This morning, the St. Louis Police Department put, on its official Twitter and Facebook accounts, a rambling, weird message to parents of children who play with toy guns—guns like the one 12-year-old Tamir Rice was playing with before an officer rolled up and immediately shot and killed the boy. The message: here are some important safety tips for kids so they don't get themselves shot by a trigger-happy police officer LARPing Rambo.
While some of it could have been written better, I see nothing wrong with the message and intent.
Talk with your children to help keep them and others safe? Crazy!
Some could construe the public service announcement by the STL police department as crazy because in referencing tamir rice in the announcement they are attempting to help keep children safe and others safe from the POLICE.
Some could construe the public service announcement by the STL police department as crazy because in referencing tamir rice in the announcement they are attempting to help keep children safe and others safe from the POLICE.
That would be misconstrued in my opinion. A police officer's job is to "serve and protect". If a police officer perceives a threat, he or she has the right by law to exert his or her force to "serve and protect" if need be. If you can explain to citizens how to avoid a false perception of a threat, and it doesn't infringe any of their rights, why is that such a crazy or outlandish idea?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The point of reference was the tamir rice incident. The false perception of a threat wasn't the reason the kid was killed and it wasn't by citizens! Tamir Rice as i know is a citizen and his rights were infringed upon, he's dead. What are you saying? If a perceived threat is someone carry a real gun in Ohio then change the law or change those who have false perceptions. What are you saying?
Lots of craziness here....kid playing with a gun out in public that looks real....kid not scared to death of cop car pulling up enough to drop gun and hands up even before it gets close....and damn they fired shots so fast!!
No way a cop should fire shots that fast, couldn't even assess the situation. And the sad thing, has they just taken a minute the kid would be alive and we could be having a more productive conversation about how shitty parenting has gotten.
The point of reference was the tamir rice incident. The false perception of a threat wasn't the reason the kid was killed and it wasn't by citizens! Tamir Rice as i know is a citizen and his rights were infringed upon, he's dead. What are you saying? If a perceived threat is someone carry a real gun in Ohio then change the law or change those who have false perceptions. What are you saying?
The false perception of a threat may not have been the reason the kid was killed, but it was at least the justification the cop gave prior to exerting force.
Again, 1) The officer had been told by dispatch that there was someone armed with a gun and brandishing it at people. 2) The officer went to the scene and witnessed someone armed with a gun.
Logic 101 would suggest that the person armed with a gun at the scene is likely the same person who was "brandishing it at people". I've watched the video and I'm not deluded enough to say that the cop acted appropriately: that was a disturbingly heavy-handed response that resulted in a death that shouldn't have been, based on someone's words falsely communicated to the police officer. The officer then naively went in with the full expectation of seeing a guilty and armed person.
What am I saying? What am I saying?
I'm saying that if the police force recognize potential harm to citizens and wish to minimize it, why would anyone call that kind of effort crazy: isn't that what a police force is supposed to do? To expect a sudden shift in police behaviour is naive, it will take tons of time and effort. In the meanwhile, to do nothing at all seems less than reasonable. Telling people to make sure that a fake gun is OBVIOUSLY fake can cause no harm.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The point of reference was the tamir rice incident. The false perception of a threat wasn't the reason the kid was killed and it wasn't by citizens! Tamir Rice as i know is a citizen and his rights were infringed upon, he's dead. What are you saying? If a perceived threat is someone carry a real gun in Ohio then change the law or change those who have false perceptions. What are you saying?
The false perception of a threat may not have been the reason the kid was killed, but it was at least the justification the cop gave prior to exerting force.
Again, 1) The officer had been told by dispatch that there was someone armed with a gun and brandishing it at people. 2) The officer went to the scene and witnessed someone armed with a gun.
Logic 101 would suggest that the person armed with a gun at the scene is likely the same person who was "brandishing it at people". I've watched the video and I'm not deluded enough to say that the cop acted appropriately: that was a disturbingly heavy-handed response that resulted in a death that shouldn't have been, based on someone's words falsely communicated to the police officer. The officer then naively went in with the full expectation of seeing a guilty and armed person.
