Tamir Rice shooting (12yr old)

rgambs

Smellyman said:

rgambs said:

Smellyman said:

If there were more guns on the streets less incidents like this would happen........

This must be sarcasm....or smellyman's brain has died and is starting to smell...

I thought my posting history would make the sarcasm obvious, but I guess I don't post enough anymore.

Since unsung and godfather hadn't chimed in, I thought I would post for them.

I never noticed your avatar before...awesomeness!!

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm wondering what protocols were broken here. Was it the dispatcher? Should she tell the officers it could be a toy? If she does, will that effect the officers approach? Did the officer give verbal commands while the car was moving? It doesn't look like he had the time to do it out of the car.

Yeah I'd like to know as well. If protocol was followed, perhaps it should be adjusted a bit to avoid this sort of tragedy.

Last-12-Exit

Even giving the police the benefit of the doubt with the information they had going in, you have to think they thought the hun was real. When the cops called for a medic, they claimed the victim to be about 20. Does that kid look older than his age? I'm not sure you can say they should have used a taser or mace in a gun fight. This is definitely a different situation all together than the Brown case. I will be very interested in seeing how this plays out.

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

Even giving the police the benefit of the doubt with the information they had going in, you have to think they thought the hun was real. When the cops called for a medic, they claimed the victim to be about 20. Does that kid look older than his age? I'm not sure you can say they should have used a taser or mace in a gun fight. This is definitely a different situation all together than the Brown case. I will be very interested in seeing how this plays out.

Yeah, I fully expect there to be no indictment, not enough media traction.

Gern Blansten

This was just horrible police work. I don't see an indictment either but the attempted cover up is kind of disturbing.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

This was just horrible police work. I don't see an indictment either but the attempted cover up is kind of disturbing.

People have rallied around the Brown case, yet this one- so clear in my mind with video footage (albeit poor) and a story that simply cannot justify the shooting- begs for an indictment.

Gern Blansten

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

This was just horrible police work. I don't see an indictment either but the attempted cover up is kind of disturbing.

People have rallied around the Brown case, yet this one- so clear in my mind with video footage (albeit poor) and a story that simply cannot justify the shooting- begs for an indictment.

The shooting definitely isn't justified but the cop most likely thought he was taking out a possible shooter. He was a rookie that panicked....he most likely won't serve again but I don't see it being criminal.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

This was just horrible police work. I don't see an indictment either but the attempted cover up is kind of disturbing.

People have rallied around the Brown case, yet this one- so clear in my mind with video footage (albeit poor) and a story that simply cannot justify the shooting- begs for an indictment.

The shooting definitely isn't justified but the cop most likely thought he was taking out a possible shooter. He was a rookie that panicked....he most likely won't serve again but I don't see it being criminal.

You might be right. This may be a case of sheer incompetence. Brutal regardless.

Gern Blansten

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Gern Blansten said:

This was just horrible police work. I don't see an indictment either but the attempted cover up is kind of disturbing.

People have rallied around the Brown case, yet this one- so clear in my mind with video footage (albeit poor) and a story that simply cannot justify the shooting- begs for an indictment.

The shooting definitely isn't justified but the cop most likely thought he was taking out a possible shooter. He was a rookie that panicked....he most likely won't serve again but I don't see it being criminal.

You might be right. This may be a case of sheer incompetence. Brutal regardless.

Very....but it (in my opinion) still points out our ridiculous gun culture. We allow people to open carry (Ohio is an open carry state) yet we freak out when we see people with guns. This is exactly why the majority of police chiefs aren't in favor of this crap....they don't know who the bad guys are anymore.

JC29856

Not knowing that a camera recorded the entire incident, the police told what appear to be at least five lies about what happened.

1. Police said that Tamir Rice was seated at a table with other people.

2. Police said that as they pulled up, they saw Tamir Rice grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police said they got out of the car and told Tamir Rice three times to put his hands up but he refused.

4. Police said that Tamir Rice then reached into his waistband and pulled out the gun, and was then shot and killed by Officer Timothy Loehmann.

5. Timothy Loehmann was described as a rookie.


http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/02/1348833/-Tamir-Rice-The-story-behind-the-execution-character-assassination-coverup-of-a-senseless-murder#

JC29856

1. Tamir Rice was not seated at a table with other people.

2. Tamir Rice does not appear to grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police shot and killed Tamir in less than two seconds and could not have told him to put his hands up three times.

4. Tamir Rice absolutely does not pull the air gun out of his waistband and brandish it in any way. This fact is so crucial.

5. Timothy Loehmann was not a rookie, but had been an officer for over two years.

JC29856

Tamir was buried today.
The officer Timothy Loehmann was ruled unfit for police service 2 years prior to killing Rice.
His handgun performance was dismal, he often became distracted and weepy and in communicative, chief Jim Polak of Independence Ohio.
Two weeks after a recommendation to release Loehmann of his duties, he resigned.
In March of 2014 Cleveland PD hired Loehmann. The rest for Tamir Rice is history.

