Tamir Rice shooting (12yr old)

callen

We love this gun culture. Well guess what happens more innocent people will die as police are on more edge. Don't blame them. And some call for open carry. Just nuts.

The system is broke. More and more guns is not sustainable. Violent movies, playing cops and robbers is not sustainable. Less and less smart humans will want to be cops. But fuck it all I needs my gun for protection. Humans

oceaninmyeyes

Last-12-Exit said:

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How would a body camera stopped this kid from being killed? At most, it may have prevented the cops from lying when giving their version of the story.

The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.

The system as it currently stands is broken. Because the people in charge of policing the police work with them on a daily basis. And maybe the bias isn't intentional, but it is just too hard to bring someone up on charges when they are the people you depend on to do your job. The problem with DW is the whole he said, he said thing. If we had video of the actual event, we all might be shaking our heads at that too. A body camera might not have prevented this tragedy, but by making the police more aware that there actions are monitored might make them slow down just a little and think. Sadly, this officer should never have been on the job in the first place. The camera didn't stop the shooting in South Carolina either, but the officer responsible for shooting that unarmed man is now awaiting trial.

gimmesometruth27

i read somewhere that the result of this has government considering banning toy guns.

they are gonna ban toy guns, but they are gonna keep the fuckin REAL ones!!!!!

:facepalm:

mickeyrat

And a pellet gun is not a toy.

benjs

oceaninmyeyes said:

Last-12-Exit said:

<
How would a body camera stopped this kid from being killed? At most, it may have prevented the cops from lying when giving their version of the story.

The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.

The system as it currently stands is broken. Because the people in charge of policing the police work with them on a daily basis. And maybe the bias isn't intentional, but it is just too hard to bring someone up on charges when they are the people you depend on to do your job. The problem with DW is the whole he said, he said thing. If we had video of the actual event, we all might be shaking our heads at that too. A body camera might not have prevented this tragedy, but by making the police more aware that there actions are monitored might make them slow down just a little and think. Sadly, this officer should never have been on the job in the first place. The camera didn't stop the shooting in South Carolina either, but the officer responsible for shooting that unarmed man is now awaiting trial.

Well put. If the perception of accountability from the public could lead to an increase in empathy and conscience-driven action or inaction, I'm all for it. I see body cameras as a way to get to that point.

rgambs

mickeyrat said:

And a pellet gun is not a toy.

It was an airsoft gun, which IS a toy. It's designed to be used in war games and to shoot people directly without causing injury. You cant kill a squirrel or a bird with it, and big idiotic babies run around in the woods in Army surplus gear living out juvenile fantasies they culled from the movies.

JC29856

rgambs said:

mickeyrat said:

And a pellet gun is not a toy.

It was an airsoft gun, which IS a toy. It's designed to be used in war games and to shoot people directly without causing injury. You cant kill a squirrel or a bird with it, and big idiotic babies run around in the woods in Army surplus gear living out juvenile fantasies they culled from the movies.

Thanks for the laughs....big idiotic babies in surplus gear!

JC29856

How did the police change their story?

In statements given shortly after the shooting, police officials said that Rice was with a group of boys when he was shot, Cleveland.com reported. Follmer said that Loehmann saw Rice take what looked like a pistol under a table in the park and put it into his waistband.

These statements are inconsistent with the video released by Cleveland police on Nov. 26.

The family's attorney, Timothy Kucharski, confirmed that Rice went with friends to the park on Saturday, but throughout the seven-minute video, Rice is alone. There is no group of boys visible anywhere nearby.

When the police approach Rice, he is standing next to the gazebo, and the gun is not visible. Rice makes no movements to reach under a table when the police arrive or in the seconds before the police car enters the frame. Speaking to BuzzFeed News, Follman said that the Loehmann saw Rice take the gun off the top of the table and put it in his waistband as the police car was driving toward the park. It's possible the gun was on the table. The video is too blurry to confirm or deny this.

The police union also reported that Loehmann asked Rice to raise his hands three times. An official statement from the Cleveland police released on Nov. 23 stated that the officers "advised him to raise his hands," adding "the suspect did not comply with the officers' orders and reached to his waistband for the gun. Shots were fired and the suspect was struck in the torso."

Rice does reach toward his waistband right before he is shot. While it's possible that the officer told Rice to raise his hands three times, Rice is shot within two seconds of the police car arriving on the scene. Follman told BuzzFeed News that Loehmann had shouted the demands from the car as they were driving toward Rice, but the car moves very quickly and pulls up within feet of Rice.

In a press conference on Nov. 24, Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Williams said that the video corroborated the officer's initial description of the shooting, but that they had not yet taken "official statements" from the officers who shot Rice. The police department confirmed to BuzzFeed News that they have now received official statements from the officers, but did not release further details about whether Loehmann and Garmback's stories had changed.

Handout / Reuters
How did the local media cover Rice’s family?

Following the shooting, a series of articles published on Cleveland.com, the online arm of the Cleveland Plain Dealer and Northeast Ohio Media Group, focused on the criminal records of the family. The articles drew a negative response online from many online readers who found the depiction of Rice and his parents unnecessary and offensive.

The first critical article was a story that ran the day after the shooting that confirmed through a spokesperson for the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court that Rice did not have a record at the time of his death.