What am I saying? What am I saying?
I'm saying that if the police force recognize potential harm to citizens and wish to minimize it, why would anyone call that kind of effort crazy: isn't that what a police force is supposed to do? To expect a sudden shift in police behaviour is naive, it will take tons of time and effort. In the meanwhile, to do nothing at all seems less than reasonable. Telling people to make sure that a fake gun is OBVIOUSLY fake can cause no harm.
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
You remind me of my wife. One thing is said, you hear something completely different. I kid. It nay be legal to carry, it is not legal to point one at people.
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
You remind me of my wife. One thing is said, you hear something completely different. I kid. It nay be legal to carry, it is not legal to point one at people.
Explain what was said...maybe another perspective would help. I heard that people shouldn't misconstrue written words but the cop can perceive people that aren't actually there.
0
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,199
Please don't be surprised that they won't be any indictment for this incident much less a firing of the officer involved shooting. That's just the way it is in this country.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
isnt there a differnece here in your terms? To brandish means to have in hand does it not? Open carry suggests worn in a holster on the hip . Not to mention the ease of CCW here in ohio with some of the most lax laws in regards to purchase ,resale etc......
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
You remind me of my wife. One thing is said, you hear something completely different. I kid. It nay be legal to carry, it is not legal to point one at people.
Explain what was said...maybe another perspective would help. I heard that people shouldn't misconstrue written words but the cop can perceive people that aren't actually there.
Yes, a cop can perceive people that aren't actually there when the system - which he's trained to trust - has told him they were there. It's called following trusted information. People with common sense, when witnessing a person waving a gun around, might have some tendencies to walk away, leaving said armed person with the gun, and none other around. If we only acted on things we witnessed with our own pair of eyes (as opposed to taking someone else we trust's word for it), several historical genocides which required external intervention to stop likely would still be occurring. Or, worse, completed. Of course, on the converse, American interventionism in the Middle East is a great example of the danger of following trusted information blindly, but that's because clearly we are too trusting when it comes to our government and police force's intentions, but that's not what we're discussing here, is it?
You seem to think I'm denying a problem. I'm not. I was incredibly clear about that in my comment about the officer's outrageously heavy-handed response based on limited and insufficient information. But if we're going to continue with the topic at hand (the police force's tweet), we're discussing the value of informing the public about the significance of ensuring that fake weaponry is clearly perceptible as fake weaponry, with the goal of ensuring non-malicious intent and conveying that to authorities clearly. Personally, I have zero problem with a tweet with that purpose.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Warn them that these 'toys' do look like real guns and could result in the police getting called on them. The police may get called to respond to 'a child with a gun,' 'maybe a toy gun,' it is important to know how officers are trained to respond," the message said, adding advice for children to follow if they are confronted by police.
MAYBE ITS POLICE TRAINING NOT KIDS PLAYING?
Thursday afternoon, Chief Jon Belmar issued a statement acknowledging the post was "a misguided communication strategy and was offensive to many people."
Belmar went on to call the message "insensitive to Tamir's family and the sorrow they are currently experiencing."
"The post conveyed the message that my officers respond to calls involving a child with a gun with indiscretion and little regard for life," Belmar said. "I want to emphasize that my officers respond to calls with discernment, and have the highest regard for human life. We train officers to take all facts and circumstances into consideration when making decisions about using force."
After a scathing Department of Justice report released yesterday that said police in Cleveland are poorly trained and act recklessly , accusations that sheriff’s deputies used racial slurs in text messages in Montgomery County, and unrest across the country , Gov. John Kasich announced plans last night to create a new task force that “will listen to Ohio’s communities, research best practices and make recommendations to state and local policy makers on improving community-police relations."
According to the release, Kasich will be joined at noon today by Attorney General Mike DeWine, Sen. Nina Turner, D-Cleveland, Rep. Sandra Williams, D-Cleveland, Rep. Alicia Reece, D-Cincinnati, Director of Public Safety John Born, and Director of Department of Jobs and Family Services Cynthia Dungey.