JC29856

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/03/officer-who-fatally-shot-tamir-rice-had-been-judged-unfit?CMP=share_btn_tw

JC29856

CMTSU

“During a state range qualification course, Ptl Loehmann was distracted and weepy,” Polak wrote, naming the trainer as Sgt Tinnirello. “[Loehmann] could not follow simple directions, could not communicate clear thoughts nor recollections, and his handgun performance was dismal. Sgt Tinnirello tried to work through this with Ptl Loehmann by giving him some time. But, after some talking it was clear to Sgt Tinnirello that the recruit was just not mentally prepared to be doing firearm training. ...

“Ptl. Loehmann continued with his emotional meltdown to a point where Sgt. Tinnirello could not take him into the store, so they went to get something to eat and he continued to try and calm Ptl Loehmann. Sgt Tinnirello describes the recruit as being very downtrodden, melancholy with some light crying. Sgt. Tinnirello later found this emotional perplexity was due to a personal issue with Ptl. Loehmann’s on and off again girlfriend whom he was dealing with till 0400 hrs the night before. (Pti. Loehmann was scheduled for 0800 the morning in question).

mickeyrat

JC29856 said:

1. Tamir Rice was not seated at a table with other people.

2. Tamir Rice does not appear to grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police shot and killed Tamir in less than two seconds and could not have told him to put his hands up three times.

4. Tamir Rice absolutely does not pull the air gun out of his waistband and brandish it in any way. This fact is so crucial.

5. Timothy Loehmann was not a rookie, but had been an officer for over two years.

#5 how was he not considered a rookie still? Resigned a position in the midst of training in dec '12.
Not hired by Cleveland until march of this year. What was he doing in between for those year and 3 months? Further at the time of this tragedy , he had only been on the force all of 7 months give or take a week or two? Riding with a field training officer? Do nonrookie officers ride that long with training officers?

Keep it honest man.

Last-12-Exit

mickeyrat said:

JC29856 said:

1. Tamir Rice was not seated at a table with other people.

2. Tamir Rice does not appear to grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police shot and killed Tamir in less than two seconds and could not have told him to put his hands up three times.

4. Tamir Rice absolutely does not pull the air gun out of his waistband and brandish it in any way. This fact is so crucial.

5. Timothy Loehmann was not a rookie, but had been an officer for over two years.

#5 how was he not considered a rookie still? Resigned a position in the midst of training in dec '12.
Not hired by Cleveland until march of this year. What was he doing in between for those year and 3 months? Further at the time of this tragedy , he had only been on the force all of 7 months give or take a week or two? Riding with a field training officer? Do nonrookie officers ride that long with training officers?

Keep it honest man.

In the fire service, you could be considered a probie for years if no new guys are hired into your house. But I think for police, you are considered a rookie for a year. I'm not 100% about that. Either way, 1/5 doesn't look good for him. But that cop in NYC didn't get indicted, I can't see how they will indict this guy. The Ferguson case aside (because I think Wilson did NOT commit a crime), the police are literally getting away with murder.

JC29856

mickeyrat said:

JC29856 said:

1. Tamir Rice was not seated at a table with other people.

2. Tamir Rice does not appear to grab the gun and put it in his waistband.

3. Police shot and killed Tamir in less than two seconds and could not have told him to put his hands up three times.

4. Tamir Rice absolutely does not pull the air gun out of his waistband and brandish it in any way. This fact is so crucial.

5. Timothy Loehmann was not a rookie, but had been an officer for over two years.

#5 how was he not considered a rookie still? Resigned a position in the midst of training in dec '12.
Not hired by Cleveland until march of this year. What was he doing in between for those year and 3 months? Further at the time of this tragedy , he had only been on the force all of 7 months give or take a week or two? Riding with a field training officer? Do nonrookie officers ride that long with training officers?

Keep it honest man.

That's from the kos article above...they don't say what he did in between independence and Cleveland. I'm assuming he patrolled somewhere. I'm sure it will be disclosed at some point, either way Ill post.

JC29856

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Andy_Lopez

deadendp

This was on the local news this morning:

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/local-news/investigations/timothy-loehmanns-personnel-file-reveals-problems-with-maturty-emotional-meltdown-incident

JC29856

why is the St Louis PD tweeting about tamir rice?


http://jezebel.com/st-louis-pd-posts-tips-to-keep-your-kids-from-getting-1666683225
"your children should have rules for toys gun"
your officers should have rules for real guns!

This morning, the St. Louis Police Department put, on its official Twitter and Facebook accounts, a rambling, weird message to parents of children who play with toy guns—guns like the one 12-year-old Tamir Rice was playing with before an officer rolled up and immediately shot and killed the boy. The message: here are some important safety tips for kids so they don't get themselves shot by a trigger-happy police officer LARPing Rambo.