Wilson/Brown case represent thematic examples of.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.

callen

Though we played cowboys and Indians with cheap chrome plastic finish I would not now purchase guns for my children to play with. Not cause I would be afraid of them getting killed just a bad "toy". Enough violence already.

The gun kid had did shoot projectiles so wasn't so harmless as people walked by and he pointed it at them. Anyone find details on what projectiles?

As with Ferguson case both parties at fault including person that provided the air soft pistol.

muskydan

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.

Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here

JC29856

Where are all these other people in the video that he was pointing a fake gun at? I didn't see any other people around? Why would the car roll up so quickly so closely? Was the car equipped with a PA system? If the shooter was so remorseful why lie about the circumstances? Do cops always get every single detail from 911 calls? Do cops rely exclusively on 911 call information?

Like i said previously, if you want someone dead in Ohio hand them a bb gun and call 911. In both incidents, this one and the Wal-Mart murder cops shoot the black person in less than 2 seconds then reported that they ordered the gun down, subsequent video evidence shows otherwise.

Isn't Ohio an open carry state? Couldn't i walk into a Starbucks and order a latte with a rifle over my shoulder?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

muskydan said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

josevolution said:

Where were the parents of this kid , wouldn't you tell him about pointing the fake gun at people and what people might think ....

In this day and age, it would be wise to have such a conversation. They may have had that conversation- sometimes kids don't listen.

Regardless, this was murder.

I read somewhere the cop was on the sidewalk crying afterwards. Was that this case? If so, I believe the cop was likely crying for his own future instead of the slain youth. If he had truly cared and was trying to right his wrong... he would have administered 1st aid.

Crying for his own future you say?? Ever shot someone? Only someone who has never feared for their life would make a comment like that...

Let me make this clear to all, Cops do not render first aide on scene nor are they required too.. They are required to call for an ambulance immediately. Cops get sued all the time by people for pulling them out of burning vehicles and such for all sorts of BS reasons. Many Police still do it anyways cause most of them are very special people and are trained to go TOWARDS danger and not run AWAY from it like most people would...atleast on here

Of course I've never shot someone.

I have feared for my life though- I was attacked by a guy with a machete. No shit. My head was nearly removed from my body in Costa Rica on the Caribbean coast in a small place called Cahuita (in 1992).

I'm gathering you think this cop was fearing for his life based on what you have written. That's kind of what I had written- so are we agreeing or disagreeing?

I'd admit that I am not in the position to best say what emotions might be coursing through my veins after murdering a 12 year old; however, I'm not so sure it's a stretch to suggest that given the cold depravity we can observe of this situation... the cops didn't really care as much for the kid as they might have themselves. So, my naïve opinion is based on what I can see.

And I don't care what cops are trained to do. If the guy was remotely close to a decent human being... he would have noted that he just blew away a 12 year old playing with a bb gun. As such... you'd think he might feel compelled to try and save the kid as he passes from the Earth.

I've been a proponent of the police from day one on these pages. I think they are awesome. However, let's get serious here: this cop isn't getting enshrined in The Good Cop Thread.