The DOJ report came out as investigations continue into the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice who had an air pistol when he was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer recently .
The report made national headlines yesterday:
CNN: Justice Dept.: Cleveland police has pattern of excessive force New York Times: Cleveland Police cited for abuse by Justice Department Washington Post: Cleveland police have pattern of abuse, DOJ finds Northeast Ohio Media Group: Cleveland police regularly draw, shoot guns unreasonably, states report
According to an Associated Press report, “Officers’ excessive use of force has created deep mistrust in Cleveland, especially in the black community, the report concluded.”
Earlier this year, John Crawford was shot and killed by police in Beavercreek, Ohio, while he carried a pellet gun in a WalMart. A grand jury did not indicted the officer who fired the shots. The DOJ is investigating the incident.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Because the cops didn't yet have a corpse to handcuff, they decided to handcuff the next best thing, Tamirs 14 year old sister. Mom said she didn't know what to do go with her dying son or stay with her distraught daughter.
Ironically Tamir was playing cops and robbers, it's unclear thou which one he was.
I get now in your opinion people shouldn't/can't miscontrue what a police department is tweeting about with the title Kids will be kids? but the cop can perceive something different than what his own eyes actually show him in a state where it's perfectly legal to openly carry a gun.
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
You remind me of my wife. One thing is said, you hear something completely different. I kid. It nay be legal to carry, it is not legal to point one at people.
As rgambs stated: Video doesn't lie. Officers need to be wearing body cameras. People aren't going to be able to stomach this kind of behavior when they can see it unfold on video. Because police work so closely with the DA's offices by nature of their work, the DA's often choose to look the other way when so plainly that should not be done. Maybe special prosecutor's need to be called in for all police shootings. Clearly the present system is broken.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
As rgambs stated: Video doesn't lie. Officers need to be wearing body cameras. People aren't going to be able to stomach this kind of behavior when they can see it unfold on video. Because police work so closely with the DA's offices by nature of their work, the DA's often choose to look the other way when so plainly that should not be done. Maybe special prosecutor's need to be called in for all police shootings. Clearly the present system is broken.
How would a body camera stopped this kid from being killed? At most, it may have prevented the cops from lying when giving their version of the story.
The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.
We love this gun culture. Well guess what happens more innocent people will die as police are on more edge. Don't blame them. And some call for open carry. Just nuts.
The system is broke. More and more guns is not sustainable. Violent movies, playing cops and robbers is not sustainable. Less and less smart humans will want to be cops. But fuck it all I needs my gun for protection. Humans
< How would a body camera stopped this kid from being killed? At most, it may have prevented the cops from lying when giving their version of the story.
The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.
The system as it currently stands is broken. Because the people in charge of policing the police work with them on a daily basis. And maybe the bias isn't intentional, but it is just too hard to bring someone up on charges when they are the people you depend on to do your job. The problem with DW is the whole he said, he said thing. If we had video of the actual event, we all might be shaking our heads at that too. A body camera might not have prevented this tragedy, but by making the police more aware that there actions are monitored might make them slow down just a little and think. Sadly, this officer should never have been on the job in the first place. The camera didn't stop the shooting in South Carolina either, but the officer responsible for shooting that unarmed man is now awaiting trial.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
< How would a body camera stopped this kid from being killed? At most, it may have prevented the cops from lying when giving their version of the story.
The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.
The system as it currently stands is broken. Because the people in charge of policing the police work with them on a daily basis. And maybe the bias isn't intentional, but it is just too hard to bring someone up on charges when they are the people you depend on to do your job. The problem with DW is the whole he said, he said thing. If we had video of the actual event, we all might be shaking our heads at that too. A body camera might not have prevented this tragedy, but by making the police more aware that there actions are monitored might make them slow down just a little and think. Sadly, this officer should never have been on the job in the first place. The camera didn't stop the shooting in South Carolina either, but the officer responsible for shooting that unarmed man is now awaiting trial.