On the same day, Cleveland.com reported that Kucharski also defended Rice's mother, Samaria Rice, in a drug trafficking case in 2012.

Two days later, on Nov. 26, the site posted a story citing court records that show Rice's father, Leonard Warner, has multiple convictions on domestic violence charges.

Critics found these details irrelevant to the shooting death investigation of Rice and called it character assassination — likening the stories to the criticism against 18-year-old Michael Brown after he was fatally shot by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on Aug. 9.

Chris Quinn, vice president of content for the Northeast Ohio Media Group, defended the organization's coverage in an op-ed article in which he writes, "One way to stop police from killing any more 12-year-olds might be to understand the forces that lead children to undertake behavior that could put them in the sights of police guns."

The Cleveland Plain Dealer's ombudsman Ted Diadiun echoed Quinn's defense in an article titled "Blaming the media -- social and otherwise -- is foolish and fruitless."

Kucharski told BuzzFeed News that he had no update or comment from the family on any of the reports following Rice's death.

"They are just trying to bury and mourn their 12-year-old son right now," Kucharski said.

Aaron Josefczyk / Reuters
What is happening with the investigation?

A deadly force investigation team comprised of homicide detectives, forensic scientists, and members of the Cleveland police department is currently investigating Rice's death.

The team will review the officer's technical tacticals, as well as conducting an overall review of the shooting. Investigators are looking into why the officers drove within feet of Rice, instead of parking at a distance and providing Rice the chance to surrender, a spokesperson for the Cleveland police department confirmed.

The police union defend the decision to approach Rice directly. The officers assumed Rice would run, Follman said. They drove onto the grass as a precautionary tactic. When Rice did not run, Garmback attempted to slow the vehicle but the car slid, Follman said.

Follman additionally defended the decision to shoot immediately, even though Rice was not directly threatening anybody in the park.

"There was nobody else around but we're around, we're people too," Follman said. "The officers had to protect themselves."

Another aspect of the incident that may be investigated is why the officers waited four minutes to begin administering first aid, which Cleveland police confirmed. Case Western Reserve School of Law Professor Lewis R. Katz told BuzzFeed News that the time that passed before the officers began helping Rice was unacceptable. But Follman and the police union don't believe it's unusual or wrong.

"Nothing is 'normal' for us," said Follman. "It's all a case-by-case basis. But there's a lot to be done after an incident like this. You need to call into the radio for help and explain the situation, and make sure the suspect isn't still a danger or has a weapon. It doesn't seem like too long a time."

Once the deadly force investigation team finishes compiling all evidence and taking statements from officers and witnesses, they will file all documents with the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office.

dignin

Tamir Rice's death declared a homicide: autopsy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-s-death-declared-a-homicide-autopsy-1.2871361

callen

Doesn't place fault.

josevolution

i can't get past the fact that this 12 yr old was shot dead like that , my son was 12 once and now he's 21 it breaks my heart that the parents of this boy don't have him around anymore .....

Thirty Bills Unpaid

josevolution said:

i can't get past the fact that this 12 yr old was shot dead like that , my son was 12 once and now he's 21 it breaks my heart that the parents of this boy don't have him around anymore .....

Really tough to think about. Really really tough.

JC29856

Recent days have seen more and more police vocally express their frustrations over continuing protests after the deaths of Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, Tamir Rice in Cleveland, and Eric Garner in New York City. Last week, the International Union of Police Associations complained to the AFL-CIO that the umbrella organization wasn't doing enough to quell rhetoric among other AFL-CIO unions IUPA saw as anti-police. On Tuesday, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolman Union dismissed critics of the Rice shooting, claiming the only lesson to be learned from the incident is "when we tell you to do something, do it." Audio leaked Thursday from a private meeting of New York City police officers a union leader warned "enemies" of the police were in charge in the city.

"The rules are made by them to hurt you," the union leader told assembled officers.

JC29856

On Tuesday, the president of the Cleveland Police Patrolman Union dismissed critics of the Rice shooting, claiming the only lesson to be learned from the incident is "when we tell you to do something, do it."

hedonist

Again, I feel I'm missing something here.

The post above mine is a partial replica of what was above it.

Point? The dismissal of critics or the touted lesson?

And yes, if an officer tells or asks me to do something, fuckin' a I'll comply.

Idris

JC29856 wrote: »

"when we tell you to do something, do it."

Ya, I dont see things getting better anytime soon with people like that around.

JC29856

Sorry, i can't quote says null and i can't edit posts all the time. I only meant to post the shorter snippet.

Anyone who is familiar with the Tamir Rice murder or has watched the video, or has kept track of the ever changing police statements or has heard about the cop that pulled the trigger would probably disagree with the union reps statements. Not to mention that he further shits on Tamir and his family and friends by making such ridiculous statements.

oceaninmyeyes

cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/01/extended_tamir_rice_shooting_v.html Extended video shows handcuffing of Tamir's 14 year old sister as she runs to help her brother. Heart-wrenching

oceaninmyeyes

dailykos.com/story/2015/01/08/1356334/-Cleveland-Fiscal-Manager-cites-killing-of-Tamir-Rice-in-resignation-letter?detail=facebook#

rgambs

http://www.cleveland.com/court-justice/index.ssf/2015/02/city_of_cleveland_responds_to.html

Cleveland is disrespectful of the Rice family.