Well put. If the perception of accountability from the public could lead to an increase in empathy and conscience-driven action or inaction, I'm all for it. I see body cameras as a way to get to that point.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It was an airsoft gun, which IS a toy. It's designed to be used in war games and to shoot people directly without causing injury. You cant kill a squirrel or a bird with it, and big idiotic babies run around in the woods in Army surplus gear living out juvenile fantasies they culled from the movies.
It was an airsoft gun, which IS a toy. It's designed to be used in war games and to shoot people directly without causing injury. You cant kill a squirrel or a bird with it, and big idiotic babies run around in the woods in Army surplus gear living out juvenile fantasies they culled from the movies.
Thanks for the laughs....big idiotic babies in surplus gear!
In statements given shortly after the shooting, police officials said that Rice was with a group of boys when he was shot, Cleveland.com reported. Follmer said that Loehmann saw Rice take what looked like a pistol under a table in the park and put it into his waistband.
These statements are inconsistent with the video released by Cleveland police on Nov. 26.
The family's attorney, Timothy Kucharski, confirmed that Rice went with friends to the park on Saturday, but throughout the seven-minute video, Rice is alone. There is no group of boys visible anywhere nearby.
When the police approach Rice, he is standing next to the gazebo, and the gun is not visible. Rice makes no movements to reach under a table when the police arrive or in the seconds before the police car enters the frame. Speaking to BuzzFeed News, Follman said that the Loehmann saw Rice take the gun off the top of the table and put it in his waistband as the police car was driving toward the park. It's possible the gun was on the table. The video is too blurry to confirm or deny this.
The police union also reported that Loehmann asked Rice to raise his hands three times. An official statement from the Cleveland police released on Nov. 23 stated that the officers "advised him to raise his hands," adding "the suspect did not comply with the officers' orders and reached to his waistband for the gun. Shots were fired and the suspect was struck in the torso."
Rice does reach toward his waistband right before he is shot. While it's possible that the officer told Rice to raise his hands three times, Rice is shot within two seconds of the police car arriving on the scene. Follman told BuzzFeed News that Loehmann had shouted the demands from the car as they were driving toward Rice, but the car moves very quickly and pulls up within feet of Rice.
In a press conference on Nov. 24, Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Williams said that the video corroborated the officer's initial description of the shooting, but that they had not yet taken "official statements" from the officers who shot Rice. The police department confirmed to BuzzFeed News that they have now received official statements from the officers, but did not release further details about whether Loehmann and Garmback's stories had changed.
Handout / Reuters How did the local media cover Rice’s family?
Following the shooting, a series of articles published on Cleveland.com, the online arm of the Cleveland Plain Dealer and Northeast Ohio Media Group, focused on the criminal records of the family. The articles drew a negative response online from many online readers who found the depiction of Rice and his parents unnecessary and offensive.
The first critical article was a story that ran the day after the shooting that confirmed through a spokesperson for the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court that Rice did not have a record at the time of his death.
On the same day, Cleveland.com reported that Kucharski also defended Rice's mother, Samaria Rice, in a drug trafficking case in 2012.
Two days later, on Nov. 26, the site posted a story citing court records that show Rice's father, Leonard Warner, has multiple convictions on domestic violence charges.
Critics found these details irrelevant to the shooting death investigation of Rice and called it character assassination — likening the stories to the criticism against 18-year-old Michael Brown after he was fatally shot by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on Aug. 9.
Chris Quinn, vice president of content for the Northeast Ohio Media Group, defended the organization's coverage in an op-ed article in which he writes, "One way to stop police from killing any more 12-year-olds might be to understand the forces that lead children to undertake behavior that could put them in the sights of police guns."
The Cleveland Plain Dealer's ombudsman Ted Diadiun echoed Quinn's defense in an article titled "Blaming the media -- social and otherwise -- is foolish and fruitless."
Kucharski told BuzzFeed News that he had no update or comment from the family on any of the reports following Rice's death.
"They are just trying to bury and mourn their 12-year-old son right now," Kucharski said.
Aaron Josefczyk / Reuters What is happening with the investigation?
A deadly force investigation team comprised of homicide detectives, forensic scientists, and members of the Cleveland police department is currently investigating Rice's death.
The team will review the officer's technical tacticals, as well as conducting an overall review of the shooting. Investigators are looking into why the officers drove within feet of Rice, instead of parking at a distance and providing Rice the chance to surrender, a spokesperson for the Cleveland police department confirmed.
The police union defend the decision to approach Rice directly. The officers assumed Rice would run, Follman said. They drove onto the grass as a precautionary tactic. When Rice did not run, Garmback attempted to slow the vehicle but the car slid, Follman said.
Follman additionally defended the decision to shoot immediately, even though Rice was not directly threatening anybody in the park.
"There was nobody else around but we're around, we're people too," Follman said. "The officers had to protect themselves."
Another aspect of the incident that may be investigated is why the officers waited four minutes to begin administering first aid, which Cleveland police confirmed. Case Western Reserve School of Law Professor Lewis R. Katz told BuzzFeed News that the time that passed before the officers began helping Rice was unacceptable. But Follman and the police union don't believe it's unusual or wrong.
"Nothing is 'normal' for us," said Follman. "It's all a case-by-case basis. But there's a lot to be done after an incident like this. You need to call into the radio for help and explain the situation, and make sure the suspect isn't still a danger or has a weapon. It doesn't seem like too long a time."
Once the deadly force investigation team finishes compiling all evidence and taking statements from officers and witnesses, they will file all documents with the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office.
Comments
Talk with your children to help keep them and others safe? Crazy!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
The false perception of a threat wasn't the reason the kid was killed and it wasn't by citizens!
Tamir Rice as i know is a citizen and his rights were infringed upon, he's dead.
What are you saying?
If a perceived threat is someone carry a real gun in Ohio then change the law or change those who have false perceptions.
What are you saying?
No way a cop should fire shots that fast, couldn't even assess the situation. And the sad thing, has they just taken a minute the kid would be alive and we could be having a more productive conversation about how shitty parenting has gotten.
Again,
1) The officer had been told by dispatch that there was someone armed with a gun and brandishing it at people.
2) The officer went to the scene and witnessed someone armed with a gun.
Logic 101 would suggest that the person armed with a gun at the scene is likely the same person who was "brandishing it at people". I've watched the video and I'm not deluded enough to say that the cop acted appropriately: that was a disturbingly heavy-handed response that resulted in a death that shouldn't have been, based on someone's words falsely communicated to the police officer. The officer then naively went in with the full expectation of seeing a guilty and armed person.
What am I saying?
What am I saying?
I'm saying that if the police force recognize potential harm to citizens and wish to minimize it, why would anyone call that kind of effort crazy: isn't that what a police force is supposed to do? To expect a sudden shift in police behaviour is naive, it will take tons of time and effort. In the meanwhile, to do nothing at all seems less than reasonable. Telling people to make sure that a fake gun is OBVIOUSLY fake can cause no harm.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Logic 101 says that in order to perceive a threat to other people and in order to brandish a gun at other people, real other people must be present.
I heard that people shouldn't misconstrue written words but the cop can perceive people that aren't actually there.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
To brandish means to have in hand does it not?
Open carry suggests worn in a holster on the hip
. Not to mention the ease of CCW here in ohio with some of the most lax laws in regards to purchase ,resale etc......
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
You seem to think I'm denying a problem. I'm not. I was incredibly clear about that in my comment about the officer's outrageously heavy-handed response based on limited and insufficient information. But if we're going to continue with the topic at hand (the police force's tweet), we're discussing the value of informing the public about the significance of ensuring that fake weaponry is clearly perceptible as fake weaponry, with the goal of ensuring non-malicious intent and conveying that to authorities clearly. Personally, I have zero problem with a tweet with that purpose.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"Warn them that these 'toys' do look like real guns and could result in the police getting called on them. The police may get called to respond to 'a child with a gun,' 'maybe a toy gun,' it is important to know how officers are trained to respond," the message said, adding advice for children to follow if they are confronted by police.
MAYBE ITS POLICE TRAINING NOT KIDS PLAYING?
Thursday afternoon, Chief Jon Belmar issued a statement acknowledging the post was "a misguided communication strategy and was offensive to many people."
Belmar went on to call the message "insensitive to Tamir's family and the sorrow they are currently experiencing."
"The post conveyed the message that my officers respond to calls involving a child with a gun with indiscretion and little regard for life," Belmar said. "I want to emphasize that my officers respond to calls with discernment, and have the highest regard for human life. We train officers to take all facts and circumstances into consideration when making decisions about using force."
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/12/05/ohio-politics-now-kasich-creating-task-force.html
A look at what is happening in Ohio politics:
After a scathing Department of Justice report released yesterday that said police in Cleveland are poorly trained and act recklessly , accusations that sheriff’s deputies used racial slurs in text messages in Montgomery County, and unrest across the country , Gov. John Kasich announced plans last night to create a new task force that “will listen to Ohio’s communities, research best practices and make recommendations to state and local policy makers on improving community-police relations."
According to the release, Kasich will be joined at noon today by Attorney General Mike DeWine, Sen. Nina Turner, D-Cleveland, Rep. Sandra Williams, D-Cleveland, Rep. Alicia Reece, D-Cincinnati, Director of Public Safety John Born, and Director of Department of Jobs and Family Services Cynthia Dungey.
The DOJ report came out as investigations continue into the death of 12-year-old Tamir Rice who had an air pistol when he was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer recently .
The report made national headlines yesterday:
CNN: Justice Dept.: Cleveland police has pattern of excessive force
New York Times: Cleveland Police cited for abuse by Justice Department
Washington Post: Cleveland police have pattern of abuse, DOJ finds
Northeast Ohio Media Group: Cleveland police regularly draw, shoot guns unreasonably, states report
According to an Associated Press report, “Officers’ excessive use of force has created deep mistrust in Cleveland, especially in the black community, the report concluded.”
Earlier this year, John Crawford was shot and killed by police in Beavercreek, Ohio, while he carried a pellet gun in a WalMart. A grand jury did not indicted the officer who fired the shots. The DOJ is investigating the incident.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Mom said she didn't know what to do go with her dying son or stay with her distraught daughter.
Ironically Tamir was playing cops and robbers, it's unclear thou which one he was.
The system itself is not broken. The people in the place to run the system are the problem. I personally don't think DW should have been indicted anyway. The cops in New York definitely should have been. I'm conflicted with the Tamir Rice case because the did have what appeared to be a real gun to those cops. The information that was given to them was there was a guy in the park flashing a gun. Should they have gotten out of the car guns blazing? I doubt it, but I wasn't there and the video doesn't have sound so we don't know what, if anything was said.
The system is broke. More and more guns is not sustainable. Violent movies, playing cops and robbers is not sustainable. Less and less smart humans will want to be cops. But fuck it all I needs my gun for protection. Humans
they are gonna ban toy guns, but they are gonna keep the fuckin REAL ones!!!!!
:facepalm:
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
In statements given shortly after the shooting, police officials said that Rice was with a group of boys when he was shot, Cleveland.com reported. Follmer said that Loehmann saw Rice take what looked like a pistol under a table in the park and put it into his waistband.
These statements are inconsistent with the video released by Cleveland police on Nov. 26.
The family's attorney, Timothy Kucharski, confirmed that Rice went with friends to the park on Saturday, but throughout the seven-minute video, Rice is alone. There is no group of boys visible anywhere nearby.
When the police approach Rice, he is standing next to the gazebo, and the gun is not visible. Rice makes no movements to reach under a table when the police arrive or in the seconds before the police car enters the frame. Speaking to BuzzFeed News, Follman said that the Loehmann saw Rice take the gun off the top of the table and put it in his waistband as the police car was driving toward the park. It's possible the gun was on the table. The video is too blurry to confirm or deny this.
The police union also reported that Loehmann asked Rice to raise his hands three times. An official statement from the Cleveland police released on Nov. 23 stated that the officers "advised him to raise his hands," adding "the suspect did not comply with the officers' orders and reached to his waistband for the gun. Shots were fired and the suspect was struck in the torso."
Rice does reach toward his waistband right before he is shot. While it's possible that the officer told Rice to raise his hands three times, Rice is shot within two seconds of the police car arriving on the scene. Follman told BuzzFeed News that Loehmann had shouted the demands from the car as they were driving toward Rice, but the car moves very quickly and pulls up within feet of Rice.
In a press conference on Nov. 24, Cleveland Police Chief Calvin Williams said that the video corroborated the officer's initial description of the shooting, but that they had not yet taken "official statements" from the officers who shot Rice. The police department confirmed to BuzzFeed News that they have now received official statements from the officers, but did not release further details about whether Loehmann and Garmback's stories had changed.
Handout / Reuters
How did the local media cover Rice’s family?
Following the shooting, a series of articles published on Cleveland.com, the online arm of the Cleveland Plain Dealer and Northeast Ohio Media Group, focused on the criminal records of the family. The articles drew a negative response online from many online readers who found the depiction of Rice and his parents unnecessary and offensive.
The first critical article was a story that ran the day after the shooting that confirmed through a spokesperson for the Cuyahoga County Juvenile Court that Rice did not have a record at the time of his death.
On the same day, Cleveland.com reported that Kucharski also defended Rice's mother, Samaria Rice, in a drug trafficking case in 2012.
Two days later, on Nov. 26, the site posted a story citing court records that show Rice's father, Leonard Warner, has multiple convictions on domestic violence charges.
Critics found these details irrelevant to the shooting death investigation of Rice and called it character assassination — likening the stories to the criticism against 18-year-old Michael Brown after he was fatally shot by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri, on Aug. 9.
Chris Quinn, vice president of content for the Northeast Ohio Media Group, defended the organization's coverage in an op-ed article in which he writes, "One way to stop police from killing any more 12-year-olds might be to understand the forces that lead children to undertake behavior that could put them in the sights of police guns."
The Cleveland Plain Dealer's ombudsman Ted Diadiun echoed Quinn's defense in an article titled "Blaming the media -- social and otherwise -- is foolish and fruitless."
Kucharski told BuzzFeed News that he had no update or comment from the family on any of the reports following Rice's death.
"They are just trying to bury and mourn their 12-year-old son right now," Kucharski said.
Aaron Josefczyk / Reuters
What is happening with the investigation?
A deadly force investigation team comprised of homicide detectives, forensic scientists, and members of the Cleveland police department is currently investigating Rice's death.
The team will review the officer's technical tacticals, as well as conducting an overall review of the shooting. Investigators are looking into why the officers drove within feet of Rice, instead of parking at a distance and providing Rice the chance to surrender, a spokesperson for the Cleveland police department confirmed.
The police union defend the decision to approach Rice directly. The officers assumed Rice would run, Follman said. They drove onto the grass as a precautionary tactic. When Rice did not run, Garmback attempted to slow the vehicle but the car slid, Follman said.
Follman additionally defended the decision to shoot immediately, even though Rice was not directly threatening anybody in the park.
"There was nobody else around but we're around, we're people too," Follman said. "The officers had to protect themselves."
Another aspect of the incident that may be investigated is why the officers waited four minutes to begin administering first aid, which Cleveland police confirmed. Case Western Reserve School of Law Professor Lewis R. Katz told BuzzFeed News that the time that passed before the officers began helping Rice was unacceptable. But Follman and the police union don't believe it's unusual or wrong.
"Nothing is 'normal' for us," said Follman. "It's all a case-by-case basis. But there's a lot to be done after an incident like this. You need to call into the radio for help and explain the situation, and make sure the suspect isn't still a danger or has a weapon. It doesn't seem like too long a time."
Once the deadly force investigation team finishes compiling all evidence and taking statements from officers and witnesses, they will file all documents with the Cuyahoga County Prosecutor's office.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/tamir-rice-s-death-declared-a-homicide-autopsy-1.2871361